when you are in a match do you actually think everything through?

[thatoneguy1]

or do you autopilot, like just react without thought like instinctual?

 

[Warzenschwein]

I only start autopiloting when it's either:

• not fun
• too easy

It's not a good thing though. I immediately notice how my overall performance becomes worse. (lose stocks more easily, way too aggressive gameplay)
If I actually want to win or at least perform any good, I simply think about my actions, actually observe what my enemy is doing and what he's probably going to do and then I'm fine.

I never autopilot against someone equally good or better than me, that'd probably lead to an inevitable failure.

 

[Pluid]

I have a very bad habit of autopiloting, no matter who I'm playing

(Remember kids, try not to play against CPU's more than you play actual people.)

 

[Metarai]

The more technical the character is, the more I autopilot and therefore the more I SD. I tend to realize this at last stock and play better, though sometimes its too late.

 

[MLGF]

I'm all reactions, I only think when I keep getting punished for a habit and try to change it.
It works.

PP said something about "thinking comes before the game." and like usual, he's right.

 

[CORY]

talking with some of our local top players, basically, they autopilot, but not really. if you're having to think about what you're doing, you're going to be too slow to play and react to what's happening. you need to be able to autopilot your base strats that you use to tease out their game and habits.

then, you need to be able to use your adjustments quickly without thinking too much on them, too. like "oh, when he approaches, he likes to roll behind me once he feels unsafe!" but you need to be able to react to him approaching you to punish the roll behind without actively devoting too much mental energy to it. and that would need to be how you act with everything. all the active thinking goes to trying to find their patterns and quickly devise a way to exploit them.

 

[Phaiyte]

Every button press needs to be intentional. If you don't know why you pressed the button or don't realize you did it, you're doing something wrong.

 

[thatoneguy1]

I only start autopiloting when it's either:

• not fun
• too easy

It's not a good thing though. I immediately notice how my overall performance becomes worse. (lose stocks more easily, way too aggressive gameplay)
If I actually want to win or at least perform any good, I simply think about my actions, actually observe what my enemy is doing and what he's probably going to do and then I'm fine.

I never autopilot against someone equally good or better than me, that'd probably lead to an inevitable failure.

i always play aggressive in every fighting game, i always choose rushdown characters because people always end up doing stupid and get punished hard for it even when i auto pilot lol.

 

[EddyBearr]

I'm definitely a thinking player, but that's because I'm a melee player picking up P:M. It seems that apart from our absolute top P:M players (who were all, except for 1, melee at first) in Minnesota, they play an autopilot rushdown style. It seems like P:M rewards that style of play over passive-defensive play.

 

[thatoneguy1]

I'm definitely a thinking player, but that's because I'm a melee player picking up P:M. It seems that apart from our absolute top P:M players (who were all, except for 1, melee at first) in Minnesota, they play an autopilot rushdown style. It seems like P:M rewards that style of play over passive-defensive play.

interesting, from my personal experience it seems its easier to play defensively in p:m than melee. It's too easy to run to the other side of the stage and spam (looking at you samus) because the stage list seems to have bigger stages than melee imo.

 

[EddyBearr]

interesting, from my personal experience it seems its easier to play defensively in p:m than melee. It's too easy to run to the other side of the stage and spam (looking at you samus) because the stage list seems to have bigger stages than melee imo.

That'd be more of a super campy playstyle than a defensive one. A defensive playstyle aims to negate your attacks and punish mistakes, as opposed to just not get near hitboxes.

The reason a campy playstyle works better in P:M than melee would be, by my observation, the same reason a super rushdown approach works: attacks in P:M are just too good. So, if a person tries to "punish mistakes" and "negate attacks" in P:M, they're going to have a hard time (much harder to punish, less mistakes are made due to easier game, far less opportunity to coincide with human reaction time to actually punish observed mistakes, attacks are harder to "negate" [EX: Anti-airs, OOS options, shield-grabs]), while a rushdown player has a much stronger rushdown due to moves being better (especially when used with more frequency), and a super campy player has a better camping game due to great zoning from great moves.

 

[Phaiyte]

I'm definitely a thinking player, but that's because I'm a melee player picking up P:M. It seems that apart from our absolute top P:M players (who were all, except for 1, melee at first) in Minnesota, they play an autopilot rushdown style. It seems like P:M rewards that style of play over passive-defensive play.

This is the greatest source of ignorant elitism ever.

 

[NonSequtur]

I really only think during a pause in neutral or a protracted edgeguard. How to be aggressive/how to finish. Everything else happens too fast to try and come up with a plan. You need to have the plan before the combo starts.

 

[someonerandom]

When in the middle of a combo I play on reaction and improvise moves that string into each other, but otherwise...

I think most things through when I play on the offensive because then you can pick up on the opponent's habits and things to get the biggest punishes possible. I always think about my opponent's options when juggling/edge guarding/tech chasing because once you pick up something they favour, you can catch on and get them every time until they switch things up. e.g., Do they like to put as much distance between you as possible? Pick up on that and literally run halfway across the stage because you know they'll roll away from you and keep doing it until they change. Do they always D-air when trying to come down from a juggle? Get out of the way and punish from the side. That stuff wins games, lol.

Likewise, when I'm on the defensive, I always make sure to pick different options if one isn't working (or sometimes pick the same option multiple times intentionally for mindgames, lol) because there are characters that destroy if they can pick up on bad habits.

 

[Phaiyte]

interesting, from my personal experience it seems its easier to play defensively in p:m than melee. It's too easy to run to the other side of the stage and spam (looking at you samus) because the stage list seems to have bigger stages than melee imo.

Because in Melee you totally can't pick Fox/Falco and player laser tag.

 

[Celestis]

My mind is almost always plotting.. But If the opponent is easy, I will mindlessly do things. I always notice when I start auto-piloting because I end up getting punished for silly things.

 

[thatoneguy1]

Because in Melee you totally can't pick Fox/Falco and player laser tag.

never said it was impossible, its just better in pm because practically everyone has good projectiles. Also fox's lasers are not that useful aside from racking up tiny damage or baiting people to approach.

 

[CORY]

baiting people to approach.

that's all they need to do. they're one of the best camping tools in the game because he can make you approach, on his terms, or else just chip you with damage until you get to the point that you can't reliably cc anything/are within usmash range. and the reason they're so dumb for that is that he has the speed and mobility that he does to abuse them, if he so chooses (outside of maybe a few matchups).

fox can both say "you approach me, when i want you to." and "i'll approach you, when i want to." that's HUGE. most characters get to pick one or the other, but he gets both with a crazy strong combo tool (that makes pressure safe) and a really strong set of kill moves.

 

[thatoneguy1]

@ CORY As a fox main I cant stand camping, im playing a fighting game for speed lol. I personally hate playing, watching, and fighting against ultra defensive(campy) play, if i wanted to do that i would play chess.

 

[Lil Puddin]

When I play online I can't afford to turn on autopilot. Thanks to my HD TV without game mode almost all of my opponents have a frame advantage, while I have a frame disadvantage. So I have to constantly read moves to make sure that I do not screw up.

The only thing is that I do sort of autopilot is when I start playing defensive. It means less resources towards knowing which controls I should push and more resources spent on looking at how my opponent moves.

Or I could play a missile spamming Samus. That's as close to autopilot as I can get online.


Offline I can do less reading since the person I am fighting will have the same exact delay as I do. I'll only autopilot if things are too easy. This way the person I am fighting has a chance instead of getting lightning kicked in the face every 3 seconds.

 

[thatoneguy1]

This way the person I am fighting has a chance instead of getting lightning kicked in the face every 3 seconds.

so is playing falcon against scrubs a bad idea then? lol

 

[CORY]

@ CORY As a fox main I cant stand camping, im playing a fighting game for speed lol. I personally hate playing, watching, and fighting against ultra defensive(campy) play, if i wanted to do that i would play chess.

doesn't matter what you like to play. fox can camp, hard. really hard, really well. he can also rush down really well. just because you don't think his lasers are that useful doesn't mean they aren't. the fact that he can force you to approach just by plinking damage little by little and thereby control the pace of the match means he has every option.

(also, i totally thought this was the tier list thread, so now that i've realized the folly of my mistake, i'll actually drop this point ;x i think i'm actually way off topic in this thread...)

 

[Yashichi]

I only start to think when I realize the opponent has picked up on my tendencies. Unfortunately that leads to me playing worse than I already do. It's a tough life being a scrub.

 

[thatoneguy1]

doesn't matter what you like to play. fox can camp, hard. really hard, really well. he can also rush down really well. just because you don't think his lasers are that useful doesn't mean they aren't. the fact that he can force you to approach just by plinking damage little by little and thereby control the pace of the match means he has every option.

(also, i totally thought this was the tier list thread, so now that i've realized the folly of my mistake, i'll actually drop this point ;x i think i'm actually way off topic in this thread...)

idk i feel its relevant, this is part of thinking during a match.

 

[Lil Puddin]

so is playing falcon against scrubs a bad idea then? lol

Yeee. Dat manly zappy knee 2 ez 2 hit.

idk i feel its relevant, this is part of thinking during a match.

But it kind of is relevant. Fox is almost an autopilot friendly character. He has just enough tools to take any position he wants; switching up positions even when he's in the middle of one. Which is a problem, because most of the cast can only choose one position or risk losing their footing. Especially against a fast character like Fox.

It's one of those matchups where the person fighting Fox will most likely be putting in more effort and reading than the person using Fox. Which leads to people complaining about him or spacies.

TL;DR Fox for autopilot president

 

[sushifreAk]

Nope. I'm used to autopiloting since all I play are VS CPU matches. It's hard to find a good sparring partner here..

 

[TreK]

I play mixup based characters. I'm known for my two most often used sentences, which are "Oh, I have an idea" right before landing something silly like footstool-uair-usmash as Ivysaur or cargo dancing with DK, and "dude why did you jump ?" Right after landing a combo where I predicted the opponent would double jump and aim slightly too high.

I like the quote from Dr.pp above, thinking comes before the match. But it doesn't apply to all characters imo : to some characters, doing your homework is just half of the thinking.

 

[Flareon]

I rely entirely on instinct. I always get in trouble when I try to think during matches.

 

[1FD]

1
Making sense of what Auto-Pilot actually is for

Follow the link and read this quote

2
GeZ has a massive thread stikied in the Mario section that would help with a lot of stuff if you wanna check it out.
This part is very related to your topic.

Follow the link and read this quote

3
Or basically any convo between Nausicaa and Anther because they the sexiest
This stuff is all about THINKING and what kinds of things you should be looking for and THINKING ABOUT when in comes to thinking IN GAME type of thing.

Follow the link and read this quote

Follow the link and read this quote

Good luck
Yes I'm another fanboy of his

 

[TreK]

Nausicaa is indeed a wonderful teacher. His use of rhetorical questions makes newcomers and old guys alike think for themselves and he's got the right idea in my opinion in that his creed is "mind matters most". I try to apply the same methods with the newcomers in my region, but there's no word for "awareness" in French (the closest we get is "consciousness" or "alertness" which both have a few differences with what I want to communicate to them) and I'm not exactly eloquent so I simply don't get the job done as efficiently.

 

[1FD]

Here's something he said to me recently that might make it easy.

In short first. You can basically use the word 'attention' instead. (Let's see how my French is) Sulment avec attention pouvet vous compris ce que vous fait maintenent, et sulment quan vous compris les chose qui exist deja, pouvet vous compris comment vous pouvet devenir meilleur.
^That's probably terrible! LMAO
Pay attention to where your attention is/goes.

Most people go about trying to improve themselves/things somehow, but for the most part they have no idea what exists already so they have no idea what needs work/what's fine/etc.

It's like going up to a door and being like "I'm gonna make this door better!"
And then start hammering nails into it as if you're reinforcing the door or fixing it or something.
But you haven't looked at the door at all to know whether you should be putting nails in at all. Maybe you should even be taking nails OUT, but you just started trying to 'improve' something that you're completely not paying any attention to.
^His actions were great but that's the basics of what he was saying.

Instead, pay attention ONLY to what's going on. What's already THERE.
Give attention to the details of the door, figure out what parts of it could use some fixing and what's good about it. It's just like your smash game. Instead of trying to make yourself better at the game or something, just figure out how you SEE THE GAME ALREADY. You obviously see the game a certain way, you look for certain things, you do actions/decisions/pay attention to SOMETHING when you play. For the most part, it's rare for someone to actually pay attention to WTF they're already doing, so improving becomes a silly task. How can you improve your game if you DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR GAME INSIDE AND OUT!?!

Nobody walks up to something like a door and is like "I'm gonna make it better!" and LOOKS for dirt and berry juice spots to wipe clean. You go up to the door, pay attention to the door itself and details about it, and if it's dirty and needs cleaning, THEN you clean it. If not, then you don't.
^
Same idea here. You shouldn't go up to your Smash game and be like "I'm gonna make it better!" and LOOK for ways to improve. Instead, go play Smash, pay attention to where your attention goes (mind activity) itself, and if there's something that needs adjusting, then you'll adjust it because it has come to light. If there's nothing to adjust, then you won't.

Look at what's already there.
Pay attention to what you're paying attention to when you play. Where your attention goes when things are happening.

Nobody INTUITIVELY or INSTINCTIVELY will make them selves WORSE ON PURPOSE. You'll do the opposite.
Simply by becoming aware of what you're already doing, when your faults/strengths come to your attention, you'll improve them. You won't have to TRY to improve them, you just will because you'll know them DEEPLY.

Tl;dr
Pay attention to where you're attention goes, what your mind ALREADY does, and eventually 'awareness' (or just 'attention to what's taking place') will BECOME your auto-pilot, and your auto-pilot will BECOME 'improving'
Cause and effect.
It's sexy.



Basically, whatever you're paying attention to, pay attention to the fact that you're paying attention to that.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Nope. I'm used to autopiloting since all I play are VS CPU matches. It's hard to find a good sparring partner here..

I-I can be your laggy sp-spar-sparring partner, senpai.

 

[Phaiyte]

never said it was impossible, its just better in pm because practically everyone has good projectiles. Also fox's lasers are not that useful aside from racking up tiny damage or baiting people to approach.

With Fox's speed you can literally just run away all match and fire lasers. They actually deal damage in Melee. A **** TON of it. You can easily rack 50+ per stock no problem.

 

[Yasumi]

I almost always play casually, so my matches never really go super seriously. I try to think and plan out my combos and my strategies, but I'm almost always just f-smashing, dair'ing or nair'ing.

I'm not very good.