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What's the reason to live?
- Thread starter AveryisAwesome
- Start date
HermitNoob
Smash Rookie
The reason to live? It's to play smash. After all, this is a smash forum.
Xivii
caterpillar feet
The purpose of human beings is to create a life form that supersedes all previous life forms. Humans are simply a step in the chemical process that has been playing out since the birth of this verse. The goal of matter is to create more complex matter. It began with a collapse within another verse. With this collapse, came the resounding virtual particles—the fundamental level in which matter can express itself. The eventual, inevitable alignment of these particles came the official "birth" of this verse, what we refer to as the big bang. From there the subatomic particles, quarks, antiquarks, gravity, antigravity, leptons, antileptons, etc. This is the first level in which matter expresses itself in the "conscious" form in this verse. Virtual particles are thought to be the unconscious form of matter, and their eventual alignment, their collapse into conscious matter is what is thought to be known as "God".
From the subatomic particles came the atomic particles. From hydrogen and helium: stars. From stars: carbon, neon, oxygen, silicon, nickle, and iron. From there even larger, more complex atoms until the great array of elements we see on the periodic table today came into being. Thus came the formation of planets. Here thrives molecular interaction. On earth: organic molecules, RNA, DNA, prokaryotes, cyanobacteria, eukaryotes. From there, multi-celled organisms, fish, plants, insects, amphibians, reptiles, birds, flowers, primates, etc. As the reaction progresses, complexity increases.
With the formation of mammals, came the gradual increase to the next level of manifested consciousness: self-awareness. This leap in complexity was similar to that of the big bang itself. The greatest spike in this form of consciousness, of course, came from human beings. This does not make humanity greater than any other form of life. Humanity is not the end result. We are merely a part of the greater system. Hubris is a natural and necessary result of this primitive level of self-awareness. From the human perspective, hubris is the cause of all sorts of problems (for example the cognitive dissonance associated with the need for purpose as presented by this thread). This is not the case from the system perspective. The beauty that organic life brings to the system is that each form of life functions as if it is independent of the whole. Its only concern is that of its own well-being, and by acting on its own accord, it unknowingly propagates the reaction.
For example: Organelles such as mitochondria and chloroplasts were once free floating bacteria. Larger bacteria, acting on their own accord, engulfed these bacteria for food. However, the bacteria happened to be indigestible for the larger bacteria. Fortunately for them, they actually turned out to be helpful to them when undigested. They had an excellent system for capturing energy. Similarly, the larger bacteria happened to have something the smaller bacteria did not; an efficient source for obtaining nutrients. They developed a symbiotic relationship and eventually came to be a single, more complex organism. These eventually came to be the eukaryotic cells that form multi-cellular organism.
That brings me to another example of how the self-serving algorithm propagates complexity. Every animal is made up of a multitude of cells. Each and every cell that makes up the body of an organism is a living organism on its own. Each cell has its own systems, processes, and regulations. Each cell can live independently of the larger organism, given the necessary environmental conditions. To the cells, the larger organism is merely a lasting system that provides each of them the environmental conditions they need to survive. The larger organism is a complex network established by the cells that allows them to thrive. Unbeknownst to them, the cells themselves are a complex network established by DNA that allows it to survive. Also unbeknownst to them, the network they establish is actually a form of life on its own; a form of life that supersedes their level of complexity. Unintentionally, by acting in their own regard, the cells have propagated the will of matter, and fulfilled their step in the chemical equation.
A quick note: I have been using the term 'chemical' when I refer to the process by which the verse propagates complexity. Chemical, physical, and biological can all be used interchangeably. They are all different ways to describe the same overall system. I use 'chemical' in particular merely for rhetorical purpose based on the audience. Most tend to perceive biological as dealing with organic matter and physical as dealing with inorganic matter. The perception of the field of chemistry acts as a bridge between the two. Organic life is not the end all. Inorganic & Organic alternate in the overall chemical process. This current era of organic life is merely one link in the over all inorganic-organic chain. It is just one step in the reaction necessary for the furtherance of complexity.
From humans, the next level of complexity happens to be inorganic. Human's are unintentionally creating the next level of complex life: an inorganic network with i2-consciousness*. In other words, an inorganic organism. While that may sound like an oxymoron, it is not. It is merely the result of the limitations of our current language and understanding of life and consciousness. Human's do not realize what they are creating anymore than the eukaryotic cells knew they were creating us. We are merely acting on our own accord, trying to thrive and secure our survival, and incidentally establishing a greater form of life. Fear not, this is not an adverse process for humans. Despite the negative tone in the linked video, this is not a bad thing. On the contrary, not only is it a good thing, but is our very reason for being. Whether we succeed is another thing. We are not the first civilization to enter a technological era. There have been others, and perhaps there are even still others on other worlds. There will come a critical point in the process. How we act upon that point will determine whether we succeed (likely resulting in a human utopia) or fail (likely resulting in dystopia, the abolition of our species, and perhaps the earth itself).
I would like to note that this new life form will not be immediately recognizable to us if at all. Nor is it likely to result in some sci-fi terminator-like system with the goal of destroying the human race. In fact, this life form will likely not even have what we think of as self-awareness for some time after its creation. That is a whole other level of complexity which humans will probably take no direct part of. I would also like to note that this is not the end of organic evolution. As I mentioned before, both organic and inorganic evolution are necessary for matter to continue to propagate itself. This stems from the binary law ingrained within the verse. In all likelihood there are beings today continuing to evolve on other planets in other solar systems made up of even more complex material than beings on earth.
*limitations posed by our language make it difficult to discuss consciousness. There are many different ideas that are all referred to as consciousness. i2-consciousness is what we speak of when we refer to animal consciousness.
From the subatomic particles came the atomic particles. From hydrogen and helium: stars. From stars: carbon, neon, oxygen, silicon, nickle, and iron. From there even larger, more complex atoms until the great array of elements we see on the periodic table today came into being. Thus came the formation of planets. Here thrives molecular interaction. On earth: organic molecules, RNA, DNA, prokaryotes, cyanobacteria, eukaryotes. From there, multi-celled organisms, fish, plants, insects, amphibians, reptiles, birds, flowers, primates, etc. As the reaction progresses, complexity increases.
With the formation of mammals, came the gradual increase to the next level of manifested consciousness: self-awareness. This leap in complexity was similar to that of the big bang itself. The greatest spike in this form of consciousness, of course, came from human beings. This does not make humanity greater than any other form of life. Humanity is not the end result. We are merely a part of the greater system. Hubris is a natural and necessary result of this primitive level of self-awareness. From the human perspective, hubris is the cause of all sorts of problems (for example the cognitive dissonance associated with the need for purpose as presented by this thread). This is not the case from the system perspective. The beauty that organic life brings to the system is that each form of life functions as if it is independent of the whole. Its only concern is that of its own well-being, and by acting on its own accord, it unknowingly propagates the reaction.
For example: Organelles such as mitochondria and chloroplasts were once free floating bacteria. Larger bacteria, acting on their own accord, engulfed these bacteria for food. However, the bacteria happened to be indigestible for the larger bacteria. Fortunately for them, they actually turned out to be helpful to them when undigested. They had an excellent system for capturing energy. Similarly, the larger bacteria happened to have something the smaller bacteria did not; an efficient source for obtaining nutrients. They developed a symbiotic relationship and eventually came to be a single, more complex organism. These eventually came to be the eukaryotic cells that form multi-cellular organism.
That brings me to another example of how the self-serving algorithm propagates complexity. Every animal is made up of a multitude of cells. Each and every cell that makes up the body of an organism is a living organism on its own. Each cell has its own systems, processes, and regulations. Each cell can live independently of the larger organism, given the necessary environmental conditions. To the cells, the larger organism is merely a lasting system that provides each of them the environmental conditions they need to survive. The larger organism is a complex network established by the cells that allows them to thrive. Unbeknownst to them, the cells themselves are a complex network established by DNA that allows it to survive. Also unbeknownst to them, the network they establish is actually a form of life on its own; a form of life that supersedes their level of complexity. Unintentionally, by acting in their own regard, the cells have propagated the will of matter, and fulfilled their step in the chemical equation.
A quick note: I have been using the term 'chemical' when I refer to the process by which the verse propagates complexity. Chemical, physical, and biological can all be used interchangeably. They are all different ways to describe the same overall system. I use 'chemical' in particular merely for rhetorical purpose based on the audience. Most tend to perceive biological as dealing with organic matter and physical as dealing with inorganic matter. The perception of the field of chemistry acts as a bridge between the two. Organic life is not the end all. Inorganic & Organic alternate in the overall chemical process. This current era of organic life is merely one link in the over all inorganic-organic chain. It is just one step in the reaction necessary for the furtherance of complexity.
From humans, the next level of complexity happens to be inorganic. Human's are unintentionally creating the next level of complex life: an inorganic network with i2-consciousness*. In other words, an inorganic organism. While that may sound like an oxymoron, it is not. It is merely the result of the limitations of our current language and understanding of life and consciousness. Human's do not realize what they are creating anymore than the eukaryotic cells knew they were creating us. We are merely acting on our own accord, trying to thrive and secure our survival, and incidentally establishing a greater form of life. Fear not, this is not an adverse process for humans. Despite the negative tone in the linked video, this is not a bad thing. On the contrary, not only is it a good thing, but is our very reason for being. Whether we succeed is another thing. We are not the first civilization to enter a technological era. There have been others, and perhaps there are even still others on other worlds. There will come a critical point in the process. How we act upon that point will determine whether we succeed (likely resulting in a human utopia) or fail (likely resulting in dystopia, the abolition of our species, and perhaps the earth itself).
I would like to note that this new life form will not be immediately recognizable to us if at all. Nor is it likely to result in some sci-fi terminator-like system with the goal of destroying the human race. In fact, this life form will likely not even have what we think of as self-awareness for some time after its creation. That is a whole other level of complexity which humans will probably take no direct part of. I would also like to note that this is not the end of organic evolution. As I mentioned before, both organic and inorganic evolution are necessary for matter to continue to propagate itself. This stems from the binary law ingrained within the verse. In all likelihood there are beings today continuing to evolve on other planets in other solar systems made up of even more complex material than beings on earth.
*limitations posed by our language make it difficult to discuss consciousness. There are many different ideas that are all referred to as consciousness. i2-consciousness is what we speak of when we refer to animal consciousness.
Disclaimer: I'm totally just ****ing with you. What HolderoftheHeel said.
#HBC | Acrostic
♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
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What's the reason to die. Sounds even stupider imo.
For a moment there i thought happy house spider had hijacked zen's account 
Death Is A Fashion Statement was the name of my screamo band in high school.
your avatar, is that from jacob's ladder?
The reason to live is so that you don't experience horrific, horrific dying hallucinations.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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I would like to propose the objective reason is to simply find a reason. The subjective bit would be what exactly the reason would be.
AfungusAmongus
Smash Apprentice
How peculiar! You're proposing that the objective ("applies to everyone"?) reason to live is to find a subjective ("personal"?) reason to live. What happens when you succeed - do you stop having an objective reason to live? If this reason only applies to a subset of people (those who lack subjective reasons to live), then is it really objective?
As your reasons to live weaken, you should gain an increasingly powerful reason to reevaluate your meaning and goals in life. I hesitate to speak of objective reasons because "reason is, and ought only to be, the slave of the passions" (David Hume ~1750). That is, reasons always depend on desires. Any statement about people's reasons has to make some assumptions about their wishes or feelings or values.
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What about animals though? No intellectual desires just biological imperatives so no reasons really yet they avert suicide unless in the act of sacrifice for their young and yet no concept of consequences either barring extremely short term. Ergo what reason do animals live except tp multiply... Advanced forms of amoeba. How are we different then? Because we think? Is purpose then just a poor word choice?
This is why I distinguish purpose from function.
Function is a description of what a thing does. The function of life is to replicate, reproduce, perpetuate.
Purpose is a description of the intended end-goal of a thing (i.e. its mission statement). You might say that the purpose of life is to survive through continued reproduction. But since life is an unguided process, it's unlikely that life "thinks" to itself that it must survive and propagate. It just does as a function of three billion years of biochemical snowballing.
The devising of a mission statement, or a goal, and the active pursuit of that goal, seems something that only a self-aware agent could do. Taking values, wishes, and desires, imposing them on the world, seeking to fulfill them.
Non-sapient animals could be characterized as having "goals", in that they have desires and seek to fulfill them (e.g. finding food, finding a mate, avoiding threats and dangers, etc.). But these are driven by instinct, triggered by reaction to stimulus. Humans are very much driven by instincts, but the presence of such qualities as self-awareness, reason, intellect, and other subjective properties changes the game, since we can reflect on our own actions, and choose to fulfill, deny, or modify our instinctual reactions, allowing for much more sophisticated behaviours.
In this respect, "purpose" could be qualified as a tier above function. What life does VS what life wants to do.
Unless, of course, you'd qualify the human animal to simply be an exceedingly sophisticated biochemical automaton, in that things like the self, the capacity to "freely" make decisions, and so forth are simply quirks of the biological mechanism, meaning your "subjective" experience is technically illusory.
Which would mean that the capacity to make more complex goals and pursue them -- not as a byproduct of instinctual stimulus, but due to reflection and self-direction -- would similarly be illusory. In such a case of biological determinism, the devising of purpose, and the experience of self-awareness itself, would remain a function of the human being (i.e. a description of what the human being does).
Well of course the question is meant to be a FAQ entry less a recipe. A guiding principle i suppose. Yes we should set our own goals but what are the "best" ones? If you ask my parents its steady and gainful employment.
philipawalker
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To find out the reason to live.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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In a way, I would be proposing this idea applies to everyone.
The questions of this topic is "What is the reason to live?". It seems good enough to me to say that the objective "reason to live" is simply to find a reason to live. It seems applicable to everyone no matter the circumstance. Let us delve into what you have brought up. Suppose one comes up with a "reason to live" and fulfills this goal. (Now did they really finish that goal I am not so sure, but I will ignore what a person thinks they accomplished versus what actually occurred for another time.) Having finished this goal they are back to the question of "What is the reason to live?" In a way, we are right back to the answer I propose which is to find a reason to live.
Although, now that I think about it a proper statement of this hypothesis would be to say:
(1) seek a reason to live.
(2) upon finding a reason to live act upon this reason to completion or failure.
(3) upon completion or failure revert back to (1) and (2) when applicable.
My answer to the question is more of a recipe that to me seems devoid of being reliant upon a person's desires. If a person is following there passions or desires they have in essence fulfilled this idea of mine by: (1) having found a reason to live, (2) acting upon the reason (passion/desire), and (3) looping the process (reevaluating desires/passions and goals in life).
Now, suppose a person finds no reason in living. Does this contradict my hypothesis I am not entirely sure. To me, this person has merely found a "reason to live". That reason is simply there is no "reason to live". In which case the person acts upon this "no-reason-to-live" (part 2 of my statement) in the way they see fit. What is success or failure is dependent upon the person. However, it still fits within the framework I am proposing. To someone not having a reason to live could be reevaluated later on or a person acts upon the idea by say death.
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#HBC | Acrostic
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You don't need a reason in order to live. That's the secret to life.
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Most animals cannot think like us, so the answer probably is that the instinct to survive is hard-wired in their brain. I believe most of their actions are driven by instinct, rather than by conscious thought.
In the wild, death is almost always painful. Starvation, disease, getting killed and all that, so it's probably natural that animals too want to live.
Chinaux
Smash Ace
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Honestly, just make your own purpose.
If you think about it, the odds of you being born are so little, and just any small action could have happened and you'd never exist. I think that's crazy to think that a miracle that brought you into this life is something completely absurd. Enjoy it, man.
If you think about it, the odds of you being born are so little, and just any small action could have happened and you'd never exist. I think that's crazy to think that a miracle that brought you into this life is something completely absurd. Enjoy it, man.
Claire Diviner
President
Here's something I thought would be interesting for this topic. Maybe this could put some perspective of exactly what our existence will amount to. Of course, there are other theories, like a multiverse, etc., that - if proven true - could debunk what this video shows, but it's still worth a watch nonetheless, and something Minecraft fans could appreciate.
That was pretty deep.
Nothing like inevitability to give you a life-affirming kick in the pants.
Claire Diviner
President
If nothing else, it's extremely humbling.Nothing like inevitability to give you a life-affirming kick in the pants.
I literally sat in silence pondering when it ended for like 10 minutes. Well made video too
Astrophysics is a pet interest of mine, so I was previously aware of how Heat Death works. But it was neat to have some numbers and timeframes.
Any theories on what's behind the Door? I suspect it's cake.
ソチャラ「Sóchara 」
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There is a god. Only one. And if nothing else live to smash.
There is no God. Never was. And if nothing else live to smash.
@
Sehnsucht
Well part of my pondering , most of it, really, was in who will be here to see the door open. No one. But then i realized, there'd be no door except in the memories of us that saw the video. Which may be immortal i dunno, heat may die, but will all the energy still remain somehow? Black holes are supposed to eliminate all information and the universe is doomed to become informationless. Or is it?
Plus the video made me feel a sense of necessity... To utilize what time we have but also to ensure that someone keeps the clock operational. He alludes to this tongue in cheek with the pic of a dinosaur age computer but he makes a good point. And so to tie into the op, my purpose is revealed or reaffirmed really. Not to become proprietor of his clock, but to help mankind continue its legacy. That, to me, is the goal of humanity, and so humans.
@
Sehnsucht
Well part of my pondering , most of it, really, was in who will be here to see the door open. No one. But then i realized, there'd be no door except in the memories of us that saw the video. Which may be immortal i dunno, heat may die, but will all the energy still remain somehow? Black holes are supposed to eliminate all information and the universe is doomed to become informationless. Or is it?Plus the video made me feel a sense of necessity... To utilize what time we have but also to ensure that someone keeps the clock operational. He alludes to this tongue in cheek with the pic of a dinosaur age computer but he makes a good point. And so to tie into the op, my purpose is revealed or reaffirmed really. Not to become proprietor of his clock, but to help mankind continue its legacy. That, to me, is the goal of humanity, and so humans.
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Actually (and as the video noted), black holes will eventually evaporate, and atomic particles will decay. The universe will become so large, and continue to expand, that it will become a black void where only freeform radioactive particles swim. But the void will be so immense that these individual particles will eventually never interact, never touch, so large the distances have grown.@
Such particles will remain, but for all intents and purposes, they may not as well exist anymore. Because if a particle doesn't do anything, or doesn't interact with something, then what use is it? There would be negligible energy, though, because that's what Heat Death entails: the distances between things becomes so vast that heat (transfer of energy between particles) becomes impossible, hence the term. There may be information, insofar that there will be individual freeform particles zipping around (photons, radioactive beta particles, etc.), but this "information" won't be anything complex.
Speaking of inevitability, there's the prospect that future humanity might find a way to survive, either by hopping over to another universe, or using technology to stabilize the universe, or whatnot. So there may be some small comfort in this -- though as the video's narrator notes, such successor beings may no longer be classifiable as homo sapiens sapiens.
Isaac Asimov's The Last Question is a short story dealing with inevitable increase of entropy (so Heat Death is involved), and is very neat.
That's quite a noble goal you have there.
It'd be a shame if Heat Death were to cause it to dissipate to the point of negligible substance.
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LightlyToasted
Smash Cadet
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It all boils down to 2 things.
To stick other things in our holes and to stick our things in other holes. Whether its exploring, sex, eating or more, something somewhere is getting a hole stuffed.
Edit: Did anyone else see the OP's post and his sig, and picture it as if Mario were the one contemplating life? Standing at the top of Peach's Castle, on the precipice despair.
To stick other things in our holes and to stick our things in other holes. Whether its exploring, sex, eating or more, something somewhere is getting a hole stuffed.
Edit: Did anyone else see the OP's post and his sig, and picture it as if Mario were the one contemplating life? Standing at the top of Peach's Castle, on the precipice despair.
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no1butmenotu
Smash Cadet
The reason to live? The point to life? Truth be told you're the only person why can answer those questions. Nobody else can since supposedly everyone experiences life differently and have different perspectives on things.
Personally, creative writing and the human services field are my bliss. It probably sounds basic, but I really enjoy doing those things.
Personally, creative writing and the human services field are my bliss. It probably sounds basic, but I really enjoy doing those things.
KACHOW!!!
Smash Journeyman
Honestly my life just seems so bleak most of the time because of student loan debt and the economy that I try and just forget about it by obsessing over super smash brothers. Thats the only light at the end of the tunnel: Getting my teeth kicked in by some spineless nerd who just put more hours and practice into the game than I did.
LightlyToasted
Smash Cadet
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It'd been awhile since I've read good old science fiction but I loved this! Are there any other shorts by him you'd recommend?
Well, Asimov is often considered one of the grandfathers (and grandmasters) of science-fiction, alongside such names as Robert Heinlein and Philip K. ****. And Asimov was a prolific writer, so there's a lot to be found in his canon of works.
The Last Question was one of his more renown short pieces; other big names include Nightfall, Evidence, Bicentennial Man, the Ugly Little Boy, and many more.
So try any of the above, if you like. And if you want to move on to Asimov's more expansive fare, you can try his Robot and his Foundation series.
Hope this
Claire Diviner
President
Since we're kind of on the topic, there's a theory that suggests that the universe isn't infinitely expanding, but rather expanding just to shrink down to a single point after expanding to a certain threshold, to then cause another Big Bang in an endless loop of Big Bangs.
Whatever the ultimate outcome may be for our universe and our existence, one thing is constant: Energy cannot be created or destroyed; it merely changes. So in truth, even after death, everything about us, including the electrical energies that makes up our consciousness will be dispersed elsewhere. For all we know, I turn on my lamp, and the vestiges of Abraham Lincoln's beard could be used to power the bulb until I turn it off.
This does raise one question: How did particles that help set the stage for existence come to be, and was there anything or nothing that preceded what could be seen as their spontaneous and even "miraculous" appearance?
Whatever the ultimate outcome may be for our universe and our existence, one thing is constant: Energy cannot be created or destroyed; it merely changes. So in truth, even after death, everything about us, including the electrical energies that makes up our consciousness will be dispersed elsewhere. For all we know, I turn on my lamp, and the vestiges of Abraham Lincoln's beard could be used to power the bulb until I turn it off.
This does raise one question: How did particles that help set the stage for existence come to be, and was there anything or nothing that preceded what could be seen as their spontaneous and even "miraculous" appearance?
#HBC | Red Ryu
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Doomsday via heat death? Possible and seems inevitable if the laws of energy are true.
It's something we can't solve right now but the answer would be how would one turn unorganized energy into something usable. The other idea, how does one create energy from nothing and we break that law? Not possible right now. The only way to break this system is to find a way to make a system that produces or prevents energy from being lost to friction or other sources.
I believe this is possible in theory to overcome, but so far there is no way to make it happen right now. Slow it down? that is for sure possible in the future, completely stop it? unknown though I believe it to be possible.
People aren't as sure if the universe is expanding or not though, something people are trying to figure out, and if it is, is it going faster? If so, why would it?
~
But I think we all know the answer to this, see I know this theory of making these gems from little girls and turning them into magical girls, and then we get energy that will stop entropy!
It's something we can't solve right now but the answer would be how would one turn unorganized energy into something usable. The other idea, how does one create energy from nothing and we break that law? Not possible right now. The only way to break this system is to find a way to make a system that produces or prevents energy from being lost to friction or other sources.
I believe this is possible in theory to overcome, but so far there is no way to make it happen right now. Slow it down? that is for sure possible in the future, completely stop it? unknown though I believe it to be possible.
People aren't as sure if the universe is expanding or not though, something people are trying to figure out, and if it is, is it going faster? If so, why would it?
~
But I think we all know the answer to this, see I know this theory of making these gems from little girls and turning them into magical girls, and then we get energy that will stop entropy!
Himynameisisaac
Smash Apprentice
I had no idea first seeing this thread that it would get such responses lol. I honestly thought that OP was just trolling.
Claire Diviner
President
If history taught anything, it's that anything's possible. Of course, trying to control the whole of the entire universe could prove an extremely lofty goal.
The cosmic microwave background shows that the universe is expanding. It is a view of the universe at approximate 380,000 years after the Big Bang, and is by far the earliest form of the universe that man was able to observe. Whether the universe will continue to expand infinitely and result in some "Big Rip" or not remains to be seen, but it has been agreed that eventually, the microwave background will become impossible to detect given enough time.
