Who do you think is gonna be top tier in SSBU?

[criticalhit1992]

Do y'all think Bayo and Cloud are gonna dominate the scene again? Or do you see someone else coming up to take a spot?

 

[Jetsurge]

Dixie Kong

 

[Deleted member]

Top ten
of course

because its Mario
speed plus final smash buff yes please
no escape this will be boss
must love the hitbox and some speed to
brawl flashbacks
Greninja on steroids
those tools are going to come in handy
it's one of my most used I can't not included it but it does have some very good combo potential

 

[Spinosaurus]

Way, way too early. Bayonetta and Cloud aren't even anywhere as good now, I wish people would stop saying that they are.

The only one that looks nutty from the E3 build for now is Ryu, but that's from theorizing based on how potentially silly the 1v1 and aerial cancel changes are.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I'm scared of what can do since his recovery's been buffed.

 

[Zinith]

God, I wish I knew more about Yoshi. I want to say he could be top tier so badly...

 

[Deleted member]

I'm scared of what can do since his recovery's been buffed.

It has? Yesssss!!!

 

[Sayabi]

I think (and hope) Bayo and Cloud are getting nerfs. I'm more worried about Inkling though, she seems super powerful if you take the advantage on the terrain.

 

[Zerp]

His n-air has better combo ability now (it's like Mewtwo's n-air) and his d-air can meteor now, he was buffed (source). Also, , she's mostly unnerfed and her B-air is now noticeably stronger as a kill option, she seems to also be buffed (although vanish is no longer as strong as a option, I think the extra kill power will more than make up for it), not as much as Pikachu but it's Sheik, she was better than Pikachu in Smash 4 lol. (source) Not saying they're surely broken because of them getting buffs, but out of all the characters and changes we know of they seem the most likely to be really strong imo.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Way too early to tell IMO. Even if we stipulate that Bayonetta was still top tier at E3, the fact remains that MKLeo showcased her ladder combos at the invitational in front of Sakurai and he was reportedly shaking his head at the sight. If she's not beaten with the nerf stick by release I'll be very surprised.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I think is the only safe pick based on what we know. Sheik looks fairly unchanged and nothing looks out of the ordinary for ZSS and Rosalina, but I feel neither will benefit notably from engine changes so it's hard to say how they'll perform. If half of the Bayonetta changes are true then I can't see her being a top tier threat that defines the meta.

 

[Jamisinon]

I think Cloud seemed nerfed enough that in singles he is no longer top tier.
Bayo (she will see some nerfs after the invitational but her frame data will still be good enough to keep her viable), Sheik (with the reduced impact of RAGE in Ultimate Sheik will be a character that benefits hugely from this), Diddy, Sonic, Mario, Rosalina, ZSS, Marth/Lucina, Corrin, Metaknight, & Snake. Maybe Mewtwo, Pikachu, Ryu, & Pokemon Trainer.
With the general consensus being that few major changes will be made from Sm4sh to Sma5h I believe the top end of the tier list will be similar. The only exceptions to this I can think of are how nerfed Fox was at the invitational, and the return of Snake. Massive buffs to sm4sh mid or lower tiers seems unlikely. Characters like Young Link and Wolf that weren't present in Sm4sh but were in Melee/Brawl are the hardest to postulate. But the best I can do is guess they would be somewhat similar to their counterparts i.e. Toon Link and Fox/Falco.
The game is still half a year away and we only got a sneak peek at half the roster so I do hope some things get mixed up a bit, hopefully some weaker sm4sh characters get buffs and maybe some characters get reworked. Even though there were reports of Heavier characters like Ganon getting improvements I think at higher levels the slowness of those characters will prevent them from being among the bests. I also think the same will hold true of characters like Ike that aren't in that DK/Bowser/Ganon weight class but still hit hard.

 

[PixelSun]

D-Air Spike

 

[Diem]

Hopefully, a lot of characters. Smash 4 made huge strides over Melee and Brawl towards making every character viable, as was observed this weekend where a Japanese Ganon player managed to beat Ally when he was playing Mario, and a Japanese Dedede player managed to beat MKLeo when he was Cloud. That kind of thing isn't nearly as likely in previous games.

With Ultimate giving so many characters some substantial tweaks, and it also being focused on balance and competitiveness like Smash 4, I expect that it'll be the most balanced Smash game yet, and thus, less characters that are just all around better than everyone else.

I think the same treatment might've been given to Smash 4, had it not been on the Wii U, with a small install base leading to lower sales and hype. Now that Smash is on the Switch, which has outsold the Wii U by a healthy margin, I think this game will have better post-launch support.

 

[Pyra]

Inkling please

Even if they aren't, they'll be top tier in my heart.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Hopefully, a lot of characters. Smash 4 made huge strides over Melee and Brawl towards making every character viable, as was observed this weekend where a Japanese Ganon player managed to beat Ally when he was playing Mario, and a Japanese Dedede player managed to beat MKLeo when he was Cloud. That kind of thing isn't nearly as likely in previous games.

Only because the meta for them are far more developed, it wasn't any less likely before.

Also Ally and MKLeo still placed higher than them. Pon didn't even make it out of pools. Upsets are common.

Smash 4 was only balanced in a way because most characters are dreadfully average, the top tiers play a whole different game either way. Thankfully Ultimate looks to avoid that silly balance philosophy and is just buffing everyone for the most part.

 

[Kaze Arashi]

Since I have played the NYC demo, i have a good idea of who might be...

-Even though he's nerfed by his down throw and uptilt, he still has combos out of them and still has good neutral. He's also better at covering ledge thanks to the airdodge nerf only allowing one airdodge. Also has good frame data still.

-Similar to the mario case. His spindash no loner cancels by shielding but is still relatively safe and his neutrals got better. Also the nerf to landings makes him a beast at catching opponents and juggling. He's still really fast and covers alot of ground, making him still good and hit/run as well as pressure and camp.

-The inklings have good speed, above average dash and good waveland. they also have good neutrals, and despite projectles, they are not zoners, having good offensive shield pressure and edgegaurding tools offstage, as well as setups, like the one I invented: bury them under a platform on battlefield and charge upsmash on said platform.

-A drop from top 5 but still has good trapping game and kill power. the only big nerf other than down smash is his uptilt no loner covering a ridiculous hitbox. He still has good combos and ledge trapping tools.

-Nerfed but still has smash 4 shenanigans. Just nerfed to a degree where he has to now mix whether to approach or camp due to the 15 second time on limit. His range on the buster sword has been toned down but still has good reach

-Got SEVERELY nerfed in areas such as fair first hit being harder to combo with, but still has 0-death shenanigans. However, it's confirmed sakurai is nerfing her a bit more to no longer be "OP" or broken, but she still feels top tier. She's no longer safe on every move, but her combo game and neutral are still good.

 

[Diem]

Only because the meta for them are far more developed, it wasn't any less likely before.

Also Ally and MKLeo still placed higher than them. Pon didn't even make it out of pools. Upsets are common.

Smash 4 was only balanced in a way because most characters are dreadfully average, the top tiers play a whole different game either way. Thankfully Ultimate looks to avoid that silly balance philosophy and is just buffing everyone for the most part.

I suppose you're right about the meta and it just being upsets. I was thinking that, compared to Ganondorf's effectiveness in Brawl, or, for example, Bowser's effectiveness in Melee, lower tier characters in 4 are better off than low tier characters in previous games, who had almost no chance.

Your point about buffing everyone was something I noticed as well. Ganondorf was terrible in Brawl and 4, because he was balanced under the idea that because he's powerful, he needs to be slow. But slow characters are always automatically worse competitively than faster characters, so it doesn't mean much in the end. So now they made slow characters like Ike and Ganondorf much faster, which makes them much more competitive. Combine that with faster movement and less lag across the board, and there's definitely some more equal footing this game.

 

[AlphaSSB]

I'd say its too early to tell. The game has several months left for balancing and refinement. That said, I just really hope that Bayonetta and Cloud don't dominate again. Those two ruined Smash 4.

In the E3 Demo, several characters seem to have been nerfed. Mario, Fox, and a few others. I think we're in for a good shake-up, especially with everyone back.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

TOP TIER FIRST IMPRESSIONS AND THEORY

 

[Tony_]

It's way too early to tell, but I think Ganondorf at least has a good chance of being a high tier character based on what I've heard about the E3 demo. Your usual suspects have a good shot too. High tier in a game in like Ultimate means your character is solo viable, though I still think maining more than one character would be a no brainer, IMO.

 

[Kaze Arashi]

Im looking at some overrated ideas so imma state an opinion here on them on what I think:

- They got major buffs and all but not close to top tier. Each still suffer their smash 4 flaws, albeit not as much as they used to. Ike and ganon still suffer from poor frame data and zelda still lacks a SAFE approach, although it's gotten a bit better do due to better mobility and neutral moves. However, they have potential to be mid or even high tier.

-Sure he has buffed recovery but it's still not safe. It's still easy to exploit and his grab game is still bad. Alongside the nerf on KO punch only lasting 15 seconds, it's forcing him to play in a more risky style where he has to get a KO punch.

-Although good, they're too balanced to make a top tier. They've always been the most honest characters in smash history and are probably gonna stay that way. However the one buff I think might change that is how they buffed his dash attack.

-Without the stupid grab game, these guys are nearly useless. Desyncing is still there but the grab game has been severely nerfed. There's no more wobbling or chain grabs, meaning they're more reliant on actual combos than infinites.

-New tools but the sword is looking like MK's sword where the range looks mediocre at best, with the possible exception of a few moves. It;'s possible for him, as well as toon link, to maybe be around borderline of top tier, but not there exactly.

-Sure, 59% off of a sweetspot and ridiculous speed and range? Sure. What makes me thinking about him NOT being top tier are several things. First, he's larger than bowser, making him complete combo food and easy to hit, adn in a game where offense is rewarded, IDK if ridley would fare that much. Also, when looking at the footage, I wasn't sure he has many reliable kill options, having little knockback for a smash attack or lack of safety. Lastly, even though he has good range, he looks like he finds himself more in close range despite his sweetspots, almost like marth. As well as young/toon, maybe around borderline, but he has potential imo.

 

[Putuk]

Any opponent will lose theirselves in his highness' glorious girth, throwing the match in the process.

 

[Kaze Arashi]

It's way too early to tell, but I think Ganondorf at least has a good chance of being a high tier character based on what I've heard about the E3 demo. Your usual suspects have a good shot too. High tier in a game in like Ultimate means your character is solo viable, though I still think maining more than one character would be a no brainer, IMO.

Upon further analyisis, I think everyone got overhype. He still suffers bad mobility and framedata, and the ledge is now harder to sweespot, making it easier to gimp and edgegaurd him. Also, the sword has range, but are even slower than previous smash attacks, except down smash being slightly faster. He's improved in his areas, but not enough to be a high tier.

 

[smashingDoug]

You laugh now I’m not

 

[Milky2Milk]

You laugh now I’m not

Sakurai is prone to overcorrection so I wouldn’t be surprised...

 

[KingBroly]

Inkling
Zero Suit Samus
Sheik
Diddy Kong
Ridley
Ganondorf
Ike
Snake
Marth

 

[Psychoace]

shes been nerfed like 5 times now and still proves to be the best, i think itll be hard to change her fundamental design
sheik is lookin really strong in this game, with most of her things in tact plus side b buff and lagless needles now her meta wilk stay solid.
giant disjointed hitboxes, the limit nerf hurts but with a godlike dash dance he will still be hard to fight in neutral.
not sure if esma bias is rubbing off but that nair and dair buff look siiick.
i think that always facing opponent shtick is going to benefit ryus so much on shield cross ups and ledge traps.
in a game that shows a lot of edge guarding scenarios and diddy being on of the best trappers he'll def keep strong.
another trap god, but at all parts of the stage. Two frame uptilts are going to be sick.
if knee is safe on shield lord help us all.
so much damage output, sico recovery and another big stage control type character, she'll def shine early on at least.
with the flood of ridley mains popping up i see his meta blasting off at first. His aerials looks fast af and that android 16 lariat will lead the way to top tier.

 

[Frihetsanka]

In the current build, Bayonetta, Ryu, and Sheik seem to be top tier. It is quite likely that some (or all) of them will be adjusted before the game is released, however.

 

[meleebrawler]

Im looking at some overrated ideas so imma state an opinion here on them on what I think:


-Sure, 59% off of a sweetspot and ridiculous speed and range? Sure. What makes me thinking about him NOT being top tier are several things. First, he's larger than bowser, making him complete combo food and easy to hit, adn in a game where offense is rewarded, IDK if ridley would fare that much. Also, when looking at the footage, I wasn't sure he has many reliable kill options, having little knockback for a smash attack or lack of safety. Lastly, even though he has good range, he looks like he finds himself more in close range despite his sweetspots, almost like marth. As well as young/toon, maybe around borderline, but he has potential imo.

Just wanted to chime in with my opinion of Ridley. Honestly the knockback on his smashes seem pretty good, with the possible exception of the edges of dsmash. He certainly has less KOing moves than most characters of his size, but it's the tradeoff for faster moves in general. Uair and bair look fast and decent enough for KOing. Now confirming KOs is what looks more troublesome, but luckily his edgeguarding looks competent. Being in close quarters doesn't seem it will bother Ridley too much if his general frame data is as good as it looks, especially jab.

 

[Superyoshiom]

It's very hard for Bayo not to be top tier unless she gets nerfed to a brutal extent.
I actually think that Pokemon Trainer has a very good shot at being top tier, which I'm hoping for since it'd lead to some intense matchups .

The idea of being able to watch Pokemon Trainer vs Mewtwo at high level play and not just for reenactment of the games makes me shudder with excitement.

 

[Spinosaurus]

If Pokemon Trainer stays the way they currently are, then I'd be surprised if they don't end up ridiculously good too tbh.

Ryu, Pika and PT are the only ones I feel comfortable calling early top tiers, but that's based on an early build. I'd be shocked if those 3 stayed the way they are currently.

 

[OhMyBanana54]

Okay so it’s too early to say who will be top tier in this game. Bayonetta literally jumped 4 times on camera in front of everybody. Sakurai has even said it’s an early build of the game...

But a couple of characters do stand out above the rest and here in no particular order is my list of 20 characters to watch out for in Smash ultimate:



These are all characters who I feel have the best neutral and offensive options without sacrificing their defensive options or characters whose neutral and defensive game straight up invalidate some of the cast.

I didn’t include any echo fighters because it felt redundant.

I can also see being viable in the full game but I need to see more. All in all the game seemed pretty balanced, but we’re six months away from release so let’s give it some time.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My guesses are most likely Top Tiers:

: Diddy's toolbox is just amazing, and with a more offensive game there's bound to be more crazy set ups he can do. Likely will keep a dominant air game and will probably keep having about the strongest neutral in the game, even if slightly nerfed. Diddy has been a Top Tier twice now, and even remained one in Smash 4 despite being the MOST nerfed in all patches.
: Seems stronger and even faster. Mewtwo is gonna be beastly yet again, am quite sure of that.
: The demo gave me the impression. She seems mostly unchanged, and Needles will remain dominant in neutral.
: Demo impressions, mostly seems to be similar enough to his Brawl self and that bodes well for him.
: Yes Pikachu looks impressive now, can't lie. Very strong in the air now and Thunder killing earlier also seems like a great buff. Also, Pikachu has never been bad exactly.
: Much like Sheik, but without Needles. Very good combos. Seems to follow his Smash 4 self.
: I saw some crazy Marth play from the demo videos. He seems buffed, and way faster. Outside of the early patches of Smash 4, Marth has never been bad anyway.
: Still could kill at insanely low %s. She might be nerfed, but am certain she'll remain one of the better characters.
: Probably worse than in Smash 4, but will remain a popular pick. Fox never been bad either. He'll keep his Lasers, good aerials, good combos, and strong Up Smash. That's at least worthy of High Tier.
: Because of matchup possibilities. Down B swich is insanely fast, so the Trainer basically forces you to adapt to fight 3 totally different characters. Squirtle especially looks promising.

 

[shinhed-echi]

For a first tier list, I expect all of these guys to be in it. I may not get the exact order right, but this is how I'm seeing it.

Not much to say. Looks more beastly than ever before.
Still has combos, and they've increased his grab range?
Aerial landing lag reduction is godsent.
Still a fierce character.
Shorter sword range and limit with a time limit. But he's still Cloud.
Some nerfs applied, but she still triple jumps, and has witch time to ruin recoveries without auto-snap. Still has OP combo strings.
1v1mode will have him do these ridiculous combos he could manage in SF2, or at least that's the idea. And he's still really strong.
He's been benefitted a great deal. His a iterials are amazing now and can execute them more frequently without having to worry about landing lag. For a powerhouse character (with a disjointed hitbox), this is a significant buff.
He looks intimidating especially with that new Nair plus landing lag reduction.
Flashback of Brawl. He still has terrifying tilts. Can still hold on to grenades to deal with close-ranged combatants. Aerials still seem ridiculously strong. Can still throw 2 grenades.
At least they've removed proximity mines.

 

[Quazwx]

Is looking really good, played him almost exclusively in brawl (I played mostly casually but still) and I am looking forward to do it again

Of course, she still has 0 to death, and now with 4 jumps, pls Sakurai, is she your waifu?

He has been nerfed, but not too much.

He looks the same as his sm4sh incarnation, and has even been buffed whit a faster side b and angulable neutral b.

Same case as marth, some people say bair can kill, side b doesn't put you helpless.

in general, smash 4 top tiers are looking good, and almost every character is buffed, game looking cool

 

[Spinosaurus]

I'll be shocked if this game ends up balanced at all lol.

I feel that's gonna be apparent really fast. Like, hell, I'll eat crow if Cloud is top tier in this one.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Too early to tell but Bayo still looks insane.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Ike will be god tier on Moray Towers. All joking aside, Pikachu’s nair looks ridiculous, Sonic is probably still good, I would say Ganon will finally be mid tier or better again, but I would say the best character is Little Mac. Literally everything about him was buffed (even his recovery)

 

[meleebrawler]

Ike will be god tier on Moray Towers. All joking aside, Pikachu’s nair looks ridiculous, Sonic is probably still good, I would say Ganon will finally be mid tier or better again, but I would say the best character is Little Mac. Literally everything about him was buffed (even his recovery)

Not his aerials. They still suck.