What veteran would you change move set wise?

[Ulevo]

ZSS, Sonic, and Wolf have poorly designed movesets, both from a practical and a aesthetic standpoint.

 

[Zaffy]

ZSS, Sonic, and Wolf have poorly designed movesets, both from a practical and a aesthetic standpoint.

Why ZSS? She had a very original moveset in my opinion.

My view;
Wolf/Falco to each have slightly more original moveset in the form of specials/final smash
DK to have a roll
Ganon for obvious reasons, a taunt to take out a sword, and then keep his regular moveset
Jiggly to have safer moves
Weegee to have poltergust
Metaknight to be less silly
Toon link to be much more original

 

[Lemonwater]

I don't like drastically changing moves or replacing moves, but I'll make an exception to Toon Link since Young Link is the original Link clone anyway.


Lol. Bowser used that move in Super Mario Bros 3, which came out before Yoshi even existed.


Pretty much this, except the way I imagined it would be that you could either wait and let him release the powerful punch like normal, or press B early and have him shoot the energy as a weaker electricity-based dark magic projectile. (Dead Man's Volley)

I certainly welcome new moves, but only if they are added alongside the old ones (new diagonal B attacks, for example) and not replace any old moves.

----

I'm referring to the move's appearance in the SSB series. Although I did not know that.

 

[BaPr]

As a Pit mainer, I can say that F.L.U.D.D. is very useful. It pushes people off stage and freezes them mid attack. The person I would like to change is Metaknight. Not to make him better, but to nerf him. In the Kirby games, he was a fast character, so I think slower moves wouldn't fit his style. Giving him a slower, but fast moveset seems like the best choice, and lower his move's priority.

 

[Z1GMA]

All I really hope for is that Zelda is competitively viable. I sex her in Melee and Brawl, but she is pretty bad. Make her heavier and stronger, with more priority.

IMO, her weight is fine, but she needs a better Air Game and a good Ftilt.
Possibly a more reliable Recovery as well.

 

[Renji64]

Just change the fludd i'm gonna that moveset i just want melee mario moveset or him and doc combined like P:M.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well now that lucario got saved by the new mega evolution and that picture of mega mewtwo vs mega lucario on the magazine change lucarios final smash to the mega form

 

[Hong]

Why ZSS? She had a very original moveset in my opinion.

A lot of her moves felt bogus to me. Things like her forward B shouldn't be a special move... Special moves should be special. Consequentially, her forward smash and also up smash were pretty but didn't really add much to the character, and her Up B wouldn't have been as lame if not for the redundancy in tether recoveries (the pull-down effect was cool, though). That said, I still enjoyed ZSS a bit. As someone who played a lot of Bowser in Melee, I am used to having a lot of inputs I will scarcely use.

That seemed to be a theme in Brawl, though. Diddy, Pit, Meta Knight, R.O.B. (who was lame in general). and Lucario also have forward specials that lacked substance, in my opinion.

 

[[Corn]]

Anyone who doesnt say Ganondorf should leave...

Now.

 

[Blue Warrior]

Why do people want to get rid of FLUDD so much? It's a significant part of Mario's history. In other games in the main series he's had power-ups that he can gain and lose at a moment's notice, but Super Mario Sunshine is the first game in the main series where he has been tied down to a certain "power-up." In Sunshine, FLUDD is almost ALWAYS with Mario. It wouldn't make sense not to at least let him have it for ONE measly move in Smash 4 when it can do so much more outside of Smash. I know it wasn't very useful in Brawl, but Sakurai could make the move useful in this game if he wanted to.

To answer your question OP: Gannondorf.

The reason why we want it removed is because it sucks. It removed a great addition to Mario's recovery in favor of a situational knockback move that is nearly impossible to use.

Theming is fine, but not at the expense of functionality. If FLUDD was useful, then it could be a different story.

 

[Hong]

Anyone who doesnt say Ganondorf should leave...

Now.

I figured it goes without saying. Every gamer knows who Ganondorf is, and was equally perplexed just to see him punching and kicking stuff.

 

[BaPr]

Anyone who doesnt say Ganondorf should leave...

Now.

Ganondorf is too obvious. There are many people who we would like to change with their moveset. People like Mario and his FLUDD (I love it though), or Metaknight's moves. I don't hae a problem with his moves. I just want him to be faster and lighter with more knockback, but that isn't exactly changing his moveset.

 

[extremechiton]

kirby: change dash attack to surf from kirbys return to dreamland. if done near the edge, you can fall off while still dash attacking like piplup does. but only a limited distance.
change the second swing of aerial hammer to be able to change direction with added effect:
I.E. similar to marths dancing blade, when you press down, the hammer swings down and spikes, when you press up, hammer swings up and launches at a steeper angle upwards. press back, kirby turns around and hits backwards, press forward and hammer is thrown. do nothing and its a normal aerial hammer.
change uptilt to geyeser, or mega needle, or leaf upper cut or stone uppercut.
change down tilt to the slide tackle.
add an air box in front or kirby when you fast fall, but only when you fast fall.
add a smash down b move in the air that makes stone more powerful, but longer start up lag.
can grab the ledge backwards during up special like ike


zss: make a separate character slot. let a taunt be able to switch between zss and samus and vise versa. final smash does not gain or lose armor. make grab way better. make f smash a viable kill move

zelda. make side b less spammy, i.e. no larger hitbox for farther fire ball. also does not cause helplessness when used in air. make teleport easier to use. have separate spot for sheik.

luigi: add poltergust as down special. can be used as recovery, like the cyclone move, if done right. uses ghosts as final smash.

mario: make fludd a recovery option. like hovering for a short while. use different costumes from the different games as color schemes. i.e. dr mario for white, mario strikers as red. ramp up his final smash to be more useful and potentially kill alot easier.

ganondorf: completely new moveset.

ness: new up special. pk flash does not cause helplessness in air, but can only be used once (in air)

lucas: new final smash. change pk freeze to something else

lucario: have the aerial side special spike like in project m.

meta knight: slow him down. replace tornado with sword beam or something else

charizard: gets own character slot. change up throw to that from project m. new down special. maybe the rock from brawl, and forward special is the flame sneeze from project m.

ivysaur: gets own character slot: charges solar beam with neutral special like in project m. does not recover health. use down special from project m.

squirtle: gets own character slot. change down special. shell has some armor. add more knockback to some attacks. improve water gun.

samus: make heavier. super missile crosses entire screen. bombs explode earlier.
EDIT: use the flame thrower as an uair instead of fair, new fair, new up smash.

donkey kong: giant punch does not cause helplessness when done in air. aerial down special, donkey kong rushes downward, when he hits the ground, causes a giant ground pound if done too low, it doesnt do a giant ground pound but a smaller one. if hits opponent in air, they spike. (continues falling until auto cancels like zss dair.) change final smash

dedede: replace inhale with something else.

olimar: add rock pikmin. extremely rare, can break shields. smash attacks are even shorter than purple pikmin. when thrown with side special, it acts like bonsly in brawl.

jigglypuff: replace sing as a taunt. still has same effect. add a recovery. add fair effects to attacks. change final smash.

yoshi: replace egg roll with egg toss. add wings for up specail recovery: (useful for only 3 flaps)

falco: uses arwing as final smash. increase up special distance, change d smash, up smash, and up air.

wolf: change final smash to have his team use thier arwings to shoot people on the stage like latios and latias, but with lasers. change up smash to that from project m

 

[nat pagle]

Ganondorf: I'd like to see the double swords like in Wind Waker. That would give him a great new moveset, with maybe a little magic on the side.

Mario: Change FLUDD, don't remove him. Maybe make use of the special nozzles?

Luigi: More wacky stuff and poltergust.

Wolf: More aggression and power.

 

[JosukeM]

Thanks to the guys for such a nice welcome, I promise I'll do my best to not get banned :D

OK, now, on topic, I'll focus first on the already confirmed veterans:
Mario: Just making the F.L.U.D.D. a damaging move would be OK
Luigi: His Final Smash was ... too weird and ... kinda useless because, after he do his dance, the enemy already recovered him/herself, something with the Poltergust would be nice like ... I don´t know, sucking the enemies, then throwing them away a la Kirby's Final Smash
Donkey Kong: I wasn't a big fan of his Final Smash either, I was expecting something mighty or powerful, but his bongoes were kinda easy to avoid and it was too long, something with barrels, his Banana Juice from Donkey Kong Country Returns or even Rambi (or any other of his Animal Buddies) would be great

I personally think that the original 12 will return, and that's why I'll dare to name the following:
Jigglypuff: Now that it will be a Normal/Fairy type Pokémon, its Pound attack could be a brand new Fairy-type attack like ... Fairy Wind or something, so it could use it as a recovery move, the Sing attack needs to have a slighty longer effect and a slighty bigger range, and I was thinking that, it's Final Smash could be Hyper Voice instead of Puff Up because ... well, that actually IS a Pokémon attack and could have a bigger range of coverage

I personally ALSO think that the ones that survived Melee's cut will be back this time too so ... here I go:
Peach: Changing her Smash Final for something like her mood changes in Super Princess Peach just for the LULZ XD
Falco: Landmaster? no, no, no ... Arwing? yes, yes, yes
Ganondorf: He has a sword in his artworks ... he should use it, just Luigify him a little :D
Toon Link: I'm one of the few persons that sees Young Link as the same as Toon Link (even if he is in the brink with his cameo on the Spirit Tracks stage BUT with WindWaker HD in the making, he could come back) instead of the Longshot (even if he uses it), the Grappling Hook could be his weapon, Deku Leaf as his Up + B attack, Skull Hammer as his Side + B attack, his Final Smash could be the WindWaker itself, summoning a huge tornado to blow his opponents away :D

Characters from Brawl that I think they could be back:
Lucario: It's Final Smash could be (and this is the only reason I have to think he could come back) the DigiMegaEvolution
Mewtwo: See Lucario
Meta Knight: Same moveset, just don't make him so unvulnerable
Wario: I was really expecting his Final Smash was the giant fart from the trailer, it looks better than Wario Man
Sonic: Anything different than "Curl up on the floor and attack" would be fine

Whew, that was long, the change that I look for the most is the Toon Link one, Miyamoto makes a huge deal saying that Link has different incarnations to make him use the same weapons

 

[grizby2]

id touch up on falco a little bit. he's almost luigified enough to be a separate character from fox.
yes he's much more different in brawl, but with a little push... he fly out of the nest.

 

[HarryTheChin]

Let Mario use FLUDD as a vertical recovery when pressing down-b with a fully charged up FLUDD in the air.

It would also push down enemies trying to get back on stage :3

a "soft" meteor

 

[PixelPasta]

A lot of mine are very nit-picky, but that's because I care a lot about how a character is represented in Smash. I think they all need to be treated with care and should perfectly reflect their games.
Which, by the way, Sakurai seems to be doing a pretty good job with this time around - Bowser's makeover was perfect. Pit and Samus are also pretty impressive upgrades.


-His final Smash could be a little more inspired... maybe something actually from a game
-Make him smile more - his facial expressions and personality in the Smash series does not represent what he is like in his own games.


-Make him flutter his legs when he jumps, like in SMB2
-Add the Poltergust (vacuum effect, can be aimed like FLUDD) to as his grabs/throws and the Strobulb (stuns characters who get hit by the light) as his Forward Smash.
-Change the Negative Zone to something from Luigi's Mansion. (I don't know what)
-Make him less of a weird, quirky, druggy guy and more of that cowardly-but-courageous guy we know and love from Luigi's Mansion.


-Change her final smash into Vibe Powers: depending on how well she has done in the battle, she will unleash a different emotion. Happiness if she is currently winning, Sadness if she has not KO'd opponents very much or if an ally has died, and Rage if she has been KO'd a lot. Happiness would cause her to fly around in a tornado -any opponent who touches the tornado will be rapidly damaged. Sadness would cause her to cry waterfalls of tears that would flood the stage. Rage would cause her to burst into flames - anybody who touches her would receive massive damage, and her jumps would cause tremors that bury foes.


-Make him look more like he does in Mario games
-Add a new mechanic to his Fire Breath - if the B-button is held down, the move will behave normally, but if it is tapped, it will be a new move - fireballs.
-Change his Side Special into a hammer throw. The Flying Slam can become a grab move. Hammer throwing is more important to Bowser's character (and actually happens in a game!). Plus, it would differentiate him from other heavyweights - he would have a strong projectile.
-Replace Giga Bowser with something else...


-Change his egg move to be aimable, more like it is in Yoshi's Island
-Change his tongue move to be usable in multiple directions, and make it able to grab onto ledges


-Scrap the biker suit, I think that the classic Wario Land iteration is more important and beloved. (or at least make his overalls the default...)
-Change his animations to be less jerky and weird, and more like they are in the Wario Land series (he should have an actually running animation)
-Change the Wario Bike into a full-out Shoulder Bash, like in Project M
-Change his down aerial into the ground pound from from Wario Land: Shake It
-Change his down smash into the Earthshake Punch from Wario Land: Shake It
-His grabs and pummels could draw inspiration from Wario Land: Shake It. He should grab opponents and be able to vigorously shake them to rack up damage.


-Change his dash attack to a roll!
-Change his final smash to a retro Barrel-throwing move. (he floats around on a girder throwing barrels that roll around on the stage)


-Make him less sluggish. That isn't what he is like in his own games therefore he should not be like this in Smash Bros.
-A sword beam mechanic would be cool - Link's neutral combo would fire a short-ranged projectile for as long as he is at 0% damage.


-Make him not a Captain Falcon clone already. I think that it is about time that he uses his sword.
-He should have more dark magic moves from the actual games


-Make his animations more like they are in Wind Waker (similar to what Project M did with his standard jab combo)
-Give his arrow move a random chance of firing a fire or ice arrow.
-Change his up B to the Deku Leaf - it would sort of function like a completely vertical version of Peach's parasol.
-Give him the ability to crawl
-Change his final smash to the Ballad of Gales: he would play the tune and summon a cyclone that violently tosses opponents around.
-Taunt ideas: Telescope, Pictobox


-Give her the Ice Beam as a forward smash
-Change her final smash into the Power Bomb


-Change the Hammer move back to what it was like in Melee
-Improve his inhale move so that he doesn't swallow items and projectiles - he should hold them in his mouth and be able to spit them out later (as a star, of course). He would become very slow and lose his second jumps while he has something in his mouth. Also, he should be able to absorb explosives.
-Change his final smash to the Ultra Sword from Return to Dreamland. It's been advertised like crazy for Return to Dreamland - its on all the boxes, trailers, everything. Its definitely memorable and would work as a Final Smash (grabs the smash ball and gets a massive sword and the ultra sword hat - he swings the sword around the stage, and anybody who gets sliced would receive massive damage)


-Make him generally less overpowered.


-Change his side B to Iron Tail.


-Give her some Fairy type moves.
-Change her final smash into Moon Blast.


-Give it two transformations: MegaMewtwo X, which makes it slower but stronger; and MegaMewtwo Y, which makes it quicker but weaker. I don't know how this mechanic would work, however, but it would be cool.


-Change its final smash to Close Combat - it would work like Triforce Slash but with a flurry of punches and kicks.


-Change his final smash to the Arwing!


-Make it so that his Pikmin will carry items over to him. That's their entire purpose in the Pikmin games themselves, so they should do it in smash bros!
-Give him a voice. He has a voice in the games, but when they added him to Smash, he was mute. It's a small change but will affect his personality a lot.


-Change his final smash to PK Rockin


-Change his final smash to PK Love


That's pretty much it, really, for what I can come up with from the top of my head.

 

[Renji64]

I want dk's dash attack changed to a roll like in Project M it is so useful.

 

[PrincessAzula]

I would like Zelda's moveset to be identical to how it is in Project M but we all know the chances of that happening....

 

[Networker1]

Which, by the way, Sakurai seems to be doing a pretty good job with this time around - Bowser's makeover was perfect. Pit, Link and Samus are also pretty impressive upgrades.

What changes/upgrades were announced for Link??

Also, if there is to be a second link, make it mask link with Fierce Deity final smash!

 

[nat pagle]

I would like Zelda's moveset to be identical to how it is in Project M but we all know the chances of that happening....

I'd do the same for Bowser

 

[Renji64]

I would love Lucario to be changed kinda like P:M as well he is so much agressive compared to his brawl counter part.

 

[Gene]

What Ganondorf needs:

- To NOT play like C. Falcon at all. Scrap everything he had from Captain Falcon.
- change his neutral B to the energy ball from OOT. He can angle the energy ball before throwing but it will keep a straight path after.
- Warlock Punch replaces Fsmash.
- Change the side B to Up B and let him be able to angle it in all 8 directions. It would make him more threatening off stage.
- His new side B will be that purple wind move he does from SSB Crusade. This move is something Ganondorf did in OOT and TP? It's familiar but I'm not sure of it's origin.
- New Down B will be his reflecting cape move from OOT.
- Ganondorf will have a float mechanic like Peach. I thought this would be a good idea due to him floating around and throwing energy balls at you during his boss fight in OOT.

As for his aerials and attacks someone else can do that. I'm too lazy to carry on. Maybe what his move set was from Crusade minus the clone moves?

 

[APC99]

I'd buff Wario and Yoshi, who I've already mentioned in their respective threads.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Luigi ~
I would love for Luigi to use the Poltergust as Down-B, He takes it up and sucks the the opponent closer to him, and if it gets to the Poltergust it will be stuck, so that Luigi can attack the one...

Ganondorf ~
I want Ganondorf to use a Sword, and use some dark magic like throwing people around, Kinda like the "Force"
This would be ofcourse the Z/Throw power...

Sword could either go 2 ways. He can use the Sword from the start, or Like Zelda changing to Shiek, his Down-B could have him go into "Sword" Mode...

 

[Seraphim.]

As a Lucas main I fear the FLUDD, but other than gimping certain characters it's pretty much useless.

 

[I_hate_usernames]

Non-competitively: Gannon, needs his own moveset so bad.

competitively: Can't really say, Mario maybe?

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

Make Jigglypuff's Puff Up Faster.
For FLUDD, the simplest solution is to have it shoot more water. Because by the time it would hit the enemy in Brawl, it was almost over usually. So just add more water, and for the love of God, make it inherently aim upwards, because half the time, because it was so short in terms of Duration, it would go straight to the ground. Add some nozzles, make it make the ground slippery so it actually has some use should it hit the ground, and we're good.

 

[RODO]

The only person you can't debate against having a moveset change: GANONDORF

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

The only person you can't debate against having a moveset change: GANONDORF

If only that were the case But because of competitive play and because a good number of people main Ganondorf, they'll be reluctant to change the moveset radically.

What Ganondorf needs:

- To NOT play like C. Falcon at all. Scrap everything he had from Captain Falcon.
- change his neutral B to the energy ball from OOT. He can angle the energy ball before throwing but it will keep a straight path after.
- Warlock Punch replaces Fsmash.
- Change the side B to Up B and let him be able to angle it in all 8 directions. It would make him more threatening off stage.
- His new side B will be that purple wind move he does from SSB Crusade. This move is something Ganondorf did in OOT and TP? It's familiar but I'm not sure of it's origin.
- New Down B will be his reflecting cape move from OOT.
- Ganondorf will have a float mechanic like Peach. I thought this would be a good idea due to him floating around and throwing energy balls at you during his boss fight in OOT.

As for his aerials and attacks someone else can do that. I'm too lazy to carry on. Maybe what his move set was from Crusade minus the clone moves?

But the new Crusade isn't out yet....was that in the stream?


Also Sonic needs a new Side B that ISN'T a ramming attack of some kind.

 

[BaPr]

Also Sonic needs a new Side B that ISN'T a ramming attack of some kind.

Sonic wind kick. When on the ground, he does a short hop and uses the wind blade kick. When on the air, he stops in place, does the wind blade kick, and goes a little upwards. It affects Sonic the same way the cape affects Mario when used in the air.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

Sonic wind kick. When on the ground, he does a short hop and uses the wind blade kick. When on the air, he stops in place, does the wind blade kick, and goes a little upwards. It affects Sonic the same way the cape affects Mario when used in the air.

Maybe, but all I can visualize from that description is that Spinning Kick from Street Fighter xD

 

[BaPr]

Maybe, but all I can visualize from that description is that Spinning Kick from Street Fighter xD

Look at what Sonic does to the caterpillar robots. That's the kick I was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=koMru0MVkYw&t=78

 

[StriCNYN3]

Ehh, what the hell.

Falco: Return of the OG swag he had in Melee but now with two lasers like was shown in that SSE cutscene in Brawl.

Wolf: (Not a vet but...) Basically PM: Wolf but with a Nair similar to Bowser's new nair in Smash 4.

Samus: Can switch between different beams like in Prime and Super Metroid (while charging, press the D Pad in 4 directions for either Plasma, Spazer, Ice or Wave beam). Agility should be like Other M, though it seems they might have actually gotten that down in Smash 4.

Sonic: (Not a vet too, but I see him mentioned here so...) Sonic Battle moveset. Insta Shield for B that makes Sonic invincible for half a frame like Sonic 3. Quick Step for dodge/ counter maneuvering. Could be akin to Lucario's but without the auto attack.

 

[extremechiton]

have sonic use chaos spear as a new side special.

 

[Yoichi Hiruma]

have sonic use chaos spear as a new side special.

That's more Shadow's thing than Sonic's.

 

[Gene]

If only that were the case But because of competitive play and because a good number of people main Ganondorf, they'll be reluctant to change the moveset radically.



But the new Crusade isn't out yet....was that in the stream?


Also Sonic needs a new Side B that ISN'T a ramming attack of some kind.

Ganondorf is in version 0.9. I've already gotten a chance to play 0.9 a bunch of times at offline tourneys and Ganon more accurate then what Sakurai has done for him. Take notes Sakurai. :l

 

[Diddy Kong]

I have quite a lot of ideas of revamping basically all characters.

: Make his attack link much better, like in Melee . Forward Air becomes more of a mix between Dr.Mario's Forward Air and his own, as was implied in the Brawl beta demo. Back Air becomes a very slight semi-spike again, and his Forward Smash is easier to hit / finish with. Would've never opted for making F.L.U.D.D return, but now that it's here make it at least stun slightly at higher %s, and make it more useful in general. Recovery should also be boosted a lot. He's fricking JUMPMAN... He should be able to JUMP. His Fire Balls should stun like in N64.

: Melee Forward Aerial please! Dat Karate Chop man... It was sorely missed. Make his running speed somewhat faster to. Down B becoming Poltergeist is also a good idea.

More to come later. Will cover all characters that I feel should make it back.

 

[liets]

i say change toon link to the one from link between worlds. give him the hammer and such, keep some original link moves, just change them enough that they don't play the same as regular link
wolf is fine-ish, change him some (i calculated him to be a 36% fox clone)
make falco less like fox (any way that works, really)
lower MK's general speed, strength, and attack priority
tone down ike's damage and smash-send distance. possibly tone up his throws