What makes a player good?

[Cruise]

well i was just wondering a bit after watching some videos

what separates the pros from the other pros, the top 10 from the top 25

so i got to thinking, what makes a player good?

i came up with a pretty good list i think, but i'd like to know some of your opinions as well.

for me its this (in no particular order)

1) tech - yea, tech can only get you so far, as we see with bombsoldier and m2k, but tech is still the mark of a pro, and anyways pros all know what their doing techwise, but you just dont need insane amounts of tech to be great

2) mindgames -to me this is what separates the best from the rest. mindgames are sort of like tier breakers. i've seen low/mid tiers with great mindgames beat out high/upper tiers, and not just as counterpicks

3) reading the opponent- i thought this should be its own category cos for me, mindgames is how you force your opponent to act, but reading them is what you do with how they act.

4) luck - a very small percentage of what makes a great player has to be luck. its why no one wins 100% of the time. sometimes the ships on corneria will shoot you in the middle of a combo and ruin it, or maybe wispy woods gives you that extra push off the stage when you dont need it, and stuff just like missing the ledge on battlefield cos you up Bd a fraction too late.

5) comboing- i couldnt decide whether this was part of tech or reading opponents, but i thought combos get their own section as well. maybe its as simple as upthrow rest for jiggs and maybe its as complicated as a 0 - 120 CG from the ICs or fairs across the stage into a dair for marth. i'm a bit ambivalent on this issue. sometimes someone will combo someone else up to 100 and take only 10, but then suddenly they die, from like a spike or something, and other times people just poke away at the % a few hits at a time, but win the stock.

6) awareness- sometimes combos dont always work the way you want them to, but having the awareness of when a combo will fail and compromising or improvising or adapting to finish the combo differently makes a player good. i guess overall intelligence has to do with it as well. I don't mean you have to be a nerd and analyze frame data and go like "wow that falco could have l cancelled 2 frames earlier" but like, just knowing what to do and when to do it. usually in every game i've ever played, this is the case. smarter players are always better players

so what are your views

 

[Obikun]

You forgot the "dedication" towards the game. Remember, you might know all the tricks in smash, but if you're not "into the game", then all those skills you have would be for nothing because you end up getting "own" by some noob who really wants to be good at smash instead of someone who knows how to play smash but doesn't put effort when playing. That is something that I think all of the top smashers have.

 

[Cruise]

yea, good point
smashers put in a lot of practice and heart into this game

 

[pdk]

an understanding of mixups (doing run forward -> WD back -> run forward again isn't enough here, ideally you should be able to plan for the next few seconds), which moves work for which purpose (and why you'd want to use each option) and how to apply them effectively (a good example here is DK's fair, otherwise wonderful move but extremely situational), keeping their eyes open for patterns so that they can anticipate their opponents' most likely actions a few seconds in advance, and knowing just how to cover for their mistakes when they guess wrong or walk into something that puts them at a disadvantage

i guess you could call it mindgames but frankly newbies would get a lot of the wrong ideas from seeing that term thrown around so haphazardly

 

[dguy6789]

I would say nothing is more important to being a good player than experience. Aside from experience, dedication separates those players.

 

[xDeniedx]

gotta agree with dguy, you could be dedicated more to the game than anyone but if you are only playing level 9 computer all the time, you don't get a whole lot of experience of what to do in different situations.

 

[sagemoon]

I would put in knowledge of the game- Knowing what attacks outpriotize what and how long it will lag the opponent. This can mix up attacks and create stun locks on your opponent. I've noticed players like ken are really good at getting the first hit in or outprioritizing the opponents on every move. This also contributes to combos sort of. Knowing what moves will combo into other moves.

 

[McCloud]

Himself/herself.



haha. I love being philosophical.



It's all about experience. Srlsy.

 

[Anther]

My views.

First step is having the tech skill (Being able to do most of what your character is capable of)
Second step is to be able to trust the majority of your techs.
Third is to be confident the entire match, no matter what, otherwise you'll probably lose.
Fourth, take note of when and how your opponent reacts (tech standing, tech roll away or towards your character)
Fifth, don't get hit.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

High levels of dedication, effort, time, perseverance, attitude, and skill make a pro.

 

[KevinM]

Experience, Dedication, Perseverance, those are big ones..

I think another big one is the ability to learn from your losses that was a huge help when i first started off

and unfortunately Natural Talent is a big one.

 

[MVPaintballer]

mvp > cruise !!!!
I would say exp and knowledge =p.

 

[StellaNova]

Experience, Dedication, Perseverance, those are big ones..

I think another big one is the ability to learn from your losses that was a huge help when i first started off

and unfortunately Natural Talent is a big one.

uhhhh Looking at this from the perspective of reality.... no one is born with the natural ability to smash. It does not run through genetics... All things are learned in Smash, there is no innate ability for someone to waveshine.

 

[Cruise]

well there are people who are innovative and pioneer styles, or are the first to figure out how to do something, and there are people who only use other people's combos and have no original style

 

[MASAHIROx]

1. Massive chunks of your life
2. Being very good at camping
3. Very high technical skill (see No. 1)
4. Experience (see No. 1)
5. Playing smart/to win
6. Capitalizing on mistakes
7. Patience
RANDOMNESS
8. Spacing (see No. 1)
9. Reading (see No. 1)

or you could just randomly have "it" in you like PC Chris

or azen... after beating kens marth in dittos...he rather play maple story.

 

[MookieRah]

mindgames -to me this is what separates the best from the rest. mindgames are sort of like tier breakers. i've seen low/mid tiers with great mindgames beat out high/upper tiers, and not just as counterpicks

I wonder how many people in this thread truly know what mind games are, and since you mentioned it, I beat a lot of really skilled high/top tiered characters with Mewtwo without a firm grasp on mind gaming by just using a **** good strategy. The reason why I won is cause nobody knew how to fight a Mewtwo, much less a good one, so I could win even with the disadvantage by having a VERY good understanding of all my bad matchups. I got ***** in a lot of low tier stuff, cause I never had a strategy against them. I preferred fighting the good characters, and really hated when they beat me via patronizing me. Ironic, isn't it?

When you get down to it, you shouldn't worry about breaking what makes a good player down, if you want to improve look only at yourself. Find what your faults are and work with them. If you miss a lot of l-cancels, focus on that. If you suck at getting off combos, practice that and learn to observe and predict DI. If you have any sort of pattern in your play, work on breaking it. If your strategy doesn't work, learn a new one. If you are playing by instinct, learn to think and observe while you play. The list goes on and on. If you do these things, you will be great.

 

[Samael_78]

basically what everyone else said. a lot of practice, a lot of determination, and just learning what to do in every situation (which is alos practice)

 

[7734]

All of the stuff you guys listed, but also playing loose and comfortable is a big deal for me. When I play with some friends which are very good, I do really well. When I go to tourny I play all sloppy. My friends do well because they are loose when playing. I'm sure I'll get over it though.

 

[Rage.]

Which one can destroy the others confidence first.
Pull off a **** combo first stock and BAM!
opponets confidence is gone and they will lose

 

[Lightshade]

Would you know what makes a pro? Not the techniques, or moves, or wavedashing, or the character, but simply understanding. You must understand the game to have a chance to have skill at the game. Once you understand the game, and the true meaning of the game. I might sound deep to some of you, but I am only so deep as you want to think of this. Once you understand the game, you can hone your skills to become a pro at the game. This requires time, effort, skill, and determination. That is all.

~Lightshade

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I'd refer to that other topic about skill growth, about the people you play, you know, the scrub, the peer, and the pro.

 

[Nick Nasty]

Mookie Rah's thread is kinda similar to this one. Anyway, what the others are saying about dedication, heart and so on is basically all that you're missing. Other than that, nice thread.

 

[gunnac]

As much as you guys dont like it KevinM is RIGHT. He means natural talent in terms of reflex speed quick thinking, just being able to press the buttons faster. There definately IS a such thing as natural talent in smash. True it may be easier to overcome a natural good gamer at smash (given the nature of the game) as compared to other games but natural talent is part of it. Take for example the first time you played smash w/ your friends (most people start off playing people who also have never played) one of you guys won the most. This was probably the guy who usually wins games you play. Unfortunately, as much as you dont like it, natural talent is what made him better. Easily overcome in smash but i thought id adress it because too many people try to say it doesnt matter but it does. This should motivate you to beat people more talented by working hard (not to be used as an excuse). I btw have very little natural talent for fighters but have gotten good through hard work.

 

[gunnac]

sorry after rereading my post it is a bit over the top BUT i dont retract it

Everybody elses comments were good ways to overcome natural skill inbalence

 

[Cruise]

yea definitely some people just cant get good at smash cos they never learn how to play their own way

and yea, i realize now how big a part dedication and experience and understanding are

 

[KevinM]

uhhhh Looking at this from the perspective of reality.... no one is born with the natural ability to smash. It does not run through genetics... All things are learned in Smash, there is no innate ability for someone to waveshine.

Normally i'd ignore you but the pompous way you answered this ignored me so here we go..

Look you don't have a natural ability to waveshine, wow congrats your sarcasm is awesome..

Unfortunately your wrong because you can have natural abilities in things,

You want to tell me that like prodigies of baseball we're just born with a perfect swing...

No they weren't but they had natural talent and can do it perfectly now..

The thing is some people can grasp it, and some people can't

 

[go2chutch]

1)tech skill- its just necessary to have the best possible tools available. practice, combos, reaction speed, DI, adaptation everything with the exception of the other thing mentioned below is tech skill, tech skill is a very broad term in my dictionary at least

2)mindset- a real pro knows how to keep his head in the game and knows when he doesnt need to because his tech skill can compensate. My friends and i have a thing called playing generic, which is playing without thinking basicly doing what you regularly do without any regard to your opponents reactions or spacing and then basicly letting yourself go oooooh and ahhhh when you see something like a tipper or knee combo rather than thinking about your next actions. a good player is able to keep himself focused on his spacing, maintain his tech skill, as well as react to his opponent and change his habits on the fly.

 

[bjdavis69]

This is a random question, but i was wondering what fingers everyone uses on controller. Do you use thumb to hit x/y to jump, or side of pointer finger for example, with middle finger on R. This could free thumb to use b button for fox shine dash, although this may be very awkward to do. Just curious as to how people hold controller and if you think that holding controller differently with different characters has advantages/disadvantages. Obviously there are really stupid ways to hold the controller, Im not talking about these. Thanks

 

[Binx]

I think its more about mindgames which are improved through tech skill, you cant have good mind games if all you know how to do is stand still and forward smash. Tech skill incorporates combos and advance tactics, so there are no need for you to have 3 things revolving around that. Mindgames are how well you predict your opponent as well as hard you are to predict. The reason I think ken wins most of his matches is because I can watch a match with him in it, and then watch that same match and have no idea of what he is going to do the whole match lol. Observation and things like speed of thought help improve mindgames and I think that they deserve mentioning. Also a good part of having good reaction comes from it being just that a reaction, the time it takes you to think should I forward air this guy is the time it takes to get faired before you even press the buttons against someone better than you. But yeah thats just my oppinion, you can sum most play in smash by two very broad terms simply because smash is so different from other fighting games.

 

[Hotshot]

1. Dedicaton to the game.
2. Lots of expierence (especially with human players).
3. Being able to predict things in advance.
4. Knowing more than just the basics.
5. Staying focused on your opponent and your goal (victory).
6. Never giving up, even when it looks grim.
7. The ability to pull mind games sucessfully.
8. Having good reactions.
9. Being able to come back from bad situations.
10. Having multiple strategies planned, in case you need them.