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What's Wrong With Monsanto, Exactly?

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So. Monsanto. Commonly referred to as one of the most evil corporations in the world. Opposition to them has gathered massive support; "March Against Monsanto" was an event all over the world. But I have yet to figure out precisely why this company has garnered so much hatred. I'll make no reservations about my support in general for biotechnology; advances in agriculture, in particular GMOs, hold massive promise to stabilize our food supply, reduce starvation, and generally do good things, and the scientific backing for it is fairly strong. So why is Monsanto the bad guy here? What puppy did they kick?
 

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So. Monsanto. Commonly referred to as one of the most evil corporations in the world. Opposition to them has gathered massive support; "March Against Monsanto" was an event all over the world. But I have yet to figure out precisely why this company has garnered so much hatred. I'll make no reservations about my support in general for biotechnology; advances in agriculture, in particular GMOs, hold massive promise to stabilize our food supply, reduce starvation, and generally do good things, and the scientific backing for it is fairly strong. So why is Monsanto the bad guy here? What puppy did they kick?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer_Assurance_Provision
 

LightlyToasted

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I can understand why some people would be upset about deregulation of GMOs but isn't it ultimately up to the consumer. It allows them to sell and produce the seeds/crops while it is being analyzed, and STILL can be banned as long once its impact is researched and finalized? If a crop has a negative side effect and it is made public knowledge, Monsanto or any other producer should already be incentivized to develop safe GMO food because dumping a great deal of money into R&D and production only to have a plant halted by the USDA would be financial loss. In theory anyway. This argument is assuming intelligent consumer behavior.
 
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Ah, the "Monsanto Protection Act". Or, as I like to call it, the "Farmer Protection Act". Which, ironically, is just about what it's called. It does nothing to protect Monsanto directly, or anyone producing GMO foods; all it does is ensure that in the case of procedural challenges to GMO safety, farmers don't have to uproot their crops while the EPA and FDA make super double sure that everything is okay.

http://geneticliteracyproject.org/2...ction-act-separating-the-facts-from-the-fury/

Beyond that, the USDA cannot approve a new seed variety until it conducts an Environmental Assessment (EA). This is the point in the process where anti-biotech activists and lawyers do their best to gum up the works in hopes of generating a critical mass of negative public opinion.

By law, the EA must consider any and all factors relating to the “human environment,” which is very ambiguously defined, encompassing human health and leaving all kinds of legal openings for hostile groups to target. If a group such as the Center for Food Safety or the Institute of Responsible Technology or the Union of Concerned Scientists challenges the EA for not considering one issue or another, the assessment can be deemed insufficient and a new one must be ordered.


In fact, this has happened twice in recent years, with alfalfa and sugar beets. Alfalfa hay, a nutritious, easily digestible livestock feed, is an $8 billion a year business and country’s fourth-most-valuable crop. Monsanto makes GM alfalfa seeds, as part of the company’s Roundup Ready line. They are genetically modified to tolerate glyphosate, the herbicide commercially known as Roundup.

[...]

After an exhaustive review, the USDA gave Roundup Ready Alfalfa the green light in 2005. But the Center for Food Safety contended that the government hadn’t adequately evaluated the potential environmental consequences. In 2007, in Monsanto Co. v. Geertson Seed Farms, a federal court agreed with the Center for Food Safety, prohibiting Monsanto from selling Roundup Ready Alfalfa pending yet another assessment.

This was incredibly disruptive to thousands of farmers, who had planted alfalfa, which is a perennial crop so does not have to be reseeded each year. The legal status of a field of GM alfalfa planted legally after the USDA had deregulated GE alfalfa was suddenly changed under the court ruling. Farmers were being told that they had to follow a new set rules in handling their crop. For more than four years, they didn’t know if the technology was going to be available for their use. The confusion and patchwork of conflicting regulations, court decisions and labeling requirements dealt a sizable economic blow to one of the country’s most important export crops.

[...]

In 2010, the Center for Food Safety and some organic farmers who stood to gain by attacking conventional and GM crops convinced a court on procedural grounds—there was no finding of environmental or health dangers—to void the five-year-old approval of transgenic sugar beet seeds. Despite no evidence of any potential harm, that November, a federal judge ordered the GE sugar beet seedlings—all but 5% of the nation’s beet crop—pulled from the ground, as required by law. If the decision had stood, it could have destroyed as much as half of America’s granulated sugar production on purely technical grounds.
The Farmer Assurance Provision is a common-sense regulation put in place to protect our food crops from overzealous regulation and procedural challenges. Keep in mind that none of these challenges are actually based on any sound science. The Center for Food Safety didn't bring forward peer-reviewed papers documenting harm from using GM beets. They simply alleged that the environmental assessment was insufficient, which is trivially easy to do because the rules surrounding environmental assessments are so broad and vague. If the CFS had gotten its way, it would have destroyed almost half of this nation's sugar supply that year, causing billions of dollars in damages.

And even if this bill were somehow squashing people's freedoms, how is this evidence of Monsanto being evil or bad, exactly? What does this even have to do with Monsanto? They probably like it, but it was in the law for 9 months before it passed.
 

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So. How much do you think you actually know with respect to genetic modification of crops?

If you had to self-evaluate yourself from a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the level of confidence in your knowledge that a genetically modified piece of BT corn for instance with a swapped gene for an insecticide won't have any adverse effects on the the ecology of the immediate area given the targeted insects will die post-digestion?

How confident are you that the bugs that digest said variant of corn will die or won't develop resistance, therefore resulting in new strains needing to be developed on farms that farmers need to purchase again? How much confidence do you put in chemicals like Round Up being used in conjunction with GMOs to the extent that the environment will be less taxed by these variants?

GMOs are safe for everyone right? That's why they don't need to be distinguished from non-GMO crops at the super market rather than big private companies like Monsanto simply waiting for all crop species to become like soy and have a 99% majority on all agricultural crops therefore when the legislation goes through people can only pick between one GMO brand or another?

See what I don't understand isn't Monsanto because they're in for the money like any other corporation. What I don't understand are people who waste time posting a rhetorical question to something they clearly have a developed opinion on and are merely feigning ignorance in some attempt to lecture others on their own solidified belief system.

People are ****ing ridiculous.
 
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So. How much do you think you actually know with respect to genetic modification of crops?

If you had to self-evaluate yourself from a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the level of confidence in your knowledge that a genetically modified piece of BT corn for instance with a swapped gene for an insecticide won't have any adverse effects on the the ecology of the immediate area given the targeted insects will die post-digestion?
Personally? About a 3. This is why I look to the scientific authorities - people like the USDA, FDA, EPA, CDC, AMA, major universities, the peer-reviewed literature - and try to get a feel for the scientific consensus. They're a lot closer to 10 than you might think. Now, individual specific issues - things like the Seralini et al. 2012, the safety of Bt-delta-endotoxin - those are more like a 7. But general ecology? I'm not 100% there. But the USDA sure seems to be.

How confident are you that the bugs that digest said variant of corn will die or won't develop resistance, therefore resulting in new strains needing to be developed on farms that farmers need to purchase again?
You just described a problem that exists with literally every form of pest control in existence. Even crop rotation is something they adapt to. No, Seriously. The fact that they may develop resistance is unfortunate. That said, not using a pesticide because at some later date it may stop being useful is a waste of time - the only difference you've made is that now the pesticide has stopped being a factor now, rather than whenever the pests evolve to deal with it. And if that happens, Bt/RoundUp Ready crops will stop being useful or profitable, and farmers will stop buying them. They purchase the seed each year anyways; now, they'll just purchase some other seed.

How much confidence do you put in chemicals like Round Up being used in conjunction with GMOs to the extent that the environment will be less taxed by these variants?
Could you rephrase this? I don't get what you're asking. "How confident am I that GMOs are good for the environment"? Is that what you're asking?

GMOs are safe for everyone right?
This is what the overwhelming scientific consensus, backed by virtually every significant government body in the western world, says, yes. At least, the ones currently commercially available.

That's why they don't need to be distinguished from non-GMO crops at the super market rather than big private companies like Monsanto simply waiting for all crop species to become like soy and have a 99% majority on all agricultural crops therefore when the legislation goes through people can only pick between one GMO brand or another?
Monsanto has no interest in shutting down things like the "Non-GMO certified" label (voluntary certification programs), nor do they have any problem with it. They're after a bigger market share, but at no point do they seek underhanded political tactics for this. The fact is that mandatory GMO labeling will be phenomenally expensive and kinda pointless, as there are virtually no detectable differences. The only times where there are significant differences on the user end, it's almost always the kind of thing you specifically market for - things like the Arctic Apple or the Innate Potato, which have been genetically modified for an end-user benefit.

See what I don't understand isn't Monsanto because they're in for the money like any other corporation. What I don't understand are people who waste time posting a rhetorical question to something they clearly have a developed opinion on and are merely feigning ignorance in some attempt to lecture others on their own solidified belief system.
I'm still looking for an answer that makes any sense. I'm grasping for any reason for so many people to act this irrationally. And I'm asking like this because I genuinely am interested in the responses. Maybe there's something I missed. Millions of people motivated enough to hit the streets in protest can't all be this scientifically illiterate and bad at fact-checking, can they?

I mean, what about your response? I ask "what's wrong with Monsanto" and you give me the "Monsanto Protection Act". That's bizarre - that's not something Monsanto did, and you don't even make the case that it's a bad law (it isn't).
 
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As an analogy, Monsanto is to our world what Shinra was to Final Fantasy VII.
Okay, now can we back up that analogy with anything? I never played FF7, but from what I've gathered Shinra is basically a company that forms an evil dictatorship, holding monopolistic sway over the world's energy supply (destroying the planet's life force in the process) and military might to rival the mightiest nations. I understand that this is an analogy many people might find apt, what I don't understand is why. What has Monsanto done, specifically, that even comes close to that? You might as well claim that John Hopkins is the Umbrella Corporation of our world - that's nice, but if I'm trying to understand why you think John Hopkins is evil, unless I can find their recently crafted "take-over-the-world-with-zombies" wing, this doesn't help me at all.
 
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Claire Diviner

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Okay, now can we back up that analogy with anything? I never played FF7, but from what I've gathered Shinra is basically a company that forms an evil dictatorship, holding monopolistic sway over the world's energy supply (destroying the planet's life force in the process) and military might to rival the mightiest nations. I understand that this is an analogy many people might find apt, what I don't understand is why. What has Monsanto done, specifically, that even comes close to that? You might as well claim that John Hopkins is the Umbrella Corporation of our world - that's nice, but if I'm trying to understand why you think John Hopkins is evil, unless I can find their recently crafted "take-over-the-world-with-zombies" wing, this doesn't help me at all.
It's an analogy with the way they treat the environment.
 
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That youtube piece is not exactly what I'd call well-researched. The history of Monsanto is dotted with issues, but the section about GMOs has some serious issues. For starters, the science linking neonicotids to bee death is, to put it bluntly, bad science. Additionally, due to the neonicotid ban, european farmers have had to switch to other methods - methods that we know are bad for bees. The claim that you need to use glyphosate on roundup ready crops is similarly not true; you don't have to, it's just a waste if you don't (you might as well get heirloom seeds at that point).

The most important thing it brings up is perhaps that 3 different companies own something like 53% of the seed market. This is slightly concerning, but keep in mind that that's still barely over half, spread over 3 different companies, and it's still quite trivial to find heirloom seeds from other sources. Seriously, it's not hard - there are plenty of places to go.

And then we get to the lawsuits. First it throws out some "big" numbers as thought they meant anything significant. 410 farmers sued! 124 cases won! Except that Monsanto is a huge multinational corporation - according to their numbers, 275,000 people buy their seed each year. 124 cases since 1997 is not a very large number when you take into account the number of customers they've had since then. And then it delves into Percy Schmeisser... No, the company's argument in that case wasn't "We have to protect our IP", it was "Your field is 95-98% RoundUp Ready Canola. That doesn't happen by accident." And they were right - Schmeisser had taken seed of theirs which had blown around the edges of his field, then harvested it and purified it in an attempt to get the advantages of RoundUp Ready crops without having to pay for it. Monsanto did not sue him because of trace contamination, they sued him because he took that trace and intentionally ran with it. You can't do that. Then he goes on to talk about the Monsanto Protection act, which we covered - it's not just refuted by the company, it's refuted by reading the text of the bill.

Then there's the Wikipedia article, and I'm honestly not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at there. Reading through the first few sections, I'm not seeing the objectionable part. There's a handful of cases involving chemical dumping that are definitely bad, but not enough to paint Monsanto as "evil incarnate" (you'd be surprised how often that happens with companies of all stripes); indeed, what I see is them winning most of their court cases.

The Modern Farmer article is considerably more nuanced, but it also does nothing to paint Monsanto as evil.
 
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They're too entranced with money to give a crap about our health and instead are frolicking in their mountains of money. They're also suing Vermont for passing a law for the labeling of products with GMOs. (AKA Suing for cutting into their profits)
 
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They're too entranced with money to give a crap about our health
So what are you saying here? That they're not explicitly caring about our health, or that they're actually pushing products that are dangerous to our health?

If the former, welcome to every single food processor ever. However, they also don't seem to be doing quite so much harm as others. Their big breakout plant products are virtually identical to the previous versions when it comes to nutrition and toxicity, and their breakout pesticide is something like 200 times less toxic than the previous industry standard.

If the latter, can you back it up?

and instead are frolicking in their mountains of money.
Again, this is called being a corporation. The bottom line is the bottom line. However, here's an important point: if it turns out that this stuff is dangerous, or toxic, then how's that bottom line gonna look after the lawsuits? Not very good, I imagine. Especially if it turns out they were covering it up.

They're also suing Vermont for passing a law for the labeling of products with GMOs. (AKA Suing for cutting into their profits)
This is a phenomenally stupid decision on their part that's going to come back to bite them in the ass. Looking at the actual justification for the case (by the way, you do know that Monsanto isn't the plaintiff, right? They're a part of the GMA, a coalition of numerous agriculture companies, restaurants, and grocers.), once you dig a little deeper there's some merit to it, but I doubt that it's enough, and most people won't understand that - they'll just see what they want to see, a corporation ****ting all over the "little guy". Never mind that labeling laws make no sense. It's just really, really bad, stupid PR.
 
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Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. Who knows.
 

Braydon

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We have almost no actual understanding of genetics. We don't understand everything that makes up the human genome, and we sure don't know what makes up the genes of all our vegetables. Now Monsanto is splicing those genes that they do not understand fully together, and then not testing to see if the product is safe, before selling it for consumption, with no labeling.

No guarantee it's not going to wind up giving you cancer, and they're not going to even let you know whether or not you're eating it. They won't take measures to assure it won't wind up giving you cancer.

So how can a company that likes to gamble with unaware people's health be seen as evil?
 
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We have almost no actual understanding of genetics. We don't understand everything that makes up the human genome, and we sure don't know what makes up the genes of all our vegetables.
Who is this "we"? Don't project your own ignorance onto geneticists. The field of genetics has moved forward by leaps and bounds - we understand the genetic code of various plants extremely well. If we didn't, the types of genetic manipulation we perform would not be possible. Just to bring up one example: we understand the genetics of the tomato well enough to deactivate the specific gene responsible for the specific enzyme that causes bruising. We're not taking shots in the dark here. And even if we were...

Now Monsanto is splicing those genes that they do not understand fully together, and then not testing to see if the product is safe,
There is extensive safety testing! Even if we were just taking shots in the dark, the fact is that GMOs undergo an impressive amount of testing before hitting the market. In fact, one of the go-to tests is the "equivalency" test - checking to make sure that the protein expression of the new plant is equivalent to that of the old plant save for the targeted gene. If this is the case and we know what the changed protein does, then there's essentially no mechanism by which it could be harmful.

No guarantee it's not going to wind up giving you cancer,
You know what else we have no guarantee of? That Super Smash Bros WiiU won't give us cancer.

I mean, sure, there's no viable mechanism how this particular game would so differentiate itself from every other video game, and also no viable mechanism how video games would significantly differentiate themselves from other forms of electromagnetic radiation in the same spectrum, and no viable mechanism how electromagnetic radiation in that spectrum could cause cancer, but unlike GMOs, there actually has been no testing whatsoever whether or not SSBU causes cancer!

...See how silly this gets? The idea that GMOs somehow require far more exhaustive safety testing than, say, typical hybridization, which involves basically irradiating plant seeds until a batch turns up with a mutation you want (hey, you want "taking a shot in the dark"?)... It's ludicrous. We know what we're doing, and the existing safety testing is beyond exhaustive. Or, in other words:

They won't take measures to assure it won't wind up giving you cancer.
This is just hilariously wrong on multiple levels.

and they're not going to even let you know whether or not you're eating it.
Well yes, Monsanto is against GMO labeling laws. Mostly because public perception of GMOs is exceedingly negative, and this is completely unreflected by the scientific literature. There's no reason to label GMO products because the ones on the market that aren't marketed for a specific consumer benefit ("Inherent" potatoes, "Arctic" apples - brands where the GMO label is part and parcel with the marketing) are essentially equivalent to more traditional varieties in virtually every way. There's simply no real difference for the end consumer. So what does mandatory labeling do? Well, two things:

Firstly, It implies that GMOs are somehow worth labeling. Like, imagine if there was a new mandatory label on food, "Warning - contains azodicarbonamide". What would this tell you? Not just that the product contained azodicarbonamide, but that this was something you should care about. That azodicarbonamide is somehow dangerous. Except it isn't. Azodicarbonamide is a chemical used to make bread rise faster which burns away in the baking process. It is not dangerous. Similarly, GMOs are not dangerous. The entire scientific literature along with virtually every relevant scientific expertise in the western world from the AMA to the FDA to the EFSA agrees - they're as safe as traditional crops. So why label it?

Secondly, it's really expensive. It would require extensive changes to the supply chain of farmers, which would be massively costly.


So how can a company that likes to gamble with unaware people's health be seen as evil?
Because many people don't have a clue what they're talking about.
 

Braydon

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So you work for Monsanto don't you?

You're right I'm sure Monsanto has never sold anything as tested and safe, and had it wind up killing anything.

Except DDT, and agent orange.

I should trust these people who will do anything for money with my life. Actually I should be forced to trust them, why should I be allowed a choice.

You know what else we have no guarantee of? That Super Smash Bros WiiU won't give us cancer.
That's why you don't ingest it.
 
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So you work for Monsanto don't you?
Because that's the only way one could defend a corporation. Imagine if someone told you Nintendo was the most evil gaming corporation - you'd probably have a few words on the subject, no? I certainly would.

You're right I'm sure Monsanto has never sold anything as tested and safe, and had it wind up killing anything.

Except DDT, and agent orange.
Neither of these were invented by or exclusively produced by Monsanto.

The human health effects of DDT are tenuous at best, and it should be noted that its widespread use predates the medical revolution that basically wrote the book on clinical trials, as well as the founding of both the EPA and the modern environmentalism movement. It was a mistake, a scientific misstep that was addressed relatively quickly and with relatively low overall fallout. The question of "is it safe" was, when DDT first hit the market, not something that could be addressed very thoroughly. I'm not sure that it was addressed at all.

When it comes to agent orange, the claim that they "sold it as tested and safe" is downright wrong.
The government set the specifications for making Agent Orange and determined when, where and how it was used. Agent Orange was only produced for, and used by, the government.
Asian Affairs Specialist Michael Martin notes, “[a]t the time the herbicides were used, there was little consideration within the U.S. military about potential long-term environmental and health effects of the widespread use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.”
It was not sold to the general public, it was not tested by Monsanto (as the specifications came directly from the US government), and safety was not considered a concern by the US government. And given the sources I'm reading, I'm having trouble understanding if the real problem with agent orange (TCDD, a dioxin compound) was a natural by-product of the manufacture of agent orange, or an accidental contamination. And yes, I'm aware of the problems of citing their own website, but the first claim is easily found on sites like Wikipedia, and the latter contains its own source.

Either way, though, these issues should be moot. The part of Monsanto actually still referred to as "Monsanto" is the agricultural division of what used to be a much larger company. This happened a mere decade or so ago, and they ditched the chemicals division - you know, the guys responsible for DDT and Agent Orange? They're no longer a part of Monsanto.


I should trust these people who will do anything for money with my life. Actually I should be forced to trust them, why should I be allowed a choice.
No. You should trust:
- The extensive independent research done on the subject of GMO safety
- The extensive analysis of various government agencies on GMO and pesticide safety

Nobody's asking you to just blindly trust Monsanto. The days when a company could just put a product like this out on the market, no-questions-asked, are long gone (due in no small part to DDT). GMOs undergo extensive testing, and I already linked you several resources where you can take a look at some of the safety studies performed. And of course, if the FDA is unconvinced by the evidence, they can refuse to approve the product.

And I already explained to you the problems with labeling. There's no good reason to mandate a GMO label, it would be incredibly costly, and nothing is stopping you for only buying organic food. Voluntary organic/gmo-free labeling is already a thing, and is encouraged by everyone from the FDA to Monsanto itself. But if you're paranoid about established safety data and want to avoid it, then the onus should be on you to find food that you aren't afraid of, not everyone else to cater to your (expensive) paranoia.

That's why you don't ingest it.
*sigh*
 
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Braydon

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Yes there are loads of "independent researchers" that Monsanto just happens to "donate" large sums of money to.

There are also legitimate researchers that have shown adverse effects to health caused by consuming GMOs.

Saying the FDA would protect us if it's dangerous? That's a joke right? The FDA does what ever it's lobbied or bribed to do, it has nothing to do with health and safety.


The only people who support it are people who are paid to, or don't know what they're talking about, and go around quoting Monsanto's web page. You want to know why it's legal? In their state Monsanto makes the largest donations to both Republican and Democratic campaigns.
 
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Yes there are loads of "independent researchers" that Monsanto just happens to "donate" large sums of money to.
For example? I mean, here's a list of studies the GENERA database has listed as having a non-industry funding source. Care to point out a few that Monsanto donated money to?

There are also legitimate researchers that have shown adverse effects to health caused by consuming GMOs.
For example?

Saying the FDA would protect us if it's dangerous? That's a joke right? The FDA does what ever it's lobbied or bribed to do, it has nothing to do with health and safety.
How do you back this statement up?

The only people who support it are people who are paid to, or don't know what they're talking about, and go around quoting Monsanto's web page.
Okay, if you don't like me citing the Monsanto web page, let's try something else. The points I was trying to make were:
- The government designed and was the only buyer of agent orange
- The government did not seem to care about how civilians would react to agent orange (page 18 is the best quote)
- Monsanto was not responsible for testing it (rather, the responsible party was the Department of Defense)

Any objections to those sources?
 

Braydon

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You know, I wouldn't care to site my sources. You ask this question and then write condescending crap to anyone who responds. It's not worth it.

You want an answer to your question go find it yourself I'm done.
 
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You know, I wouldn't care to site my sources. You ask this question and then write condescending crap to anyone who responds. It's not worth it.

You want an answer to your question go find it yourself I'm done.
Have I been condescending? I hope not. What I have done is try to support my points, and offered you plenty of berth to support the claims you made. The moment I asked you to back up what you were saying... You decide it isn't worth your time? Dude, this is the debate hall, not the "come in here and make random bull**** assertions" hall.
 

Braydon

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Have I been condescending? I hope not. What I have done is try to support my points, and offered you plenty of berth to support the claims you made. The moment I asked you to back up what you were saying... You decide it isn't worth your time? Dude, this is the debate hall, not the "come in here and make random bull**** assertions" hall.
Really? You don't see how calling what I say random bull**** assertions can be seen as condescending? The second sentence of your first post in response to me reads, "don't project your own ignorance onto geneticists." You don't see how calling me ignorant can be seen as condescending?
 

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I dislike the dubious connections and choices they have made, their president also being Deputy Commissioner for Foods is a bit alarming. But beyond or even including those, every possible issue I perceived with them was one our government is the root cause for, or not even an issue at all. Thus I'd prefer movements dedicated to demand more transparent government than MAM.
 
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Braydon

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I dislike the dubious connections and choices they have made, their president also being Deputy Commissioner for Foods is a bit alarming. But beyond or even including those, every possible issue I perceived with them was one our government is the root cause for, or not even an issue at all. Thus I'd prefer movements dedicated to demand more transparent government than MAM.
I'm sorry, why do you think the government allows them to get away with anything they want?

They make the biggest "donations" to both republican and democratic candidates campaigns in their state, ensuring no matter who wins they are in their pocket. They're also make massive "donations" on the national scale. Politicians will let them get away with murder to keep the bribe donation money flowing.
 
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I'm sorry, why do you think the government allows them to get away with anything they want?
Why do you think the government does this at all? I don't think they do. Could you please explain why you think this? Or provide evidence that, as you previously claimed:

The FDA does what ever it's lobbied or bribed to do, it has nothing to do with health and safety.
Given that I've heard about numerous cases where the FDA has rejected big-ticket drugs from major pharmaceutical companies, I simply do not believe you. Can you please provide evidence?
 
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