Yoshi is a strong character, with fast moves, a strong projectile, and one of the best, if not the best, command grabs in the game. Despite this, Yoshi has barely made a splash on the national scale. I'm trying to understand why this is.
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What's with the lack of Yoshi Players?
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Pixel_
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2015
- Messages
- 881
Yoshi is generally agreed to have bad matchups against all the top tiers (Cloud, Diddy, Bayo, etc.). With the popularity of these characters, it's hard to get very far without constantly playing losing matchups.
I'd also say the strengths you listed are somewhat incorrect. His projectile is slow and reactable, his command grab has practically no guaranteed followups, and his moves are definitely slower than what some people make them to be.
I think it's generally agreed that Yoshi can compete, it's just hard, basically.
I'd also say the strengths you listed are somewhat incorrect. His projectile is slow and reactable, his command grab has practically no guaranteed followups, and his moves are definitely slower than what some people make them to be.
I think it's generally agreed that Yoshi can compete, it's just hard, basically.
Alright. That makes sense. Sorry for incorrect information as I'm relatively new to the character.
Chief Hotsuin
Smash Journeyman
As a Corrin player, l feel like he really eases the Fox match-up some. Maybe he could end up being a counter-pick character like Meta Knight?
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I'm struggling to think of any important match up where Yoshi would be a better pick than some top tier character. So I suppose Yoshi could have use in the manner you describe, but I'm not sure if he's even optimal for such a thing.
HOWEVER, that's just a numbers game. I've always believed this and I'll put it out there: Character Comfort Matters. Some people will just "click" with Yoshi, and that will make him a better choice for that person.
Shameful Plug: I was considered to be pretty good at Brawl at some point. People told me Yoshi was holding me back. I was stubborn, but late in the game's lifespan I tried to pick up Meta Knight. I couldn't do it. At all. Call me scrub, noob, quitter, whatever, but I just couldn't get MK to work for me. My Yoshi was infinitely better than my MK would ever be. Maybe it was all the practice I put into Yoshi not carrying over, but MK felt super clunky and weird to handle, and my brain just didn't connect with him as well as it did to Yoshi. This is why I started playing Yoshi in the first place.
SO! That silliness out of the way, I use it as an example for people who may also feel similarly. IF you are looking for another character or secondary to pick up, try all the viable ones (or not so viable ones) that you want. Pick one that feels good to you. Don't force yourself to try to mold to some character that functions in a way that runs against what your brain wants to do. You must feel at ease with your character so you can focus on your opponent. That's how to win.
If you can pick up any top tier and it feels good to you, great! I really don't recommend Yoshi in that case. If you currently have a Yoshi and want to move up, try it out! If top tiers feel good, go for it if you really want that competitive edge. But if Yoshi is the only character you really feel natural with, don't spend inordinate amounts of time trying to switch. You might be better off developing a really deep understanding of the game through a natural vessel. These skills are quite transferable across Smash games and most games in general, in my opinion.
___________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: Most people should be able to overcome initial clunkiness with a character given enough practice. Really give each character you want to try an honest try. You can teach an old dog new tricks, in most cases.
HOWEVER, that's just a numbers game. I've always believed this and I'll put it out there: Character Comfort Matters. Some people will just "click" with Yoshi, and that will make him a better choice for that person.
Shameful Plug: I was considered to be pretty good at Brawl at some point. People told me Yoshi was holding me back. I was stubborn, but late in the game's lifespan I tried to pick up Meta Knight. I couldn't do it. At all. Call me scrub, noob, quitter, whatever, but I just couldn't get MK to work for me. My Yoshi was infinitely better than my MK would ever be. Maybe it was all the practice I put into Yoshi not carrying over, but MK felt super clunky and weird to handle, and my brain just didn't connect with him as well as it did to Yoshi. This is why I started playing Yoshi in the first place.
SO! That silliness out of the way, I use it as an example for people who may also feel similarly. IF you are looking for another character or secondary to pick up, try all the viable ones (or not so viable ones) that you want. Pick one that feels good to you. Don't force yourself to try to mold to some character that functions in a way that runs against what your brain wants to do. You must feel at ease with your character so you can focus on your opponent. That's how to win.
If you can pick up any top tier and it feels good to you, great! I really don't recommend Yoshi in that case. If you currently have a Yoshi and want to move up, try it out! If top tiers feel good, go for it if you really want that competitive edge. But if Yoshi is the only character you really feel natural with, don't spend inordinate amounts of time trying to switch. You might be better off developing a really deep understanding of the game through a natural vessel. These skills are quite transferable across Smash games and most games in general, in my opinion.
___________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: Most people should be able to overcome initial clunkiness with a character given enough practice. Really give each character you want to try an honest try. You can teach an old dog new tricks, in most cases.
Pixel_
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2015
- Messages
- 881
This post is actually really good, mind if I post it on Twitter/Discord (with credit of course)?
Even though its been answer already, at that point counterpicking with Yoshi has next to no benefits when there's better characters to pick up for certain matchups. Sheik or Ryu for comboing or killing super early is much better pick ups than Yoshi.
People from either Japan or the west have been doing DK bowser and Wario character cps cause they tend to either abuse rage really hard or have a good kill combo.
Yoshi unfortunately is a fairly fair character with the most stupid thing about him is having a 32-34% dair, he's good at comboing (for this quotes example) fox/fast fallers but cloud/sheik is just as good at that.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Not a problem. Glad I could be of some help.
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YoshiYoshi
Smash Apprentice
Yoshi was a lot better before the DLC characters and before the buffs to miscellaneous characters. There was a period of time after the Diddy Kong nerfs and before the 'everyone gets a hoo-hah' buffs that Yoshi could have won major tournaments. Unfortunately, the amount of practice and labbing required to bring Yoshi to competitive levels left the character without enough time to establish anything.
I'm of the opinion that the Sheik and ZSS MUs weren't that bad - that meta was Yoshi's time to shine. However, the DLC comes around and everyone else gets buffed to compensate (like Bowser becoming a brainless grab combo, Marth becoming brain-dead all together, etc.), but Yoshi remained as is.
The community from the very beginning had a bias against the character based on initial For Glory experiences that lasted way longer than it was due. Yeah, this character who depends on frame 21 B-reverses, wonky hitboxes, frame 11-16 side aerials, marginal tilts, fatally flawed shield radius, etc was OP flowchart character like Ryu. Sure. The community always had Yoshi wrong and it's probably going to take until the game is dead that Yoshi's disadvantage is put under true perspective.
I'm of the opinion that the Sheik and ZSS MUs weren't that bad - that meta was Yoshi's time to shine. However, the DLC comes around and everyone else gets buffed to compensate (like Bowser becoming a brainless grab combo, Marth becoming brain-dead all together, etc.), but Yoshi remained as is.
The community from the very beginning had a bias against the character based on initial For Glory experiences that lasted way longer than it was due. Yeah, this character who depends on frame 21 B-reverses, wonky hitboxes, frame 11-16 side aerials, marginal tilts, fatally flawed shield radius, etc was OP flowchart character like Ryu. Sure. The community always had Yoshi wrong and it's probably going to take until the game is dead that Yoshi's disadvantage is put under true perspective.
Baconbasket
Smash Cadet
I'll beat ANY top tier with the dynamic dino. 
I always thought yoshi is very weird character to fight and demand a very well-knowledge to be able to beat him. I destroyed players who litterally din't get a thing about how to fight him. But now, years have passed and meeting those players become less common. B-reversing become unsafe, landing is difficult and top tier destroy your options. You will have to play without counting on Yoshi's unsafe trick and so, your neutral became crap (no grab overall). Fortunately, we still have good weapons, but we have to adapt..
Every time I see a Yoshi's winning on stream, I have this feeling that the other player didn't know the MU.
Every time I see a Yoshi's winning on stream, I have this feeling that the other player didn't know the MU.
Absolutely agreed. Although Yosh is definitely a stronger character than he was in Brawl, I can't help but feel that I only do well with him because people don't really understand how to play against an enigmatic character like Yosh.