When to use the Side B Suicide?

[piscaso]

I found myself using this all to often. I use it for either: Winning or resetting percents if we have equal stocks.

I use it too much. At least I think...

It's an okay recovery, but should I use it for that? As sometimes I accidentally grab the opponent and they get pissed off and call me a bad sport... lol

I decided to main him because I guess I really like slow hard hitting characters (I main Dedede first). My friends refuse to play me as Ganon because the one time I fought them I used it to win.

How often do you use it as a suicide? How often SHOULD I use it as a suicide. Because on stage it combos nicely into dtilt and does some nice damage (not to mention troll shulks who have a counter that lasts 10 years).

ALSO: How often do you use the warlock punch and uptilt?

 

[Shmeckie]

If an opponent tries to edgeguard you, and you're slightly above and in front of them, go for it. Especially opponents who get too antsy and try to chase you, running toward the edge. If they're standing at the edge while you're grabbing it, you can release the edge, jump, and choke 'em. When going for a suicide, always pull backward to ensure you get the suicide. You have stronger aerial control moving backward than forward, and unlike moves like Bowser's Side-B the opponent can't influence your pull and fight it. Grab 'em from high enough and you can score a suicide even when they're standing a little farther away from the actual edge (though usually if they're big enough).

Basically, if you see a chance, take it. Identifying the right time to Ganoncide is a big part of learning to play Ganon. It's a powerful tool.

As for U-Tilt and Warlock Punch, they're situational, but they have their uses. U-Tilt can edgeguard without having to leave the ground, and can completely shut down certain characters' recoveries (Dr. Mario will never return from a strong knockback if you use it right, and if Captain Falcon is knocked far enough away you can properly time it and stop him from ever reaching the ledge). You need to have the startup time and explosion range of the U-Tilt memorized, but if you do it makes for one helluva surprise.

Warlock Punch is tricky, but man is it satisfying. It really depends on the character you're fighting, but the super armor is what you want to make use of. The Warlock Punch is the final nail on the Yomi coffin Ganondorf is building for his opponent in every match. If you're completely in your opponent's head, and you know they're gonna bust out an attack that requires significant commitment, bust out the Warlock Punch, armor through their attack, and punish with the fist of the Gods.

The Warlock Punch is basically the final stamp that says "I am in your head completely".

 

[piscaso]

Wow man thanks for the advice!!

So basically just ganonside whenever I get the chance?

 

[MezzoMe]

I use it as a suicide when the opponent shows the chance to it, though several people are ready for it, and it should be used whetever you and your opponent have the same amount of stocks or you have the lead, though if I have the percentage lead, it might not be the best option depending on the character I am facing.
I hardly ever use Warlock Punch since

1. A half-charged FSmash is stronger
2. Hardly ever someone falls for it super armor.

Though I use a reverse Warlock Punch when I shatter my opponent's shield, since it's Ganondorf's strongest attack by a wide margin.
I instead use UTilt pretty often, especially for edgeguarding, since it has low ending lag, being hardly ever punishable if not in the start-up, but he has gigantic range, amplified by a vacuum effect, so you must before reach Ganondorf's back, it might be unsafe on shield, too bad it shatters all of them, and has non-trascendental priority, so any attack that deals less than 10% gets out prioritized if clanking with the explosion, 20% if clanking with the leg, it's especially useful against characters with low range and when people try to assist themselves with air speed or momentum in general to hit you. Also it is highly effective thanks to the air dodge landing lag and the impossibility to plank, making it a safe, powerful move hard to dodge despite his high start-up lag, with range and power being part of him being safe, akin to 's FSmash. Here's a montage of Omega Tyrant showing it

 

[Shogger]

The best times to suicide:

- It's down to 1 stock (suiciding at this point always gives you the win).
- You have equal stocks but a significant percentage disadvantage.
- You are ahead in stocks and think you won't be able to KO your opponent again on your current stock.

The hard part is landing it. The only safe way in my experience is using Side B while recovering, where if you whiff you will grab the ledge or land onstage anyway. Most people, if they're paying attention, won't let you hit them with this.

 

[piscaso]

All of the help is extremely appreciated. Thank you for the Ganonside, Utilt, and WP advice.

 

[The Shadow Emperor]

I've gotten to the point where I use it instinctually regardless of whether it benefits me or not. I should probably try to kick that habit.

 

[Radical Larry]

Always bait and use it. They're bound to use a laggy/short attack.

 

[Opana]

Well my favorite ways to use it include:

-Grounded choke near the edge to run off ganoncide

-Let go of the ledge, jump up, and Ganoncide

-Jump off the ledge, choke into the ledge, hold down to avoid grabbing the ledge to have an active grab for ganonciding

-While coming back to the stage, fast fall but cut it short with a choke to ganoncide punish expected edge guards

-Full hop dair while headed offstage puts you at perfect distance to ganoncide right out of it

-While launched in the air, wizkick down followed by choke out of the animation

-In a tight situation with few options, say about to get hit by Pikachu's Thnder, I'll ganoncide him as he is suspended in the air

These are the setups I often use, some more than others.

 

[Octagon]

I never intend to use it. I use Ganondorfs side b to recover onto the stage horizontally when i don't need to get anywhere vertically so i use it but then in free for all someone is launched to my side b and we both go crashing down...

 

[Matty89]

I found myself using this all to often. I use it for either: Winning or resetting percents if we have equal stocks.

I use it too much. At least I think...

It's an okay recovery, but should I use it for that? As sometimes I accidentally grab the opponent and they get pissed off and call me a bad sport... lol

I decided to main him because I guess I really like slow hard hitting characters (I main Dedede first). My friends refuse to play me as Ganon because the one time I fought them I used it to win.

How often do you use it as a suicide? How often SHOULD I use it as a suicide. Because on stage it combos nicely into dtilt and does some nice damage (not to mention troll shulks who have a counter that lasts 10 years).

ALSO: How often do you use the warlock punch and uptilt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvc2Ryep0rI&t=176

 

[Xinc]

Honestly, it's a risk. My Ganoncide attempts only work around half the time, mainly to intercept charged Smash Attacks. It doesn't clash, but if timed correctly, it'll catch before the smash comes out.

 

[MrAnimorie]

My favorite times to use it is when we have Macs, Marths, Lucinas or smash attack edge guard types of people who sit too close. Ff and when they dodge however, feint your jump recovery to actually get that second shot at it.

 

[Tino]

I use it only when my opponent gets too close to the edge and drop their guard.

 

[FP-Takyon]

Usually to reset damage percentages if at equal stocks and a sizeable damage deficit, or at stock lead. On rare occasions I'll use it if I'm losing badly in friendlies to go out in a blaze of glory.

YOLOcides off stage dunks for ultimate disrespect.

 

[Z1GMA]

The best times to suicide:

- It's down to 1 stock (suiciding at this point always gives you the win).
- You have equal stocks but a significant percentage disadvantage.
- You are ahead in stocks and think you won't be able to KO your opponent again on your current stock.

The hard part is landing it. The only safe way in my experience is using Side B while recovering, where if you whiff you will grab the ledge or land onstage anyway. Most people, if they're paying attention, won't let you hit them with this.

Pretty much what Shogger says.
I'd like to add, though:

Let's say you're playing 3stock, and the current score looks like this:
11% / 24%
You've got one stock more, and also a bit of %-lead - I'd still go for the Gancide since you'd lose only 1/3 of your stocks while Sheik lost 1/2 of hers.

After the Ganoncide the score would look like this:
0% / 0%
As you can see, it puts you at an even greater advantage.

 

[Nintenbro_Zeke]

Keep in mind if you're opponent has been caught before with the Ganoncide he'll bait it, roll back, and punish since the landing lag is ridiculous. Try to use it to sweet spot the ledge (But use it full distance the grab is, cause the closer you use it you'll still charge and be easily punished with a down smash).

I use it when at a huge % disadvantage or when jumping off stage for the ultimate Yolo!