Where is Fox generally on the tier list and how to KO?

[horizons889]

He's my main in smash and I'm pretty new to the game overall. My other main is ness which I generally do better with.. mainly because I can land KO's easily. I find it hard to land my up-smashes with Fox :/ Anyways, how strong is Fox in the meta game and how does the future look for him? Tips on how to land my KO's (like up-air/up-smash) would be appreciated. I land them every now and then, but not consistently.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

General concensus is that Fox is an A tier; not quite one of the best, but a very strong contender regardless.

Some solid setups for upsmash include short-hop fast-fall down-air, and late hit neutral-air. These can also be tricky to hit, but are at least safer than going for it raw. Also up-smash out of shield is a really good option if your opponent isn't pressuring safely enough.

You can combo into up-air with a tipper down-tilt, and possibly a dash attack if the opponent DIs poorly. Up-airs at kill percents aren't quite so easy to get, but they do make for a good juggle option at lower percents.

 

[M@v]

A lot of people have Fox as top tier honestly. Personally I have him as 5th, behind Sheik, Rosa, ZSS, and Ryu. His only glaring weakness imo is having awful options getting up off of a ledge safely.

He doesn't have kill throws, which could be seen as a weakness compared to other top tiers, but he has plenty of kill confirms. He's mediocre at going after opponents offstage, but he's not BAD at it. Lastly, his recovery is still somewhat easy to beat out, but its the best it has been in any smash game.

 

[horizons889]

Ok, so then Fox is definitely a promising character to stick with? Ness I've been hearing is very linear and might fall to lower tier. But I enjoy them both. Also, I've been hearing Fox is sort of bad on WiFi? If that makes sense. Like because he needs to be precise. Is this a real set back for me to succeed in for glory? And do other characters have this issue as bad as fox?

 

[M@v]

That is true about the wifi part. I can't stand using Fox on wifi.

 

[horizons889]

Isn't that the same story with Mario too?

 

[Duplighost]

Wifi lag is bad for most character, especially the characters that require you to be precise with inputs (Fox, Sheik, Ryu). I would imagine Mario would have difficulty as well, but not to the same extent as others.

In order to reduce the risk of lag during FG, make sure you're connected to a stable Wifi connection (duh ), and only play opponents with good connection. If you face an opponent who has bad connection, quit after the match ends.

It isn't a real setback for your growth with the character but you will most likely lose some matches due to poor connection. I main Sheik, and there have been countless times in which I have lost due to lag against not as experienced players. It sucks, and is often times intolerable, but do not let that stop you from playing Fox on FG.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hes a top 10 character, regardless if you put him in 5th or 7th (usually the spots he hovers around in most tier lists), top 10 is basically viable.

KOing with Fox can be frustrating since he has no KO throws, so what do you do? You just keep grabbing them everytime they put up shield and pummel pummel pummel. Fox has one of the fastest pummels and it racks up damage, eventually you'll be KOing with one of your fast moves like U-tilt. Other things you can do is try reading air dodges and punishing them with Up-airs.

 

[Turrin]

He's nearly unanimously agreed to be top ten or at least just below that. Personally I'd put at almost exactly ten beneath the super solid top tiers. It's a bit unconventional and I don't see people mention it much, but if you keep getting your opponents at 140+ % before killing, Up-tilt is a great kill move. True, you should always be looking to kill way before that, but it's an extremely easy last-resort option. I end up using it fairly frequently because I'm much better at landing grabs than anything else, but Fox doesn't really have follow-ups. If Fox is really that bad for you in online, try Anther's ladder and/or getting a wired adapter if you don't have one already. I use one and the majority of FG is buttery smooth for me, so practicing Fox is relatively comfortable.

Other things you can do is try reading air dodges and punishing them with Up-airs.

Question I've had about that for a while now - what's a solid method for punishing air-dodges? Fox almost always falls to quickly to bait one out, and you're too far below them to hit once their dodge ends.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Question I've had about that for a while now - what's a solid method for punishing air-dodges? Fox almost always falls to quickly to bait one out, and you're too far below them to hit once their dodge ends.

Off the top of my head;

Low %

• After D-throw, you can do a rising F-air and follow their path. Even if you miss them, you will land before them and be able to hit with U-tilt.
• Dash attack is good for punishing any landing air dodges since it lasts long. Same applies for F-smash, though this is better saved for higher %s when it can KO.

Mid to High %

• After U-tilt, Dash Attack, Side-B, or any of your other moves that pops up opponents:
  + Characters with bad / mediocre air mobility and/or big size can be punished by delaying your U-air. You might have to do jump (which might start the air dodge) -> double jump U-air to reach them after the air dodge. Fox does fall fast but he also has a fast jump.
  + Characters with good air mobility and/or small bodies, sometimes it's easier to just do an empty jump to bait the airdodge and chase their movement along the ground.
• You can also do the latter of the above when punishing landing air dodges, except F-smash in this case would be better.

Keep in mind that you also have multi-hit moves like D-air and F-air which are out for a decent amount of time, and keep in mind that a full-jump F-air rises you and holds you in the air for a little bit. Keep in mind counter moves as well if you play against characters who have them, as air dodges are not their only options.

 

[luke_atyeo]

Question I've had about that for a while now - what's a solid method for punishing air-dodges? Fox almost always falls to quickly to bait one out, and you're too far below them to hit once their dodge ends.

often you can throw out an uair that if they airdodge frame traps them into you being able to utilt them, I often can catch people in a chain of like 4 of these, utilt, go for the uair, they airdodge and I'm ready to punish the airdodge with the next utilt.
If you want to have a good airdodge punish game you HAVE to be able to do short hop auto cancelled uairs while moving consistently.

Also, jumping at an opponent, waiting for their airdodge, and then using your double jump to get in position to punish their airdodge with an uair is an amazing punish that nets you kills and is one of the better ways to kill good players who wont give you openings for smash attacks. You can often set these situations up with uthrow.
In order to do this you HAVE to be able to read opponents aerial movement, you have to lead your target (aim your attacks to where the opponent is moving to, not where they currently are) and be able to react to them changing the direction they are moving. If you are having trouble getting these, you need to work on your own movement as well as learning how to predict your opponents movement.