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What (realistic) buffs do you expect to see Samus get in the upcoming patch?

Afro Smash

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More hitstun on Jab 1 and faster roll aren't out of the question imo

And ik this is similar to the other thread. but that was for dreams, this is for tears
 
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GdspdUblkprzdnt

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How can we seriously discuss this with our new B-ball overlord watching us? Let's keep this on the downlow until Grandmaster Shaq leaves us to our machines.
 

CyranoNester

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Less start-up lag for regular bombs itself, and deal a bit more damage and knockback

I do like how bombs are a timer-contact hybrid, but that timer is just too long
 

Fancykong

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Fix Upsmash for starters. Make it start lower so it can pull characters in.
 

DungeonMaster

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No teching grounded meteors or make the window very very small. That could very reasonably happen.
They won't fix the jab, that's by design Sakurai wants it. I'm actually fine with it as is.
The tether grab on the other hand - that could/should reasonably be fixed, it really should be faster to come out and have less cooldown. The cooldown is just insane right now. Not being able to shield grab is likewise an enormous issue.
The grab game needs more work than the jab game in my opinion. Jab1-2 at the very least works at higher %. Grab is just terrible at any %, in close, or far.
The cooldown on f-smash could also definitely be reduced.
The roll will likely not get fixed, we can hope but my impression is this character is by design supposed to SH AD instead of rolling.
Might simply get more speed overall. Doubtful, but may happen.
I seriously doubt changes to missiles to make them viable. Slower or faster would change everything, slower being better of course.
They may change charge shot release. Their docs say it's "released almost instantly in the air" but the reality is it's very nearly as slow as d-air.
Fixed and improved hitboxes? There's a long list of things that look like they hit, but don't. I'm hoping they read the thread about 3D vs 2D hitboxes. Samus' nair is in that category, particularly the back-kick.
Making her combos less tight in execution? More hitstun? It's possible. Would be cool.
 
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HeroMystic

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Samus' Jab being useless is not preferable, but tolerable. F-tilt does the job pretty well and it just means Samus has a dead zone in footsies. It's not a crippling problem.

If they aren't going to buff Samus' missiles to make them worth it (either more damage, or faster fire rate), they definitely should address Samus' melee. U-Smash is straight up useless vs every character, and there's not enough reward for U-tilt and D-tilt (D-tilt seriously needs to become a kill move) to make them worth a lot. Grab is also way too risky for how little reward it gives out.

I'm actually expecting Samus to get some positive changes. She's ranked very lowly on the Japanese tier list and we view her as a Bottom 15 character, and she has some really polarizing MUs against her.
 

Bearbuddy4

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Isn't samus pretty good already? She is fine where she is. But I don't play her much so I don't know 100%. If sakurai was generous she would get less end lag. But playing against samus is a pain anyway, Since I main bowser I feel like its cat and mouse all match.

She sprints and rolls away to charge her "B" , and I try to shield and dodge the projectiles. And repeat that cycle.
 

HeroMystic

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Isn't samus pretty good already?
No.

Charged Shot is her best move, but not in the way you're speaking of. Samus has the slowest roll in the game and you could literally charge F-Smash as she's rolling to punish it and kill her for free.

I suggest doing more research on the character (or simply reading this thread to get the gist).
 

Afro Smash

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Well we cant actually sprint away since bowser is quicker than us, and our roll is very punishable. Also having a decent match up vs bowser (debatable) =/= no buffs needed
 

Bearbuddy4

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No.

Charged Shot is her best move, but not in the way you're speaking of. Samus has the slowest roll in the game and you could literally charge F-Smash as she's rolling to punish it and kill her for free.

I suggest doing more research on the character (or simply reading this thread to get the gist).
seriously?
 
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Fancykong

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seriously?
It's true, just yesterday I tried to get away from a smash-happy Falcon player. He would just dash past the long-timer bombs and use his awkward fsmash to cover my entire roll distance. Combined with easy powershielding and the fact that my grab was almost worthless, I'm surprised that I won. Bowser can easily run the distance of her roll and use Up B or something else.
 
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DungeonMaster

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seriously?
Seriously. HeroMystic is not making things up as exaggeration. If you anticipate an attack and roll behind someone you basically can't attack them. If they anticipate your own roll, they can hit you with pretty much any move, it's that slow.
It has no counter-offensive capacity, and as a purely defensive option it's terrible.

Again, it's not the thing I would most fix, but hey I wouldn't be upset if...
 
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Bearbuddy4

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It's true, just yesterday I tried to get away from a smash-happy Falcon player. He would just dash past the long-timer bombs and use his awkward fsmash to cover my entire roll distance. Combined with easy powershielding and the fact that my grab was almost worthless, I'm surprised that I won. Bowser can easily run the distance of her roll and use Up B or something else.

Falcon though
Seriously. HyroMystic is not making things up as exaggeration. If you anticipate an attack and roll behind someone you basically can't attack them. If they anticipate your own roll, they can hit you with pretty much any move, it's that slow.
It has no offensive capacity, and as a defensive option it's terrible.

Well I can agree with that.
 

Fancykong

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seriously?

edit: ignore this comment. Its the internet after all. I just got home from my teaching job, I don't want to debate with kids anymore anyway. Just delete this
...that's an interesting outlook. I'm a teacher as well.
 

MegaBlaster1234

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Make Down Smash worth using again, and buff UpB so that it traps consistently and kills maybe 10% earlier.
 

Hapajin

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At least some damage buffs , increased hitbox sizes, and/or increased air speed would be nice.

As for move specific buffs-

-all her smash attacks need in improvements
- missile buff in some form, even if we can't cancel them still. (maybe even allow more than one super missile out at once, or more than 2 seeking missiles?)
-less recoil/endlag on DCS
 

link2702

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I just want her to have shorter end lag from firing missiles...if they won't bring back missile cancelling then please dear god at least give them overall shorter end lag.

Jab needs to be fixed too, both hits should link up, it doesn't make much sense for them not to.
Like others said fix her Up smash, really why is this move still so bad this many games in...
 

Fancykong

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I'm so afraid that she's going to be nerfed. This wait is killing me.
 

Reydiance

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I'm so afraid that she's going to be nerfed. This wait is killing me.
Wouldn't be surprised if team Sakurai still believes she's the best character in the game. Charge Shot kills to early! Meanwhile let's buff ZSS!! /s

Honestly though, I too worry if they continue to nerf characters based on FG "complaints" (see Little Mac).
 

Road Death Wheel

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mmm if i were to want a buff i would rather her d smash kill. and nairs body being a hit box.
I rather like her jab. and i use customs to solve her other problems so i really don't care about missle buffs or bomb buffs.

maybe more kill power on screw attack as well.

But overall i think people just need to be labbing more i have a pretty gud tourny samus.


also seriously people need to be using mega bomb.
 
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Xygonn

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So I've been looking at it. And Samus hasn't had any changes since release (look at the diffs on dantarion's site). I find it highly unlikely Samus will get any changes at all.

Her only move that isn't clearly meant to be bad is dsmash. It's disproportionately weak compared to other dsmashes especially for the speed. Compare it to similar front/back dsmashes like mario, yoshi, diddy, etc. It just doesn't make sense. I will hope and pray for a dsmash buff, but I doubt it will happen.
 

Xyro77

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Seamus has had zero changes to her since day one. I doubt this patch will do anything to her.
 

MegaBlaster1234

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F-tilt and Down Smash have no reason being as weak as they currently are.
F-tilt is excusable since it leads into Charge Beam nicely, but there's no reason you need to both tilt it and hit the sweetspot in order for it to do 8%. And for being a heavyweight character, her Down Smash KO-ing at like 180% with max rage is ludicrous.
 
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DungeonMaster

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From a game design perspective they are weighing all the factors and I have often speculated what the mind of the designer is thinking.

I can understand how initially, they were reticent to adjust smash4 Samus, if you simply write things down on paper she has a lot of things going for her.
Very heavy yet not the slowest, high combo capability, fastest and powerful f-smash, multiple projectiles, highly damaging kill projectile, shield breaking options, tether recovery, z-air, good even great tilt range, good damage (really good in combos), invincible out-of-shield up-B, several kill moves beyond smashes, multiple tech chase starters.
So then they try and balance it out, and from the design perspective it's clear: bad jab. This character cannot have a good jab. Throw them a bone if they manage to severely damage their opponent.
Likewise set in stone: this character cannot have a good grab. If they land one, throw them a bone with some combo potential out of it.
Worst roll. Punish this character for rolling away. A good roll would circumvent bad jab and bad grab, can't happen.
Terrible up-smash, terrible d-smash. Make them the worst in the game.
Add cooldown, lots of cooldown. She's a heavyweight, a super-heavyweight, cannot have moves with no cooldown. Particularly given fast startup on attacks.
No disjoints, the player of this character must be super precise, no excuses, skin tight hitboxes and hurtboxes right beside each other.
Floatiness I think in the designer's mind is beneficial, not detrimental. I'm pretty sure it's seen as a positive.

Where things went a bit wrong in the balance equation...
Rage means anyone can peform d-throw -> up-air with Diddy, because the range of applicability is literally 30 -180% with rage and DI factored out. Much more narrow range combo like up-tilt -> SH CS is very much more difficult to land because the % are always changing. No one, aside from loons like me are actually going to go to the trouble of training to add 1/10th of Samus' damage to the opponent's damage mid-match. Yes the payoff is destruction, but it's painful.
Teching grounded meteors, I'm not sure when that decision was made but I still think it's wrong. Very wrong. This is smash, we like to see things bounce around the screen, even the most casual of players. This is a terrible decision and it hurts Samus more than any other character.
Too much cooldown. Just too much. Particularly missiles and grab...
Skin tight hitboxes and proximity hurtboxes, simply too skin tight relative to rest of cast.

Again, I absolutely love playing this character even as is, way way way more than Brawl. I see many decisions set in stone, that are likely not to change. Others, really could/should change and may not be critical to design intent. If they do change something my bet is again teching, (some) cooldown and maybe maybe hitobox/hurtbox modification.
I for one am a bit frustrated by f-tilting into Sonic's up-smash and having his multi-hit not only out-prioritize me (makes no #$% sense) AND fully drag me into it from the extended portion of my leg. The same does not happen with my own up-smash, not even close.
I'm fine with "to land XYZ with this complicated character and blow them away you have to be really good". In fact I will always gravitate towards that type of character. I'm not fine with "the brain-dead simple always has advantage".
Incidents like that make me question the design. I'm not sure that's design intent, if it is truly the design intent, I really want to hurt someone.
 
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