Where would Mario stand in the new tier list?

Zalak

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#41
I hear you, but I personally favor Mario's FAir, because even though it's more unorthodox, I feel it's more versatile. I think versatility is the main reason I prefer Mario over Doc. I don't feel like I can be as creative with the Doc as I can with Mario.
 

TehGuitarLord

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#42
I hear you, but I personally favor Mario's FAir, because even though it's more unorthodox, I feel it's more versatile. I think versatility is the main reason I prefer Mario over Doc. I don't feel like I can be as creative with the Doc as I can with Mario.
The main reason why I play Mario over Doc is that he's just more natural to me. I can play Doc, but it's just not as good. Looking objectively at the game, myself, and a lot of people, think that Doc's fair is one of the reasons to chose him over Mario. At the end of the day, it's just personal preference as there aren't enough reasons as to why I have to play Doc over Mario. Honestly, fair is one of the moves I personally use the least when playing as Mario, but it has its uses.
 

Zalak

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#43
Back when I played the game more casually, my Mario was extremely FAir heavy, so that might be one reason I'm defending his FAir now :p I don't use Mario's FAir nearly as often as I did starting out, but I still find it to be useful quite often. You're probably right about Doc's FAir being better overall though.
 
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#44
I think Doc and Mario's nairs both work the best in their respective move pools. Mario's nair is a stronger combo finisher which he needs since he doesn't have a strong fair to finish with. Doc doesn't need it at as a combo finisher so he gets better use from his own nair which is a better neutral tool. If they switched nairs they would both be worse off imo.
 

Fakes

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#45
Doc totally has a better fair because one of Mario's biggest problems is the lack of kill moves, and that's why he's so edge guard heavy.
Mario is just more fun all around. Doc, for me at least, just doesn't feel as fluid. It's definitely a preference thing. Doc is only higher on the tier list because of matchups, not just because he's "better"
 
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#46
I'd say objectively that Doc is higher on the tier list and deservedly so. He has an easy aerial way to kill, that is very very important. He also has a very easy throw to fair combo that is pretty much guaranteed on most characters. The pills' trajectory is substantially better against the whole cast on any stage and they deal more damage and knock back, also his cape can flip sweet-spotters since it goes below the stage a bit, Mario's cannot.

I like Mario better but Doc has an easier time facing top tiers and most others. If he's better at matchups than that means he's "better", those two statements aren't mutually inclusive from a factual point of view. If you're just talking about personal preference "better" well that could be any character, some people think Mewtwo is "better" than Mario and Doc.

p.s. Mario's Fair is the true dunk, Doc is a poser.

p.s.s. Where does Shaq belong on the tier list?
 
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Fakes

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#47
I'd say objectively that Doc is higher on the tier list and deservedly so. He has an easy aerial way to kill, that is very very important. He also has a very easy throw to fair combo that is pretty much guaranteed on most characters. The pills' trajectory is substantially better against the whole cast on any stage and they deal more damage and knock back, also his cape can flip sweet-spotters since it goes below the stage a bit, Mario's cannot.

I like Mario better but Doc has an easier time facing top tiers and most others. If he's better at matchups than that means he's "better", those two statements aren't mutually inclusive from a factual point of view. If you're just talking about personal preference "better" well that could be any character, some people think Mewtwo is "better" than most of the mid tiers.

p.s. Mario's Fair is the true dunk, Doc is a poser.

p.s.s. Where does Shaq belong on the tier list?
Mario is much more combo heavy, which makes him a lot more exciting to me and less predictable (probably not the best word for what I'm trying to get at). I suppose it was a little unjustified to say that Doc isn't better than Mario, because he is.. in some aspects of the game (and those aspects seem to work really well for him). Just as you said some people think Mewtwo is better than most of the mid tiers, that's how I view Doc... some people just think he is better. Maybe it's just because he's a badass, but I've been noticing a lot more Mario mains making waves against high tiers in tournament, and some of the better Doc mains are opting for high tiers in tournament. That's just one point of view, however. To each his own, I'm gonna stand by saying that Mario is better and I have a feeling his meta is going to evolve

Shaq has great tools to create space between him and his opponents, and I could imagine that the only MUs he would have trouble with would be Fox/Falco (due to his big hurtboxes vs shine), Marth because he could compete with the spacing, and Sheik because I bet she'd have a chain grab. I'd place Shaq above Peach/Puff/Cap
 

C-SAF

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#48
Mario is much more combo heavy, which makes him a lot more exciting to me and less predictable (probably not the best word for what I'm trying to get at). I suppose it was a little unjustified to say that Doc isn't better than Mario, because he is.. in some aspects of the game (and those aspects seem to work really well for him). Just as you said some people think Mewtwo is better than most of the mid tiers, that's how I view Doc... some people just think he is better. Maybe it's just because he's a badass, but I've been noticing a lot more Mario mains making waves against high tiers in tournament, and some of the better Doc mains are opting for high tiers in tournament. That's just one point of view, however. To each his own, I'm gonna stand by saying that Mario is better and I have a feeling his meta is going to evolve

Shaq has great tools to create space between him and his opponents, and I could imagine that the only MUs he would have trouble with would be Fox/Falco (due to his big hurtboxes vs shine), Marth because he could compete with the spacing, and Sheik because I bet she'd have a chain grab. I'd place Shaq above Peach/Puff/Cap
I don't think anybody actually thinks Mewtwo is better than any mid tiers.
 

Drevis2

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#50
imo, I think Luigi has better MUs and even w/ his predictable approach and easy edge guarding recovery, is still better than Mario overall. He hits hard, does more damage, and kills. Mario has a long way to go. I think Yoshi has better potential than Mario too, just combo-wise and kill-wise again. Ganon, I think he's even, might be a little better since he can hit a spacie 4 times and that's a stock. Mario is an amazing character, don't get me wrong, but a LONG WAY to go. I've learned a couple new things.

Don't think of me as the best Mario ever either. I'm nothing compared to Brown Mario, and won't be anything compared to him until I start doing more damage. Neither is Scorp. Scorp is nothing to Brown Mario, now that was a Mario main. He has only a handful of videos, but I can tell by his gameplay, this guy knew his MUs and knew what the hell he was doing.

I'm making a video w/ the dair usage, how it can be implemented more. I'll post it when it's done. Got all the necessary clips, just got to edit it a little better :p
Luigi does have tools that Mario doesn't, but I don't think he's a lot better, maybe just one or two tiers away
 
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