What would you change about Palutena?

[Maraphy]

If you could change her, would you / what would you change? It can be as reasonable or unreasonable as you want.

For me, I'd try to apply some tiny, reasonable buffs that could make her less punishable. They'd be modifications to her current set, that way it'd be easier than making entirely new animations.

• F-Tilt would be the same move but function differently: When she starts the attack, the staff spins in mid-air, but she is free to act right after the attack starts. So, the staff would spin and she could shield while it's spinning there, or she could move, jump, whatever. When the move ends, the staff would go back to her. (teleports? floats quickly?) The only limitation is that she can't use another move involving her staff until it returns to her; thus she would have to wait before using F-tilt again, U-tilt, D-tilt, N-air, or Auto-Reticle (and U-Smash?? she raises her staff). It would therefor be possible to combo f-tilt into dash attack or F-air/B-air, or U-smash if that's allowed. She could use it as a defensive spacing maneuver to retreat or to go in for a grab if they shield it. F-tilt goes from being arguably her worst move to possibly her most useful ground move, without even changing the attack itself.
• Down Smash: Gets a stronger pushback on the windbox, making it safer to use. Thus it would have a purpose for using it over F-smash, and your opponent shouldn't be able to punish you for whiffing it unless they are A.) in the air when you use it, or B.) Sonic
• D-air: have the hitbox active on 2-3 frames, instead of just 1 because wtf why is it just 1

Also this will never happen but I would animate Palutena's hair better : [

 

[Wintropy]

Increase the speed of her tilts, decrease endlag; stronger windbox on f-smash / d-smash; more frames on d-air; option to instantly cancel single jab by holding the attack, in the same way that flurries can become jabs by holding the attack.

Otherwise I think she's fine. :3

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

I would personally make her the exception to the rule that you can't use custom moves online, just the specials though, none of the equipment.
I would also speed up some of her attacks.

 

[Admiral Pit]

-Make Jab come out faster.
-Make tilts less laggy (D-tilt is fine)
-Allow D-tilt to reach a bit lower than usual to give her an option to poke opponents hanging on the ledge while she's still on the stage.
-More frames on D-air
-Make Reflect Barrier less laggy
-Make Counter less laggy and have less ending lag.
-Make Heavenly Light be able to neutralize weak projectiles and have less lag overall.
-Give F-smash and D-smash stronger windboxes, and give D-smash slightly longer lasting hitboxes.

Stuff like that I suppose.

 

[scalpel]

in this thread: take away all of the negatives that keep Palutena balanced, keep all the good stuff, plus add more good stuff.

 

[xnine]

Stronger windbox on down smash sounds really good actually.

 

[Merfect]

- Give IASA frames to F-tilt. Maybe U-tilt too, but it's already a good anti air.
- Make her other throws more useful. When the opponent learns to DI D-throw, it becomes harder to get a kill off of a grab.
- Give D-Smash a purpose over F-Smash. Like, make it safer or something.
- Make D-throw > Dair a true combo.
- Make Autoreticle more useful.

Though, if these kind of changes were applied and if custom moves were allowed, then Palutena would be above God tier.....
Goddess Tier.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Basically, have less startup and cooldown on a lot of her moves, such as her tilts and smashes, and less landing lag on her aerials other than her fair which already has low landing lag.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Dsmash should have the same wind effect as Bowser's Vortex Bomb. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

[Funkermonster]

- Let Autoretical's crosshair follow the opponent's movement after lock-on, and the beams still shoot after the oppnent rather than whiff completely.

- Less lag and more damage on Ftilt and Utilt

- More active frames and less startup/endlag on counter.

- Slightly decrease lag on Fsmash and Dsmash. Usmash is fine.

- Replace Heavenly Light with something better, its just awful. I dunno which is worse: This, 's Straight Lunge, 's Up Tilt, or 's PK Flash. Or maybe decrease the lag on it and let the light remain active as a character-spawned hazard so she can still move elsewhere while its out

 

[xnine]

You knonw what would be good? If autoretical still shot if people spotdodged/rolled. I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

[JayWon]

So D-tilt DOESN'T poke people grabbing the ledge right?

-Frame 5 (or lower) Jab would be AMAZING...
-Would be cool if longer charged F-Smash/D-Smash increases windboxes too.
-or maybe longer charged U-Smash increases the height even higher!
-Significantly less end lag on Pivot Grabs / Pivot Tilts, would encourage more unique playstyle.
-Frame 3 Warp
- I can deal with the end lag... but at least please give F-tilt MUCH more priority and DESTROY Shields.
-Wider hitbox for U-tilt so it can punish rolls

 

[Bert HM]

I wish warp had a longer range and/or hitboxes like Zelda's/Shiek's teleports, currently it just feels like a downgraded version of theirs.
I also wanna say her F-air should have a sweetspot like Zelda/C-Falcon, but she already has a lot of pretty good kill moves so it might be unbalanced.

-You should definitely be able to decide the distance explosive flame lands by pushing forward or back after inputting it; really dumb that's not already there, especially considering how slow it is to come out; the enemy will have moved by then.
-Auto-reticule should fire sooner, have better tracking, or be an instant beam instead.
-Heavenly light should have a use outside of trophy rush, maybe it should heal or something? There's various things that could be done to make it better…
-Counter should be the same as Lucina/Marth... instead of a slower, weaker and shorter ranged version of it (-.-)
-Angelic Missile should have much faster startup so it's not the most obvious and punishable thing like it is now, perhaps at the cost of it's damage.

I also generally wish Palutena just had overall more power and weight, she's supposed to be a goddess but she just often just feels like a slow and weak character (or like she's holding back so much of her power… which is very unsatisfying to play with)

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

If you could change her, would you / what would you change? It can be as reasonable or unreasonable as you want.

For me, I'd try to apply some tiny, reasonable buffs that could make her less punishable. They'd be modifications to her current set, that way it'd be easier than making entirely new animations.

• F-Tilt would be the same move but function differently: When she starts the attack, the staff spins in mid-air, but she is free to act right after the attack starts. So, the staff would spin and she could shield while it's spinning there, or she could move, jump, whatever. When the move ends, the staff would go back to her. (teleports? floats quickly?) The only limitation is that she can't use another move involving her staff until it returns to her; thus she would have to wait before using F-tilt again, U-tilt, D-tilt, N-air, or Auto-Reticle (and U-Smash?? she raises her staff). It would therefor be possible to combo f-tilt into dash attack or F-air/B-air, or U-smash if that's allowed. She could use it as a defensive spacing maneuver to retreat or to go in for a grab if they shield it. F-tilt goes from being arguably her worst move to possibly her most useful ground move, without even changing the attack itself.
• Down Smash: Gets a stronger pushback on the windbox, making it safer to use. Thus it would have a purpose for using it over F-smash, and your opponent shouldn't be able to punish you for whiffing it unless they are A.) in the air when you use it, or B.) Sonic
• D-air: have the hitbox active on 2-3 frames, instead of just 1 because wtf why is it just 1

Also this will never happen but I would animate Palutena's hair better : [

I really like the idea of that ftilt. I think they knew what would be cool but either didn't push it enough, or felt they would be making a normal A move *too* special/weird (being able to act before the move finishes). But they should at least reduce the lag or make it more usable. It has very few uses. Maybe only have the last hit do the knockback, so that if you run into it you get sucked/and get dealt damage before being knocked away, or something.

I also think reducing endlag for her smashes and adding another 1-2 frames for dair are reasonable. I don't think she's so bad she needs fixes (she might end up in high tier, who knows), but if it proves to be the case then those would be the areas they should change. Her smashes are strong yes and have windbox properties, but the windboxes aren't that useful/effective and there are characters with just as strong smashes but with a lot less end lag. Even a few less frames of lag could help a lot.

I think making the windboxes a much bigger part of her character would be awesome though. Right now it's just a little cute touch; it could be pushed more to have that wall-y/mid-zoney/push kind of character.

 

[Enrel]

I wouldn't change that much from her outside of just better recovery on a few moves like the tilts. She's really fun to play overall.

 

[Wintropy]

I wouldn't change that much from her outside of just better recovery on a few moves like the tilts. She's really fun to play overall.

I'm curious, what exactly would you change about it?

I quite like but, but that's just me. I'd love to know what other people think. Care to share your feedback?

 

[Enrel]

I'm curious, what exactly would you change about it?

I quite like but, but that's just me. I'd love to know what other people think. Care to share your feedback?

Well I'm still very much a novice Palutena player. I'm legit playing her out of sure stubbornness. I liked her so much in KI:U and I really just want her to be really good.

I know I should rely on her jab cancels more than anything but like forward tilt has so much recovery time and I'd just like a few frames shaved off of it so if my opponent shields it I'd like a chance to dodge out of the way. So far the only tilt she has that doesn't have horrible ending lag is the down tilt. I'd actually like it if I could use Side B and act from it faster as well. Her aerials seem pretty fine. Fair and Bair are very much safe and that's great. Dair can sometimes be safe but not really, but it's not as bad as Nair or Uair if you try to do some Short hops.

I kind of wish teleport wasn't just Zelda's old teleport with no hitbox but it's not bad either. It's just there to get out after all. Auto retical is only so good if the enemy doesn't approach which is fine but it feels a bit lacking too. I'm not sure what I'd change in that instance without making her completely broken and too safe.

 

[Wintropy]

Well I'm still very much a novice Palutena player. I'm legit playing her out of sure stubbornness. I liked her so much in KI:U and I really just want her to be really good.

I know I should rely on her jab cancels more than anything but like forward tilt has so much recovery time and I'd just like a few frames shaved off of it so if my opponent shields it I'd like a chance to dodge out of the way. So far the only tilt she has that doesn't have horrible ending lag is the down tilt. I'd actually like it if I could use Side B and act from it faster as well. Her aerials seem pretty fine. Fair and Bair are very much safe and that's great. Dair can sometimes be safe but not really, but it's not as bad as Nair or Uair if you try to do some Short hops.

I kind of wish teleport wasn't just Zelda's old teleport with no hitbox but it's not bad either. It's just there to get out after all. Auto retical is only so good if the enemy doesn't approach which is fine but it feels a bit lacking too. I'm not sure what I'd change in that instance without making her completely broken and too safe.

We should play sometime. I'll show you what I know. :3

 

[Enrel]

We should play sometime. I'll show you what I know. :3

Sure you see my NNID I'll add yours too. Donno if you got skype but Kyurian is mine.

 

[Lavani]

Some minor things I'd like to see:

Dtilt: Starts on: 14f→10f
Utilt: FAF 68f→58f
Ftilt: Starts on: 17f→15f, FAF 69f→55f

Currently Palutena's tilts have so much startup and commit time for low reward that there's rarely if ever reason to use them. These tweaks still leave them laggier than other characters' tilts, but aim to make them safer to use and a bit quicker to start up. The end lag on utilt/ftilt is tweaked to be comparable to Meta Knight's fsmash so that they aren't as punishable, but the commit time is still more than lengthy enough for an opponent able to move past the hitboxes to punish. This might still be too minor to justify their use, but baby steps.

Fsmash: -7 frames end lag
Dsmash: -10 frames end lag

Still rather laggy, but much more proportional to their reward.

Dash Attack, Dash Grab: Faster movement speed

It's really janky and unnecessary for Palutena to slow to a crawl during her dash attack and dash grab; maybe there's some justification for it on dash attack considering the invincibility, but it's a needless restraint on her dash grab.

 

[Braydon]

I really don't feel she's that underpowered, she has some great tools, her dash is probably the best in the game, those invuln frames are a life saver, her airs are all great, she's the only character with both the ability to counter, and reflect.

There are 2 things I feel she could use though:
-Significantly less end lag on tilts, her tilts are just bad.
-Her counter could deal with a slight power or range boost.

 

[scalpel]

Severely reduce the damage and knockback of Palutena's down-smash, in exchange for an unpunishable instantaneous effect and with little to no lag or after-cast delay - similar in theme to her quick Fair and jab.

 

[Dinoman96]

Make some of her moves generally less laggy, that's for one.

I feel like something should ought to be done with her specials. Her defining 'thing' is that she's the only regular character in the game (IE not counting Mii Fighters) to have fully unique custom specials, annnnnd this special feature of her is blocked off during online play with randoms and All-Star Mode/the Stadium games. It doesn't seem very well thought out.

I'd say they should either let a way for Palutena to use her customs in these modes, or scrap the whole unique custom moves gimmick and just give her a regular default set of specials more related to her character. I like that she represents the powers Pit uses in KIU, so personally I'd go with the former.

 

[_Darkpit_]

Decrease endlag and a counter that always hit the opponent. Especially the counter is in my opinion to bad.

If I use counter and Palutena strikes back the opponent gets away from this to often. Its difficult enough to use it but if your opponent hits you during your down special you could fail yet. I experienced that Palutenas counter striked away from the opponent ( the opponent was on the right and Palutena attacked on her left ).^And if you're lucky you'll be punished because of the long lag of Palutenas counter... although the opponent hit you during your counter. ^^

This is my biggest problem on Palutena. ^^

 

[soru]

Faster tilts and much less recovery on dsmash because it's nearly useless. Oh, and maybe a few more active frames on dair because it's so hard to land.

 

[JSG]

Of course, speedier tilts would be nice, as well as less lag on her forward and down smashes. I'd also wish her autoreticle worked better; I actually really like that move over her other ones, but it's always hard to use against characters that can dodge it easily.

I also would like her lightweight or celestial fireworks to be her default down special, rather than her counter. That, or improve the counter in every way possible.

 

[TyGotKrazyy50]

Not sure mostly make Palutenas Ftilt a little faster.. If I miss I get punished !

 

[Funkermonster]

There is one thing I'd change about her: Her palette swaps. Seriously, I can't help but find most of her alts kinda boring and don't really mix well with her long green hair, and I personally only use her green palette. If they at least changed her hair color in all the other colors, they'd be ok.

Does that count?

 

[Masque]

There is one thing I'd change about her: Her palette swaps. Seriously, I can't help but find most of her alts kinda boring and don't really mix well with her long green hair, and I personally only use her green palette. If they at least changed her hair color in all the other colors.

Does that count?

Need blonde hair for her Viridi alt!

 

[Jiggly]

I would make her look like hades, give her a hades moveset, and put her name as hades.

 

[Nerdicon]

• Auto-Reticle should fire an instant beam as opposed to three scattered shots to make it more useful against an opponent with more than half a brain. (And I would always use auto-reticle with my Laser Staff, I miss that staff...)
• Reflect Barrier should hang in the air for longer and do a minute amount of damage when someone runs into it. It should have more lag to compensate
• I don't know why, but Palutena's warp is a little wonky for me, if it did a better job of auto-snapping to the ledge I'd like it more.Of course I could just be bad at the game...
• Heavenly Light sucks. Make it like the original game where you could put it on and then move around
• Her tilts are super laggy, especially f-tilt. Just a little less start-up on her tilts would be nice
• Her Dair needs more range, or needs to last longer. Either or

Other than that I think she's fine. I see why people don't like Down Smash but I've gotten quite a bit of mileage out of it.

 

[Zediwonder]

I like the idea of being able to move while you ftilt, sounds kind of like a really low core Litchi Feiling from Blazblue and you could work some good combo's off it both on hit or knocking someone into it UNFORTUNATELY that does sound a bit over powered but hey that's the point of the thread.

I'd like to see a revision to auto reticle, they come out slow and only 3 shots. It should be really fast and you can hold it out as long as you like probably only to target the one area but does no knockback like foxes laser or let's you charge it up for a single large shot that works like sun salutation or aura sphere but you can't hold the charge.

 

[JayWon]

There is one thing I'd change about her: Her palette swaps. Seriously, I can't help but find most of her alts kinda boring and don't really mix well with her long green hair, and I personally only use her green palette. If they at least changed her hair color in all the other colors.

Does that count?

I hate how unnaturally long her hair is. Wish there were different alts for hairstyle

 

[Pretty Princess]

Even though I know this isn't true to the game, I really wish Autoreticle still fired shots even when the opponent is invincible. With the way the move operates, I would just give it a set trajectory that the volley fires in (purely horizontal or a 45 degree angle), unless of course it locks onto an opponent. That way, the move becomes a better projectile and a solid pressure tool.

I'd also make Heavenly Light work just like it does in Uprising, so that it can even hope to compete with the other two Neutral B's. Being able to move around with chip damage covering her on all sides would be pretty cool, especially with Super Speed shenanigans.

That, and less lag on her F-Tilt & Down Smash would be nice. All her other moves are fine, imo. (Just use Lightweight instead of Counter!)

 

[We Are GX]

1. Make her smashes have lingering hitboxes so that they are actually useful.
2. Make her Reticle actually have a homing aspect to it so that it isnt easily dodgeable.
3. make her tilts faster with less end lag.
4. Nair have less end lag.

Thats basically it.

 

[Neldy09]

Jab: Leave as is.
Dash: Leave as is, please!
Tilts: Almost all of them could stand to have reduced delay before or after the attack. It's punishable and its the downside to her, but the multiple hit-boxes aren't good enough to make up for it when facing even moderately fast characters. This is not among my main concerns -- could handle if left as is.

F-Air: Leave as is (It's amazing).
N-Air: Leave as is.
D-Air: It is kind of hard to hit with due to small hit box and timing difficulty. but I can live with this -- other changes are more needed.
U-Air: Leave as is.
B-Air: It's awesome, leave as is!

F-Smash: Leave as is.
D-Smash: Maybe increase the size of the hit box slightly, but mostly okay.
U-Smash: If not increase the duration of the hit box, or adding a little bit of a disrupt effect the the bottom of it, then please,
PLEASE, make the animation more accurate to the hit box so I can actually learn it. I'm tired of people coming at me through the beam and hitting me when it looks like they should take a hit.

Autoreticle: I really wish that this wasn't completely negated by the dodge-roll. This and the semi-regularly missed range of the attack means I'm spending a great deal of frames just holding out my staff and shouting. If I could have my way, I would like it if it would send out just one projectile directly in front of her to at least give me a little bit of a compensation for wasted frames (doesn't necessarily need to have the full range of the locked on attack) ..
Reflect: Generally not a super amazing special. It has its moments, and I don't hate it, but I'm not blown away by it.
Counter: I would gladly take a few more frames of effectiveness even at the loss of some of it's reflected damage. It's pretty much out-shined by all other counters in the game.
Warp: Leave as is, maybe a hit-box... depending on how many of my other wanted changes were accepted.
Sorry about paragraph of rant. All in all, I would mostly love to see changes to Autoreticle and U-smash as it doesn't seem like they function as they should / were intended to(?). Thank you.

 

[Nexin]

Nothing. She is already perfect.

 

[Puppyfaic]

Add a weaker hitbox to her upsmash for as long as the laser is visible.
Change default down B to Lightweight.
Increase the duration of Reflect.
Less landing lag on Nair.

I think that's about it.

 

[TastyCarcass]

I think her moves have some pretty bad frame data.
If her counter came out a frame or two earlier it would be much more useful.
A lot of characters get 1 frame jabs and I wish Pal did.
I think her ftilt is an awful move and should be completely replaced

 

[ShadowLBlue]

Less lag on reflect and make it spin people around like Mario's cape. Also let Explosive Flame be aimable in some manner, even if it's only a slight range.

Those 2 changes plus one of the following (I'd prefer both but I don't want to be greedy):
A) I'd like her hitboxes to extend for her entire wings on her F-smash and D-Smash, and for her Up Smash's beam to do damage (one time only) while it's on screen. It bothers me that characters can dodge it at the beginning and still actually touch the beam but not receive any damage.

B) That or make her tilt's much quicker or increase the damage of all of them be like 3 % points.

I don't think asking for one of those would make her unbalanced.