Which Characters does Sakurai Prioritize the most for SSB4?

[SpaceJell0]

There has been a lot of talk about how Sakurai prioritizes his character, and by no means is this a hate thread. This is more of an educated, non-biased guess on Sakurai's priorities from previous games. You can also feel free to explain why Sakurai prioritizes some veterans or considers some newcomers. Anyways, there appears to be a number of factors that influence a character's appeal. Here are some, to name a few of those reasons:

-Iconic Status to Hardcore Nintendo Fans
-Iconic Status to Casual or Beginning Nintendo Fans
-Would the player want to play as this character?
-Would the character be unique?
-Would the character be fun to play as?
-Is the character popular now/ a retro throwback/ classic?
-Is there moveset potential from their games and can we experiment with different moves to add ourselves?
-Is the character popular/ charming/ hype creating/ unexpectedly likable?
-If the character is from a dead franchise, can we bring it back to satisfy some of the loyal fans to that franchise?
-Would this character's moveset get stale or out of character?
-Is there a certain point where the character's inclusion would disappoint some fans/ feel out of character/ feel out of place in Smash Bros?
-If the character is third party, how well has the company helped/supported Nintendo in the past and would the character feel out of place?
-Is the character important to Nintendo's history?
-Is it the only character representing their franchise now?

Phew, now that the analysis is over, let's start another one! Which characters from Super Smash Bros Brawl (which had the most diverse/largest roster and thus gives us a plethora of characters to analyze) have more priority over others? The ones cut from Melee and the ones Planned to be in Brawl also gives us evidence (Mewtwo is a special exception due to his almost guaranteed inclusion in SSB4 which you should take note of)

^ here is Brawl's Roster for reference

^Here are the confirmed characters for SSB4 which I will update as Sakurai reveals characters later. You may also use this as reference.

Feel free to post your thoughts and please, don't argue this is an opinion based thread.

In my opinion, these are the prioritized characters from highest to lowest from Brawl:
Mario, Link, Pikachu, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Samus/ZSS, Fox, Yoshi, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Olimar, Pit, Bowser, Wario, Peach, Zelda/Sheik, Marth, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Ness, Sonic, Mr. Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, Wolf, Falco, Ganondorf, Lucas, Ike, R.O.B., Snake, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Toon Link

 

[Speculator]

Jigglypuff is nowhere near that low priority. Sure, she may not be as important to the Pokemon franchise as she was in 1998, but she's sure as hell important to Super Smash Bros as a veteran fighter. That counts for a lot.

In my opinion I think the three most likely to leave from Brawl are Lucario, Toon Link and Wolf. TL and Wolf are the most expendable characters, because their playstyle can be conveyed by characters already present in the roster. One might argue Falco is more expendable than Wolf and I think there's certainly a case for saying so, but I also have a feeling Falco is a more important character to both Star Fox and Super Smash Bros given his role in the former and veteran status in the latter. Anything could happen regarding those characters, but I would guess the most likely outcome would be Wolf leaving and Falco being given a more unique playstyle.

Lucario I think has low priority when you take the rise of Mewtwo into account. While he does have a unique moveset, I think that uniqueness could be retained if Mewtwo were included as a transformation character. Gen 1 Mewtwo could have a moveset based on his Melee appearance, while Gen 6 Mewtwo could take assets from Lucario and incorporate a similar playstyle. This would at least help to offset those who would be disappointed by the departure of Lucario's playstyle - and I think one of Sakurai's biggest concerns is disappointing people. With Toon Link, Wolf and Lucario gone and elements of Wolf and Lucario resurging in Falco and Newtwo, I think the blow to the roster is as light as it can be while still removing a reasonable amount of characters.

 

[FalKoopa]

I grouped the characters into Tiers, as I understand. Feel free to disagree.

God Tier


Top Tier


Mid Tier


Low Tier

 

[Speculator]

Ike and Lucas are hugely underestimated when it comes to significance. Lucas I can understand the confusion since he has a couple of moves in common with Ness, but Ike doesn't share a single move with any other character. Everything he brings to the game is 100% unique gameplay. There's no reason to assume Ike will leave just because we're getting Chrom - Fire Emblem is easily a sizeable enough franchise for three roster slots. As for Lucas, without him
we have no Mother 3 representation. Ness only represents a third of the Mother franchise by himself.

 

[SpaceJell0]

I grouped the characters into Tiers, as I understand. Feel free to disagree.

God Tier


Top Tier


Mid Tier


Low Tier

The only thing I never understood was why people think Lucas will be gone, he had a different playstyle and his HUGE cult following is already beating NoA down as it is. Imagine the riots that would come at Lucas's exclusion xD Everything else is pretty reasonable except for Pit as he already was shown to be high priority xD but whateves, it's your opinion

 

[Groose]

I grouped the characters into Tiers, as I understand. Feel free to disagree.

God Tier


Top Tier


Mid Tier


Low Tier

1) Move Pit up to Top Tier. He's not a God Tier, but he has definitely earned the right to go shoulder-to-shoulder with at least the likes of Zelda.

2) Move Ganondorf down to Mid Tier. It's rather odd that he wasn't decloned in Melee and I don't think Sakurai views him as one of the more important half of the Brawl roster. Sad, but apparently true.

3) MAYBE move Falcon up to God Tier. MAYBE.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Yeah, I'd put Pit in either God or Top Tier. Other than that, I agree with what FalKoopa said.

 

[Starcutter]

I grouped the characters into Tiers, as I understand. Feel free to disagree.

God Tier


Top Tier


Mid Tier


Low Tier

I think Ness and Falcon MIGHT POSSIBLY be higher

Pit should be top for sure, and where's on this list?

 

[SpaceJell0]

I think Ness and Falcon MIGHT POSSIBLY be higher

Pit should be top for sure, and where's on this list?

Probably Top Tier

 

[XenothiumX]

My list from Brawl:

God Tier
(major impact on Nintendo's history)

Demigod Tier:
(too popular to even consider touching)

Above-Average Tier:
(very stupid if removed)

Average Tier:
(these characters are right on the line of in danger of being cut. Maybe they will get cut if Sakurai gets desperate)

Below-Average
(doesn't bring much to the table, of course I doubt Wolf and Falco will both be cut, at least one will make it)

Bottom Tier:
( whom i'm expecting to get replaced)

 

[SpaceJell0]

My list from Brawl:

God Tier
(major impact on Nintendo's history)

Demigod Tier:
(too popular to even consider touching)

Above-Average Tier:
(very stupid if removed)

Average Tier:
(these characters are right on the line of in danger of being cut. Maybe they will get cut if Sakurai gets desperate)

Below-Average
(doesn't bring much to the table, of course I doubt Wolf and Falco will both be cut, at least one will make it)

Bottom Tier:
( whom i'm expecting to get replaced)

I kinda wanna bump Jigglypuff down because, even though she is part of the oh-so-holy "original 12", she feels like a filler character that people only like for gameplay and not for the actual character's design. Just my opinion

 

[XenothiumX]

I kinda wanna bump Jigglypuff down because, even though she is part of the oh-so-holy "original 12", she feels like a filler character that people only like for gameplay and not for the actual character's design. Just my opinion

Ha! yeah I can actually see Jigglypuff getting removed, nor would I care if she was, but I stand by the fact that it would be really stupid to remove her.

 

[Yams]

TOP (Irremovable):

HIGH (Extremely unlikely to be removed):

MID (Very Unlikely to be removed):

LOW (Low hanging fruits)
/
BOTTOM (Likely to be cut if cuts are made):
/

I think either Falco or Wolf could be cut, it could go either way.

 

[SirGalvan]

I do not understand why jigglypuff is always on the bottom of most lists, even some people thinking she is going to get cut.
She is from the original game and I doubt anyone from that game will ever get cut in any future smash game.

 

[ZecaOMestre]

I don't get it why so many people see Falco as likely to be cut. If one of the Star Fox rep were to be cut, it would most certainly be Wolf. Falco is a two-time veteran and is way more different from Fox than Wolf. I also see Snake as less priority than Ike

 

[SpaceJell0]

I do not understand why jigglypuff is always on the bottom of most lists, even some people thinking she is going to get cut.
She is from the original game and I doubt anyone from that game will ever get cut in any future smash game.

But, but she's not iconic, she doesn't make people want to play smash, she's a joke character, and she's a filler character. I hardly think a mere veteran status makes up for those attributes but again, we don't know what'll happen. Those reasons are my speculation as to why I think she isn't that high priority. Out of curiousity, why do you want Jigglypuff in the next game? And if she wasn't included, would you have begged Sakurai for Jigglypuff?

EDIT: If you haven't noticed, I hate the "veterans can't be cut just cuz" excuse

 

[SirGalvan]

I dont care for Jigglypuff either way....I just think that her being one of the originals from the first Smash Bros gives her a high chance of returning

Also with the veterans returning just because argument, too me only applies with the original cast

 

[nessokman]

we do need a mother 3 rep. Mother fans already kicked nintendo of america until they gave us EB. I'd personally prefer masked man, as he'd bring many cool elements but i digress.

 

[Speculator]

But, but she's not iconic, she doesn't make people want to play smash, she's a joke character, and she's a filler character. I hardly think a mere veteran status makes up for those attributes but again, we don't know what'll happen. Those reasons are my speculation as to why I think she isn't that high priority. Out of curiousity, why do you want Jigglypuff in the next game? And if she wasn't included, would you have begged Sakurai for Jigglypuff?

EDIT: If you haven't noticed, I hate the "veterans can't be cut just cuz" excuse

She absolutely is not a joke character and neither is she filler. I don't believe there are any "joke" inclusions in SSB at all. The same time and effort goes into all characters with original movesets. Jigglypuff isn't a clone, or a semi-clone, and if we lose Jigglypuff we lose a unique style of play. That's never a good thing and even if you don't care about SSB64 veteran status, that at least should place her above legitimately expendable characters. There were a lot of people who expected Mr. Game & Watch to be cut after Melee because they thought he was a "joke" character, or because they didn't understand his origins. Obviously that didn't turn out to be the case. I believe that any character that brings an element of uniqueness to the game is worth preserving, even if some people happen not to appreciate the character.

As for being iconic, while Jigglypuff might not be as significant to Pokemon as she once was, she's certainly as important to Super Smash Bros as she's ever been. While you might not like the SSB64 veteran idea, it doesn't make it an "excuse" and it doesn't make it not a factor to consider. A character's status within SSB is every bit as important as their status in their own series. Jigglypuff was there when it all started and has had perfect attendence so far. That makes her every bit as iconic as Ness, Captain Falcon and the other 64 mainstays.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Hehehe i think this smash will have the best roster of all time.

 

[nessokman]

Hehehe i think this smash will have the best roster of all time.

HE KNOWS THE ROSTER! TAKE HIM TO THE INTERROGATION ROOM! Don't feed him until we have answers!

 

[SpaceJell0]

She absolutely is not a joke character and neither is she filler. I don't believe there are any "joke" inclusions in SSB at all. The same time and effort goes into all characters with original movesets. Jigglypuff isn't a clone, or a semi-clone, and if we lose Jigglypuff we lose a unique style of play. That's never a good thing and even if you don't care about SSB64 veteran status, that at least should place her above legitimately expendable characters. There were a lot of people who expected Mr. Game & Watch to be cut after Melee because they thought he was a "joke" character, or because they didn't understand his origins. Obviously that didn't turn out to be the case. I believe that any character that brings an element of uniqueness to the game is worth preserving, even if some people happen not to appreciate the character.

As for being iconic, while Jigglypuff might not be as significant to Pokemon as she once was, she's certainly as important to Super Smash Bros as she's ever been. While you might not like the SSB64 veteran idea, it doesn't make it an "excuse" and it doesn't make it not a factor to consider. A character's status within SSB is every bit as important as their status in their own series. Jigglypuff was there when it all started and has had perfect attendence so far. That makes her every bit as iconic as Ness, Captain Falcon and the other 64 mainstays.

Calm down bro I said it was only my opinion xD and by joke character I meant that people knew Jigglypuff wasn't iconic so it was funny. And the veteran status is nothing, Sakurai almost cut Ness in favor of Lucas and ,I don't know the validity of this, Jigglypuff was added late. But I'm glad you expressed your opinions so I could learn why Jigglypuff has a following. I just never liked her as a character. But great examples!

 

[Dark Phazon]

@Speculator - I hear that but then they are clones added as fillers or for what ever reasons..and CaptainDorf...

How da F_ck do you explain that?

Not having a go at you..just that i think its all Bull*

I think Sakurai does what he does in the time that he has...RealTalk...

CaptainDorf is..a monstrosity...theres no reason....its just beyond Stupid...and like When PeePz say Stuff like a New FE would just different coloured hair sword user...and Ridley would be a charizard clone....

Its as stupid and disgraceful as the movesets the char has been given..now thats why its Bull*

 

[Diddy Kong]

My list from Brawl:

God Tier
(major impact on Nintendo's history)

Demigod Tier:
(too popular to even consider touching)

Above-Average Tier:
(very stupid if removed)

Average Tier:
(these characters are right on the line of in danger of being cut. Maybe they will get cut if Sakurai gets desperate)

Below-Average
(doesn't bring much to the table, of course I doubt Wolf and Falco will both be cut, at least one will make it)

Bottom Tier:
( whom i'm expecting to get replaced)

Diddy Demi-God plz.

 

[FalKoopa]

1) Move Pit up to Top Tier. He's not a God Tier, but he has definitely earned the right to go shoulder-to-shoulder with at least the likes of Zelda.

I'm thinking

2) Move Ganondorf down to Mid Tier. It's rather odd that he wasn't decloned in Melee and I don't think Sakurai views him as one of the more important half of the Brawl roster. Sad, but apparently true.

I disagree. He has Bowser's level of iconic-ness. I believe he wasn't decloned simply because Sakurai did not want to alienate his mains from Melee.

3) MAYBE move Falcon up to God Tier. MAYBE.

Again, I'm not sure. The only thing stopping me from moving him to God tier is the dormancy of his franchise.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

TOP (Irremovable):

HIGH (Extremely unlikely to be removed):

MID (Very Unlikely to be removed):

LOW (Low hanging fruits)

BOTTOM (Likely to be cut):


Vive la Revolution!!

 

[Speculator]

Calm down bro I said it was only my opinion xD and by joke character I meant that people knew Jigglypuff wasn't iconic so it was funny. And the veteran status is nothing, Sakurai almost cut Ness in favor of Lucas and ,I don't know the validity of this, Jigglypuff was added late. But I'm glad you expressed your opinions so I could learn why Jigglypuff has a following. I just never liked her as a character. But great examples!

Please don't tell me to 'calm down' when I haven't acted angry or annoyed. I'm just explaining why I disagree. Ness was almost cut in favor of Lucas for Melee, that's true. Had that happened, I think the 64 veteran status certainly would mean a lot less than it does currently. However that didn't happen, and now all twelve characters from SSB64 have three games of Smash legacy behind them. That's why I think it's important to preserve all of those characters. I'm not being hostile, I just have a different stance on the subject.

@Speculator - I hear that but then they are clones added as fillers or for what ever reasons..and CaptainDorf...

Oh, I absolutely agree that there were, certainly in Melee, clone characters added in as filler. I don't dispute that. At least those characters were mostly cut from Brawl, and those that did make it through were given a few new elements to differentiate them from their "parent" characters.

My point was I don't think any characters are added in as jokes. I don't see that being the case. I think Jigglypuff and G&W are every bit as valid as Fox or Pikachu.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Personally, I think they all deserve to be high priority, but when it comes down to it, this is how I think it will go down.

God Tier: The original eight. They cannot make a Smash game without these 8.

High Tier: Major character(s) of their respective franchises. Virtually untouchable.

Mid Tier: Characters that have a great shot at being in the game, but still need to fight for their spot on the roster.

Low Tier: The Lowest priority, in my opinion. The expendable characters that are on the chopping block to be removed for another spot (mostly for in their franchise).

 

[Dark Phazon]

F_ck knows who wil be cut but we all know 100/ chars will be cut
How many? F_ck knows
Who? F_ck knows.

But IMO if anyone else other than these chars get cut it would be really stupid...

Ike/Lucario/Lucas/Toon Link/Snake/Falco or Wolf/ZSS/R.O.B

If anything the chars that will get cut will be replaced by someone else in the same series mainly.

FE
Earthbound
PKMN
Starfox
And even R.O.B maybe.

 

[mimgrim]

People are mixing up low priority and definatly getting cut. Just because a character is low priority doesn't mean they will get cut or are even likely to get cut and doesn't have anything to do with moves either. Jiggs was low priority in Brawl and, correct me if I'm wrong here, was also low priority in Melee I believe. A character that is low priority just means they will be the last ones put into to the game, not a guaranteed cut. So with that in mind.

God Like Priority - - Marth is in this slot due to him major importance to his franchise and that he is the most guarenteed FE character to be in any and all Smash games in the future.

High Priority -

Mid Priority - - Wolf was low priortiy last time however his popularity I believe will keep him as mid priority this time around. Ike is the only other lord to appear in more then 1 game in his series keeping him just out of low priority range. The reast I hope are self explanatory.

Low Priority - - Jiggs being low priority is based off of pass results with her ebing low priority before. G&W is low priority because he is the easist character to create. The other 5 I hope are self explanatory.

 

[moneyfrenzy]

This in my opinion is pretty accurate:

God priority: literally zero % chance of getting cut

High: like a 2% chance of getting cut

Med: : dumb if any were cut

Low: : sonic because he is third party, Pokemon Trainer because of development time, Ike for new fire emblem, Rob due to lack of popularity. Lucas due to many thinking he is an exact replica of ness, Zero Suit Samus because she is just Samus.

very low: ,or (pretty self explanatory)

 

[XenothiumX]

According to the official concept art: Marth, Metaknight, Mr.Game&Watch, Wario, and Zero-Suite Samus have been confirmed. Maybe they are held at a higher priority than we think. No sign of Jigglypuff though.[collapse=official concept art]

[/collapse]

 

[Speculator]

According to the official concept art: Marth, Metaknight, Mr.Game&Watch, Wario, and Zero-Suite Samus have been confirmed. Maybe they are held at a higher priority than we think. No sign of Jigglypuff though.[collapse=official concept art]

[/collapse]

That's not official concept art, it's a doodle. You shouldn't read into everything Sakurai does. He's even had to go so far as to explicitly state that a picture he posted on Twitter of some figurines had nothing to do with SSB development.

 

[FalKoopa]

According to the official concept art: Marth, Metaknight, Mr.Game&Watch, Wario, and Zero-Suite Samus have been confirmed. Maybe they are held at a higher priority than we think. No sign of Jigglypuff though.[collapse=official concept art]

[/collapse]

I only take the doodle as a guarantee that those characters won't be cut. The doodle isn't about priority, or Meta Knight would have been revealed before Bowser.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I only take the doodle as a guarantee that those characters won't be cut. The doodle isn't about priority, or Meta Knight would have been revealed before Bowser.

Maybe the devs are finding a way to nerf him, and it's taking long.

 

[XenothiumX]

That's not official concept art, it's a doodle that has . You shouldn't read into everything Sakurai does. He's even had to go so far as to explicitly state that a picture he posted on Twitter of some figurines had nothing to do with SSB development.

Well if it's not official then I suppose Sakurai explicitly stated that this was a doodle that has nothing to do with the next super smash bros. Even so his doodle shows that he has given a high priority for these characters. Concept art is to grasp idea of what the final artwork might look like. It's official according to IGN
source:http://www.ign.com/wikis/super-smash-bros-wii-u-3ds/Items

I only take the doodle as a guarantee that those characters won't be cut. The doodle isn't about priority, or Meta Knight would have been revealed before Bowser.

Meta knight has been given high priority, but maybe not as high as bowser's. There's probably a reason he was not revealed with the rest (maybe he's not iconic enough). Bowser's absence from the picture does not mean he's not important.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

No brainers:


These are gonna make it in either way:


Not as high on the priority list as others, but most of these if not all will get in:


These guys are easily disposed of and the majority of them if not all will likely get cut:


Ordered exactly how I think they're prioritized, so Toon Link is under Lucario, Lucario is under Lucas, Lucas is under Ike etc. I do think that max 6 characters will get cut though, and minimum 3.

 

[Starbound]

S Tier - The Main Characters of the Biggest Nintendo Franchises


A Tier - The Melee Non-Clones + Luigi, Falcon and Ness


B Tier - First Party Brawl Non-Semi Clones


C Tier - Melee Clones that survived + Jigglypuff and Mewtwo


D Tier - Remaining Brawl Cast + Roy and Dr. Mario


E Tier - The Rest

 

[Dark Phazon]

No brainers:


These are gonna make it in either way:


Not as high on the priority list as others, but most of these if not all will get in:


These guys are easily disposed of and the majority of them if not all will likely get cut:


Ordered exactly how I think they're prioritized, so Toon Link is under Lucario, Lucario is under Lucas, Lucas is under Ike etc. I do think that max 6 characters will get cut though, and minimum 3.

Hmmm i think thats a good guess 6-3 Chars will be scrapped but that begs the question.

How many newcomers will they be?

Brawl had 39 right? Including TransF & all of PKMN Trainers pokes.

Im thinking 39-4=35+3

MM
WFT
Villager = 38 + 7 Newcomers = 45 that sounds good.

Well to me.... 45 Roster.

We dont even need more than 7 Newcomers really tbh plus most of the chars that will be scrapped will be for a char thats in the same series.

1. Little Mac
2. Palutena
3. Black Shadow
4. Bowser J.r/Toad/Waluigi/Paper Mario
5. FE Char
6. Issac/Shulk
7.Mewtwo

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Hmmm i think thats a good guess 6-3 Chars will be scrapped but that begs the question.

How many newcomers will they be?

Brawl had 39 right? Including TransF & all of PKMN Trainers pokes.

Im thinking 39-4=35+3

MM
WFT
Villager = 38 + 7 Newcomers = 45 that sounds good.

Well to me.... 45 Roster.

We dont even need more than 7 Newcomers really tbh plus most of the chars that will be scrapped will be for a char thats in the same series.

1. Little Mac
2. Palutena
3. Black Shadow
4. Bowser J.r/Toad/Waluigi/Paper Mario
5. FE Char
6. Issac/Shulk
7.Mewtwo

45 characters sounds just about right. I've always been predicting 8 Newcomers so I wouldn't be surprised if my beloved Ike would get the axe too. And I don't believe that a Mario rep, Black Shadow or Isaac/Shulk would ever get prioritized over either K. Rool or Ridley as newcomers. Their popularity and potential speaks for themselves, and they'd both rep two very underrepresented franchises. Either way, this thread isn't the talk for that, but try and be a little optimistic