What is up with Ryu? Broken much?

[WwwWario]

Sorry for this little rant post, but I've found Ryu to be straight up OP from day 1. And I still stand by that. And after playing today, I felt I just had to share my own thoughts on him.

I just ask this: What are his cons? He has a projectile, a good projectile, for spacing and approaching. He is crazy powerful (His Fair does 15 damage, and his Bair does 16! Like.....what?!). He can cover lots of options because of his ability to have 2 different tilts and 2 different jabs. I've seen some people saying his recovery is as bad as Little Mac's.... huh? His Up B is for starters a lot higher than Mac's, even though this one too have very little horizontal movement. Still, he has his Side B, and his Focus Punch that he can cancel and get momentum, plus that his Focus Punch gives him a 1-hit super armor that makes it a bit safer to recover, too. He has a Spike. He has a power-version of each Special, except for his Focus Punch, that don't have any downsides compared to the regular specials. They are just straight up more powerful versions, that's it. And I'm looking at you, Shoryuken. That move.... what were they THINKING? For example, I was playing as Ganondorf against Ryu today, and Ganon is one of the heaviest in the game. His power-Shoryuken killed Ganon at UNDER 90%... WHAT? And the thing is, it doesn't have a lot of cooldown or anything, even though it is punishable, sure. It comes out extremely fast, and he flies upwards very fast, so it's not the easiest move to punish. It even doesn't have more cooldown than his regular Up B, which I find stupid. There's really no reason to use his normal Up B if you know how to use the power version of it. His Side B is excellent for punishing rollers or punishing other moves, like Ganon's Wizard's Kick or missed Flame Choke. His Strong Side Tilt is a very, very good Shield Breaker move. He has very little landing lag on areals.

I mean - What the heck are his cons? He is so good in every way, he can basically do everything. There's nothing he lacks.

Then, I come to my final point that really made me just... depressed. Not mad, didn't rage, I just shut down the game and got sad. I'm talking about his infinite Up Tilt. I was using Ganon, and he isn't the biggest in the game (like DK, Bowser etc), even though he is big. But still, if he just landed 1 weak up tilt, I was doomed. He would drag me across the stage with it, lock me, and I couldn't do ANYTHING. I tried DI-ing, Nair-ing, anything. Nothing worked, because I was still in hitstun when he landed the next one, and he could easily just follow me around the stage, so DI-ing was pretty much useless. As we got to the edge, the damage was racked up, and he could easily jump up and land his meteor Down Air. That's when I quit.

Someone, please explain to me what Ryu's deal is. There's nothing he's NOT good at. He's extremly powerful, both air and ground, has a decent enough recovery to be this good, has a good projectile, has a shield break, a disgusting KO move in form of his power-Shoryuken, his Focus Punch, his Up Tilt Lock that's impossible to escape, lagless areals... yeah. Please explain to me.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Simple : His recover is very predictable, like Luigi. So you can easily edgeguard him. (I can assure you, i play Ryu and being off-stage and trying to recover is very difficult.) Also Ryu lack Kill set-up that are efficace. Yes the weak Up-tilt is crazy good against opponent but you have still to be at CAC for do a U-tilt combo. Which is not easy since Ryu hadoken is a OK projectile that he is not very powerful. (He can pressure and rack-up damage but it's really not that great.) Also land the strong forward tilt ( The one that can break shield.) demand like a hard read. It's really slow and the opponent can punish you easily. Same for the Shoryuken, you kinda need a read for land it. Also Ryu Smash are kinda slow. All of i have say is just my opinion of course. I'm not a pro player or a Ryu main so maybe i'm wrong. But i hope that i answer you question.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Tagging @ Emblem Lord cause he actually knows what he is talking about when it comes to Ryu, so he could point out his weaknesses for you in great detail.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ryu stomps Ganon lemme just say that right now. It's more even with customs but Ganon and Ryu are both footsies characters but Ryu has far better mobility, recovery, kill confirms, combos and options in general. They both hit like freight trains so Ryu can actually go toe to toe with Ganon which is rare for a character that is faster then him as well. Ryus Focus Attack messes up Ganons basic plan of putting people into guessing games then unloading with a powerful smash or fair. That guessing game is what strikes fear into Ganons opponents. Ryu doesnt care about that because he can kill Ganon just as fast as Ganon can kill him if not faster.

For Ganon to beat Ryu it is a must that Ganon force Ryu to tatsu so he can land spikes. That is the most consistent way for Ganon to win this match. Yeah Ganon dies to utilt locks. You gotta smash DI those but past about 30% its basically a done deal. You CAN avoid being spiked but either way he will rack up alot of damage on Ganon, which sucks.

Unfortunately Ganon is kind of outclassed here. I neutral its about baiting a button from Ryu then punishing his recovery on his aerials. Jabbing hadoukens is really good. Ryu will have frame advantage if you do that but not as much if you had blocked and you wont take shield damage. You can powershield blue hadoukens as well and shield drop in 1 frame. Important for closing distance and mitigating Ryus advantage in terms of the numbers game. For spacing remember you can jump hadoukens or roll past. If you jump or roll on reaction and try to punish Ryu he will just beat your face in. But if you predicted a hadouken and jumped or rolled THEN you can punish.

Its just..super rough for Ganon as Ryu can invalidate his main advantages. He doesnt care about Ganon's weight or damage. Ryu is almost as heavy and can rack up damage faster and control space better.

 

[WwwWario]

Ryu stomps Ganon lemme just say that right now. It's more even with customs but Ganon and Ryu are both footsies characters but Ryu has far better mobility, recovery, kill confirms, combos and options in general. They both hit like freight trains so Ryu can actually go toe to toe with Ganon which is rare for a character that is faster then him as well. Ryus Focus Attack messes up Ganons basic plan of putting people into guessing games then unloading with a powerful smash or fair. That guessing game is what strikes fear into Ganons opponents. Ryu doesnt care about that because he can kill Ganon just as fast as Ganon can kill him if not faster.

For Ganon to beat Ryu it is a must that Ganon force Ryu to tatsu so he can land spikes. That is the most consistent way for Ganon to win this match. Yeah Ganon dies to utilt locks. You gotta smash DI those but past about 30% its basically a done deal. You CAN avoid being spiked but either way he will rack up alot of damage on Ganon, which sucks.

Unfortunately Ganon is kind of outclassed here. I neutral its about baiting a button from Ryu then punishing his recovery on his aerials. Jabbing hadoukens is really good. Ryu will have frame advantage if you do that but not as much if you had blocked and you wont take shield damage. You can powershield blue hadoukens as well and shield drop in 1 frame. Important for closing distance and mitigating Ryus advantage in terms of the numbers game. For spacing remember you can jump hadoukens or roll past. If you jump or roll on reaction and try to punish Ryu he will just beat your face in. But if you predicted a hadouken and jumped or rolled THEN you can punish.

Its just..super rough for Ganon as Ryu can invalidate his main advantages. He doesnt care about Ganon's weight or damage. Ryu is almost as heavy and can rack up damage faster and control space better.

Very well explained, thank you I wish Ganon truly was better, or Ryu worse, I don't know what would be most fair. As you say, everything Ganon can do, Ryu can do better (or, Ganon is a bit heavier, and has more knockback on some moves, but that doesn't really help a lot). It's really sad...

 

[Nexin]

Ryu is very good, but he isn't broken. In my experience, a lot of players just don't completely understand how to fight Ryu yet since he plays more like a traditional Street Fighter character than a Smash Bros character. Once people know what to look out for when they face him, then he won't seem anywhere near as powerful.

As Emblem Lord stated, this is also an absolutely brutal matchup for Ganondorf. I have a friend who uses Ganondorf as a secondary, but he only uses Ness, his main, whenever I use Ryu simply because Ganondorf has way too many issues getting anything started in this matchup.

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

Ryu is, in my opinion, a solid high tier character. Some of Ryu's cons that he has a linear recovery (not bad in terms of distance though), particularly unsafe aerials on block (extra freeze frames), predictable approach options (a good spacing game to make up for it), his projectiles are easy to destroy (still useful though), he can't "weave" while in the air (once he jumps in a direction, he can't change directions without using his double jump or special move, so jumping forward is a bit of a commitment), down smash and upsmash are not particularly good kill moves, no kill throws or throws that can be comboed out of, and requires more execution than other characters.

Of course, I do believe his strengths outweigh his weaknesses (for the most part). He is no doubt a very solid character but I personally don't view him as "overpowered" but I can be viewed as biased I suppose.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Half the stuff you listed arent even real weaknesses.

Its just stuff that separates real Ryu mains from the fodder.

I mean, why would anyone play Ryu if they don't wanna have fun executing motions?

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

That's one way to look at it I suppose. I feel satisfied with what I have posted and I stand by it.

 

[SaikyoBro]

I think he's a solid mid-tier. Playing as Ganon against him sounds like a nightmare, but he has a lot of absolutely awful match-ups. He loses hard to both camping and rushdown, focus attack is really hard to get any use out of against characters with lots of multiple hit attacks (Sheik, Pit/Dark Pit, Sonic, even Zelda), both of his fireballs are really not very good (I don't understand why red fireball has only one hit of durability, having multiple hits is basically the point of the move in SFIV), he's one of three characters in the game with a down smash that doesn't hit behind him, there's a lot of areas where Ryu struggles pretty hard. The only match-ups I think he takes pretty free are heavyweights and sword characters, and I actually think he's pretty good against Rosalina since he can dispose of Luma pretty quickly. He loses to just about every other top-tier in the game pretty badly imo.

He has a lot of strengths and good tools (great priority and absurd strength on aerials, ridiculous damage off of elbow jab, etc.) but against half the cast he doesn't get a good opportunity to use these tools. Like it was said earlier in this thread, the belief that he's OP comes from Smash players having to learn how to deal with tools their game has never had before, but once you learn to start baiting focus and learning how to effectively space/pressure Ryu there really isn't a whole lot he can do.

While we're on the subject one thing I disagree with with a lot of other Ryu mains is that his recovery is weak. Midair FADC is tricky and tatsu goes really far, if you mix things up he has plenty of options to avoid being hit off-stage.

 

[SaikyoBro]

double post my bad

 

[Emblem Lord]

I wanna deconstruct your post....but **** it.

It's wrong. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd....

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah.

I will post more later when im in the mood. Maybe

 

[SaikyoBro]

I wanna deconstruct your post....but **** it.

It's wrong. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd....

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah.

I will post more later when im in the mood. Maybe

I'll be looking forward to it.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

I wanna deconstruct your post....but **** it.

It's wrong. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd.... you're wrong. I've bee. Trying to tell you lmfao "troll mode activated"

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah.

I will post more later when im in the mood. Maybe

lol you'll never be in
The mood

 

[NerdThomas3]

I always seem to have trouble using his Street Fighter commands. If I input a command perfectly, it does something else and it screws me up. Especially if I'm knocked back off the stage and need to recover. I need to side-B but there's someone there ready to pounce. So I need to use the Sakunetsu Hadouken . It flies farther and has decent knockback. I input the command and I end up doing a Shoryuken and I die. I don't know why it's impossible to input these commands when it should be a walk in the park.

 

[Planty]

I always seem to have trouble using his Street Fighter commands. If I input a command perfectly, it does something else and it screws me up. Especially if I'm knocked back off the stage and need to recover. I need to side-B but there's someone there ready to pounce. So I need to use the Sakunetsu Hadouken . It flies farther and has decent knockback. I input the command and I end up doing a Shoryuken and I die. I don't know why it's impossible to input these commands when it should be a walk in the park.

Try using the A button instead of B.

 

[DisidisiD]

I always seem to have trouble using his Street Fighter commands. If I input a command perfectly, it does something else and it screws me up. Especially if I'm knocked back off the stage and need to recover. I need to side-B but there's someone there ready to pounce. So I need to use the Sakunetsu Hadouken . It flies farther and has decent knockback. I input the command and I end up doing a Shoryuken and I die. I don't know why it's impossible to input these commands when it should be a walk in the park.

What likely happened is you were holding forward to before you inputted the Shaku input and it read the whole input as a shoryuken input. Also, hadouken goes just as far as Shaku so you could just press b. You don't need to do the input version. But anyway, if you want shaku then just let go of forward, wait a few frames, and then input the shaku input. That ought to work.

 

[NerdThomas3]

What likely happened is you were holding forward to before you inputted the Shaku input and it read the whole input as a shoryuken input. Also, hadouken goes just as far as Shaku so you could just press b. You don't need to do the input version. But anyway, if you want shaku then just let go of forward, wait a few frames, and then input the shaku input. That ought to work.

I'll keep that in mind. Thank you, friend!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Without the command inputs, he has trouble KO'ing people, depending on how light or heavy they are.

 

[PapaJ]

Sorry for this little rant post, but I've found Ryu to be straight up OP from day 1. And I still stand by that. And after playing today, I felt I just had to share my own thoughts on him.

I just ask this: What are his cons? He has a projectile, a good projectile, for spacing and approaching. He is crazy powerful (His Fair does 15 damage, and his Bair does 16! Like.....what?!). He can cover lots of options because of his ability to have 2 different tilts and 2 different jabs. I've seen some people saying his recovery is as bad as Little Mac's.... huh? His Up B is for starters a lot higher than Mac's, even though this one too have very little horizontal movement. Still, he has his Side B, and his Focus Punch that he can cancel and get momentum, plus that his Focus Punch gives him a 1-hit super armor that makes it a bit safer to recover, too. He has a Spike. He has a power-version of each Special, except for his Focus Punch, that don't have any downsides compared to the regular specials. They are just straight up more powerful versions, that's it. And I'm looking at you, Shoryuken. That move.... what were they THINKING? For example, I was playing as Ganondorf against Ryu today, and Ganon is one of the heaviest in the game. His power-Shoryuken killed Ganon at UNDER 90%... WHAT? And the thing is, it doesn't have a lot of cooldown or anything, even though it is punishable, sure. It comes out extremely fast, and he flies upwards very fast, so it's not the easiest move to punish. It even doesn't have more cooldown than his regular Up B, which I find stupid. There's really no reason to use his normal Up B if you know how to use the power version of it. His Side B is excellent for punishing rollers or punishing other moves, like Ganon's Wizard's Kick or missed Flame Choke. His Strong Side Tilt is a very, very good Shield Breaker move. He has very little landing lag on areals.

I mean - What the heck are his cons? He is so good in every way, he can basically do everything. There's nothing he lacks.

Then, I come to my final point that really made me just... depressed. Not mad, didn't rage, I just shut down the game and got sad. I'm talking about his infinite Up Tilt. I was using Ganon, and he isn't the biggest in the game (like DK, Bowser etc), even though he is big. But still, if he just landed 1 weak up tilt, I was doomed. He would drag me across the stage with it, lock me, and I couldn't do ANYTHING. I tried DI-ing, Nair-ing, anything. Nothing worked, because I was still in hitstun when he landed the next one, and he could easily just follow me around the stage, so DI-ing was pretty much useless. As we got to the edge, the damage was racked up, and he could easily jump up and land his meteor Down Air. That's when I quit.

Someone, please explain to me what Ryu's deal is. There's nothing he's NOT good at. He's extremly powerful, both air and ground, has a decent enough recovery to be this good, has a good projectile, has a shield break, a disgusting KO move in form of his power-Shoryuken, his Focus Punch, his Up Tilt Lock that's impossible to escape, lagless areals... yeah. Please explain to me.

*sigh*.

We of the Ryu boards have documented his weaknesses since day 1. I will address each "problem" you have with him as you bring them up.

His projectile isn't as good as you are making it out to be. Damage wise it is decent and the varying speeds can help in screwing your opponents. However, the move isn't active till the 13th frame and you have to wait a minimum of 58 frames. This means one good jump in can lead to an easy smash attack or KO. The priority is also very very low. Overall a good Ryu can use it to pester but it is NOT the best projectile by any means.

For true inputs there was a good post saying that even if Ryus Shoryuken comes out on frame 6 you still need to buffer the input. This can make the move come out frames later which makes a huge difference in the competitive scene. Not to mention you sorta need to do the True inputs if you want any good damage/KB. So the only positive of the B versions of the moves is easier time to execute at the cost of power and KB which is a fair trade. If you can pull off the inputs in a tourney setting while not screwing up then thats your reward if you cant you get weaker versions. Nothing ground breaking here.

His Fair, while doing good damage, has no real KO potential so while we can get damage of it unless we can land our KO moves we're just getting you more rage. His Bair does indeed KO...as does most of the casts. Again Falcons bair is arguably better as it comes out faster and has less ending lag. Combined with Ryus high air friction means his air mobility means he's stuck in his current jump arc barring a Double jump or FADC, means this is avoidable and our path is somewhat predictable. Keep in mind Bair is one of Ryus few reliable Kill options.

I mean...his only real advantage with his tilts is that they combo into each other as well as specials. It gives him a footsies game but the tilts by themselves are meh. It's when combined with specials and other tilts is when it becomes great. On top of this Ryus weak tilts have a very small range. If you are running into these or being frame trapped thats on you as a player to get better not for Nintendo to nerf Ryu.

Ryus Tatsu in the air forces him to spin three times, where as on the ground you have the ability to spin once or thrice. This makes him very similar to DK where he can be hit out of it or spiked due to a lack of a vertical hitbox protecting him. If a Ryu uses this they are probably using it in the safest way such as far from the stage to get them close to a Double Jump SRK. His SRK is nothing special. It's like Marths Up B and Shulks a good Ryu will space out the Up B to reach the ledge during Iframes. That being said if we lose our double jump and we fight a competent opponent we're probably gonna lose the stock. Again this seems more like you being unable to edgeguard then Ryus ability to recover. Also the focus attack puts us in an awkward situation. If the opponent sees us using it they can simply wait for us to dash cancel or use a multihit move. Again it's not infallible. Also Falcon has a spike thats way easier to land...and you're complaining about Ryus? The Spike area is decent but not so large meaning if you're below Ryu and you can anticipate it you're probably not getting spiked unless the Ryu does something you werent planing for. It's a usable spike dont get me wrong but it's nothing worth complaining about.

I addressed the buffered input but I feel I must address SRK and T.SRK. The thing is the move does KO super early and it does have Iframes...but unless we combo it or make a super hard read the move puts in a locked fall state. This means as long as you're smart and stay away from Ryu's weak tilts we need to do a hard read which can lead to US being Ko'd if we screw it up since you're free to charge up your attack as we fall down. Again we cannot fast fall nor change direction until we start blinking and from ground level that doesn't happen. So yes the move is EASILY punishable. if Ryu is doing the light version however the tradeoff is alot less KB but still on shield or whiff it's punishable.

Don't roll like an idiot...Falcons Side-B can do the same and has more reliable KO power. If you're doing something predictable and someone is using the appropriate move to punish that's on you to get better. Tatsu is weirder to punish but still possible. The hitbox is active on the 10th frame and Ryu is forced into the move for either 64 frames (light tatsu) or 96 frames (medium and heavy). That's alot of time to punish.

His Aerials are above average in terms in Landing lag but again I refer you to his high friction which can telegraph what moves Ryu will do.

His Utilt is not an infinite. There is a video on Youtube called "DI and Smash DI (Smash Wii U/3ds) by "My Smash Corner" Look at that video and learn to SDI. Ryu can normally get 2-3 reps and often they finish with T.SRK for Damage and KB or Strong Utilt for Damage. People I have fought have escaped it by SDI and how KB works in smash 4.

Again this seems like it's just you not knowing the MU and possibly being...well...bad at the game. All these issues seem to be yours exclusively. I have no seen anyone complain about his aerials , his recovery or even his Hado.

Finally I must impress to you the cons of being Ryu.
-Low air friction which makes jump ins very telegraphed as we cannot fade in and out and FADC only solves the issue a bit.
-Ryu has ~3 reliable kill moves. These are Fsmash, SRK, and Bair. When I mean reliable i mean at around 120 percent these moves will always KO if landed. The reason why I say ~3 is that Usmash and Strong Jab can KO based on stage and MU but im talking about kill moves that I can go to and not circumstantial.
-Cannot hit behind him. If you roll behind Ryu we cannot use a move that overs both our front and behind like Falcon or Ganons Dsmash this means we need to be careful of our spacing to make sure they cannot roll behind us and punish
-No real kill throw or combo throw. After about 30-40 percent Ryu loses his Dthrow to Fair combo. After that throws only serve to bypass shields and rack up damage. This means that if the opponent knows this they can shield more often and survive longer. Strong Ftilt is decent at shield breaking but not the best. This also ties into his ~3 kill options meaning if you know wahat you are doing you can survive till 150+ which helps you as you can use that rage and get the comeback.
-Ryus walk speed is 53rd meaning walking as an approach isn't viable meaning we're not able to walk into Fsmash as well as say Marth or Luigi. This forces us to run around reducing our options further.

Edit: I would also like to avoid placing the 1.08 DLC chars on tier lists because...well we couldn't use them at EVO and that means alot of possible data is gone. We need more tourney information to accuratey place them in tiers. Lets try to avoid saying if they are "X" Tier till later ok?

 

[WwwWario]

*sigh*.

We of the Ryu boards have documented his weaknesses since day 1. I will address each "problem" you have with him as you bring them up.

His projectile isn't as good as you are making it out to be. Damage wise it is decent and the varying speeds can help in screwing your opponents. However, the move isn't active till the 13th frame and you have to wait a minimum of 58 frames. This means one good jump in can lead to an easy smash attack or KO. The priority is also very very low. Overall a good Ryu can use it to pester but it is NOT the best projectile by any means.

For true inputs there was a good post saying that even if Ryus Shoryuken comes out on frame 6 you still need to buffer the input. This can make the move come out frames later which makes a huge difference in the competitive scene. Not to mention you sorta need to do the True inputs if you want any good damage/KB. So the only positive of the B versions of the moves is easier time to execute at the cost of power and KB which is a fair trade. If you can pull off the inputs in a tourney setting while not screwing up then thats your reward if you cant you get weaker versions. Nothing ground breaking here.

His Fair, while doing good damage, has no real KO potential so while we can get damage of it unless we can land our KO moves we're just getting you more rage. His Bair does indeed KO...as does most of the casts. Again Falcons bair is arguably better as it comes out faster and has less ending lag. Combined with Ryus high air friction means his air mobility means he's stuck in his current jump arc barring a Double jump or FADC, means this is avoidable and our path is somewhat predictable. Keep in mind Bair is one of Ryus few reliable Kill options.

I mean...his only real advantage with his tilts is that they combo into each other as well as specials. It gives him a footsies game but the tilts by themselves are meh. It's when combined with specials and other tilts is when it becomes great. On top of this Ryus weak tilts have a very small range. If you are running into these or being frame trapped thats on you as a player to get better not for Nintendo to nerf Ryu.

Ryus Tatsu in the air forces him to spin three times, where as on the ground you have the ability to spin once or thrice. This makes him very similar to DK where he can be hit out of it or spiked due to a lack of a vertical hitbox protecting him. If a Ryu uses this they are probably using it in the safest way such as far from the stage to get them close to a Double Jump SRK. His SRK is nothing special. It's like Marths Up B and Shulks a good Ryu will space out the Up B to reach the ledge during Iframes. That being said if we lose our double jump and we fight a competent opponent we're probably gonna lose the stock. Again this seems more like you being unable to edgeguard then Ryus ability to recover. Also the focus attack puts us in an awkward situation. If the opponent sees us using it they can simply wait for us to dash cancel or use a multihit move. Again it's not infallible. Also Falcon has a spike thats way easier to land...and you're complaining about Ryus? The Spike area is decent but not so large meaning if you're below Ryu and you can anticipate it you're probably not getting spiked unless the Ryu does something you werent planing for. It's a usable spike dont get me wrong but it's nothing worth complaining about.

I addressed the buffered input but I feel I must address SRK and T.SRK. The thing is the move does KO super early and it does have Iframes...but unless we combo it or make a super hard read the move puts in a locked fall state. This means as long as you're smart and stay away from Ryu's weak tilts we need to do a hard read which can lead to US being Ko'd if we screw it up since you're free to charge up your attack as we fall down. Again we cannot fast fall nor change direction until we start blinking and from ground level that doesn't happen. So yes the move is EASILY punishable. if Ryu is doing the light version however the tradeoff is alot less KB but still on shield or whiff it's punishable.

Don't roll like an idiot...Falcons Side-B can do the same and has more reliable KO power. If you're doing something predictable and someone is using the appropriate move to punish that's on you to get better. Tatsu is weirder to punish but still possible. The hitbox is active on the 10th frame and Ryu is forced into the move for either 64 frames (light tatsu) or 96 frames (medium and heavy). That's alot of time to punish.

His Aerials are above average in terms in Landing lag but again I refer you to his high friction which can telegraph what moves Ryu will do.

His Utilt is not an infinite. There is a video on Youtube called "DI and Smash DI (Smash Wii U/3ds) by "My Smash Corner" Look at that video and learn to SDI. Ryu can normally get 2-3 reps and often they finish with T.SRK for Damage and KB or Strong Utilt for Damage. People I have fought have escaped it by SDI and how KB works in smash 4.

Again this seems like it's just you not knowing the MU and possibly being...well...bad at the game. All these issues seem to be yours exclusively. I have no seen anyone complain about his aerials , his recovery or even his Hado.

Finally I must impress to you the cons of being Ryu.
-Low air friction which makes jump ins very telegraphed as we cannot fade in and out and FADC only solves the issue a bit.
-Ryu has ~3 reliable kill moves. These are Fsmash, SRK, and Bair. When I mean reliable i mean at around 120 percent these moves will always KO if landed. The reason why I say ~3 is that Usmash and Strong Jab can KO based on stage and MU but im talking about kill moves that I can go to and not circumstantial.
-Cannot hit behind him. If you roll behind Ryu we cannot use a move that overs both our front and behind like Falcon or Ganons Dsmash this means we need to be careful of our spacing to make sure they cannot roll behind us and punish
-No real kill throw or combo throw. After about 30-40 percent Ryu loses his Dthrow to Fair combo. After that throws only serve to bypass shields and rack up damage. This means that if the opponent knows this they can shield more often and survive longer. Strong Ftilt is decent at shield breaking but not the best. This also ties into his ~3 kill options meaning if you know wahat you are doing you can survive till 150+ which helps you as you can use that rage and get the comeback.
-Ryus walk speed is 53rd meaning walking as an approach isn't viable meaning we're not able to walk into Fsmash as well as say Marth or Luigi. This forces us to run around reducing our options further.

Edit: I would also like to avoid placing the 1.08 DLC chars on tier lists because...well we couldn't use them at EVO and that means alot of possible data is gone. We need more tourney information to accuratey place them in tiers. Lets try to avoid saying if they are "X" Tier till later ok?

Thanks for explaining. You brought up good points Though, I never complained about his Spike and said it was super-good, I just meant that he had another advantage by having one... and I don't roll "like an idiot". I know rolling is easily punishable. I just said that, rolling might come out now and then, and even when you don't roll, it's a good punish nonetheless.

I still feel his strong Shoryuken is a bit over the top. I mean, you said that the balance between normal Specials and the input Specials is that it's easier to throw out a normal one. However, I feel that, once you master Ryu, a strong Shoryuken will come out automatically. It won't be super-hard - it will be natural to input it. And I feel the strong Shoryuken isn't punishable enough for being THAT strong. Many smash attacks are just as punished (or, at leaset easily punishable) because of ending lag and more startup. The strong Shoryuken comes out VERY quickly, and almost killed Ganondorf at around 80%. You have to approach Ryu eventually, and if he catches you in a tilt lock, a strong Shoryuken is easy to land, even before you can Smash DI out of the lock. Since it comes out that fast, you can never be safe as long as you're close to Ryu. And yes, I know about Smash DI, and I tried it against him, but I couldn't escape. Maybe it was just me who did it wrong, but still.

His Focus Punch - sure, you can read it in the air and hit with a multihit move, but not many areals are multihit moves. If he had used the Focus Punch or not, he would still be predictable as he approaches the stage. The Punch just makes it a bit safer for him.

And yes, he doesn't have lots of Kill options, but he can for sure rack up damage very, very fast, and I've been KO'd by his Fair many times. At least Falcon has some landing lag on at least 2 of his areals. I know we shouldn't compare those, since they're very different, but still.

I woulnd't say I'm bad at the game. I'm not saying I'm pro, not by any means. But I know a bit I got to the finals in a online tourney for the whole country of Norway, but yeah. I understand what you mean, and you bring up very good points, but to me, Ryu has more advantages than he should. And because of his stong areals and little landing lag, approaching him is difficult. And if you do approach him, he has many tools to use, and always makes me fear the Shoryuken to kill me surprisingly early.

 

[Emblem Lord]

@ PapaJ

No disrespect but about half of what you said becomes a non-issue once you hit a certain skill level or after just doing alot of lab work with Ryu.

I mean lacking kill options means nothing when he has the best kill move in the game.

 

[PapaJ]

@ PapaJ

No disrespect but about half of what you said becomes a non-issue once you hit a certain skill level or after just doing alot of lab work with Ryu.

I mean lacking kill options means nothing when he has the best kill move in the game.

Yeah but what i getting at is the issues the OP is facing seems to be purely his own skill, and possibly MU, im talking about issues a decent Ryu has such as FG players. I Understand where you're coming from though. I just dont think he is fighting tourney level Ryus based on how he describes how "broken" he is

Thanks for explaining. You brought up good points Though, I never complained about his Spike and said it was super-good, I just meant that he had another advantage by having one... and I don't roll "like an idiot". I know rolling is easily punishable. I just said that, rolling might come out now and then, and even when you don't roll, it's a good punish nonetheless.

I still feel his strong Shoryuken is a bit over the top. I mean, you said that the balance between normal Specials and the input Specials is that it's easier to throw out a normal one. However, I feel that, once you master Ryu, a strong Shoryuken will come out automatically. It won't be super-hard - it will be natural to input it. And I feel the strong Shoryuken isn't punishable enough for being THAT strong. Many smash attacks are just as punished (or, at leaset easily punishable) because of ending lag and more startup. The strong Shoryuken comes out VERY quickly, and almost killed Ganondorf at around 80%. You have to approach Ryu eventually, and if he catches you in a tilt lock, a strong Shoryuken is easy to land, even before you can Smash DI out of the lock. Since it comes out that fast, you can never be safe as long as you're close to Ryu. And yes, I know about Smash DI, and I tried it against him, but I couldn't escape. Maybe it was just me who did it wrong, but still.

His Focus Punch - sure, you can read it in the air and hit with a multihit move, but not many areals are multihit moves. If he had used the Focus Punch or not, he would still be predictable as he approaches the stage. The Punch just makes it a bit safer for him.

And yes, he doesn't have lots of Kill options, but he can for sure rack up damage very, very fast, and I've been KO'd by his Fair many times. At least Falcon has some landing lag on at least 2 of his areals. I know we shouldn't compare those, since they're very different, but still.

I woulnd't say I'm bad at the game. I'm not saying I'm pro, not by any means. But I know a bit I got to the finals in a online tourney for the whole country of Norway, but yeah. I understand what you mean, and you bring up very good points, but to me, Ryu has more advantages than he should. And because of his stong areals and little landing lag, approaching him is difficult. And if you do approach him, he has many tools to use, and always makes me fear the Shoryuken to kill me surprisingly early.

Honestly, I would like to apologize for coming off as rude in my original post that was me day 1 after dealing with some personal crap and it kinda leaked out lol. The best way to see the weaknesses in characters is by using them. So something you can do is take Ryu to the lab and experiment and take him online and see how other players react and try to overcome Ryu. From there you should start to see a pattern on what you should and should not avoid. An example of this is attacking a ryu on shield as his Utilt comes out fast enough and as I previously said it can lead into SRK.

But yeah if you ever have any trouble with a character you should always try to use them in matches to understand the basics of their moves and what that player will be looking for. Doing this will help you so much when fighting characters VS going in without much of an idea. An Example is I fought a zelda on FG and got my ass handed to me cause I didn't know what to do in the MU and I didnt know what Zelda wanted to set up with. After labbing with her for a bit I found out everything I needed to know and applied that to the Ryu MU and it helped immensely

Something you could also do is look up videos of tourneys featuring Ryu and see how they play. IIRC @ Emblem Lord had a very good GF in a tourney you could watch.

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

In my opinion, Ryu is greatly enjoyable to fight with and against.

With, because...: hit sounds (gotta love those SFII sounds I love you Sakurai for putting those), high combo capability, you can Show your Moves like a baws, dat sexy down b cancel...

Against because: he's heavy and kind of tall=easy to combo, builds your rage easy, has trouble killing, short range attacks (mostly).

To me, Ryu is like (pls don't kill me) a variation of Little Mac. You can do your stuff and rekt the competition, but to really shine against the top tiers, you need to play PERFECTLY, knowing your character weaknesses and advantages to cover the weaknesses. Ryu got resources to do that, but the skill that is needed only comes with training (just like Ryu himself).

Overall, Ryu is really awesome and really enjoyable to watch. I hope some top tier player gives him a chance, because I really want to see him in the competitive play.

 

[Dsull]

Hes strong but i wouldnt say hes broken.

His recovery is crazy predictable and easy to edgeguard. Distance coverage he has great recovery, but aside from being above him when he wants to True Shoryu you can usually completely gimp him. Ive been gimped by a simple projectile on MAAAANY occasions for instance. His recovery is either go below and shoryu up or tatsu onto the stage/ledge....both are easy to spot and the latter is basically free-kill easy to counter.

Characters that dont use multihits are food for him. Like stated earlier, he devours Gannon, CFalcon, and Ike because they rely on one-hit-wonder attacks (CFalcon's speed can sorta combat this but not to the point to keep him off that list).

Also his projectile isnt a "good" projectile. Its just one that works, but against literally anyone with their own projectile or a very fast jab its pretty useless in most situations. It doesnt beat ANYTHING, as even Lemons will cancel it out.

I'd say hes top 5 right now. I still detest facing Shieks a lot more than Ryus though, since unlike Shiek Ryu doesnt have insane security in his approach/bait so he can be countered much easier and his rolls are terrible.

 

[WwwWario]

Hes strong but i wouldnt say hes broken.

His recovery is crazy predictable and easy to edgeguard. Distance coverage he has great recovery, but aside from being above him when he wants to True Shoryu you can usually completely gimp him. Ive been gimped by a simple projectile on MAAAANY occasions for instance. His recovery is either go below and shoryu up or tatsu onto the stage/ledge....both are easy to spot and the latter is basically free-kill easy to counter.

Characters that dont use multihits are food for him. Like stated earlier, he devours Gannon, CFalcon, and Ike because they rely on one-hit-wonder attacks (CFalcon's speed can sorta combat this but not to the point to keep him off that list).

Also his projectile isnt a "good" projectile. Its just one that works, but against literally anyone with their own projectile or a very fast jab its pretty useless in most situations. It doesnt beat ANYTHING, as even Lemons will cancel it out.

I'd say hes top 5 right now. I still detest facing Shieks a lot more than Ryus though, since unlike Shiek Ryu doesnt have insane security in his approach/bait so he can be countered much easier and his rolls are terrible.

Good points. His recovery is predictable, yes, and his projectile isn't the best in the game. However, I still think he's a bit too good (again, I might be completely wrong). I feel he has approach options with his lagless Fair that does 15 damage sweetspotted. That's insane. Also, his Fire Hadoken (Can't remember its name) is also good, as it kind of traps the opponent, allowing you to approach. And again, I still think his strong Shoryuken is a bit too strong for that speed and that cooldown. Several Smash Attacks are more easily punished than this move, and this is more dangerous and comes out faster than so many of them. Ryu is a very fun character and I really enjoy playing him. I personally just think he's a bit too good for his own good.

 

[meleebrawler]

Good points. His recovery is predictable, yes, and his projectile isn't the best in the game. However, I still think he's a bit too good (again, I might be completely wrong). I feel he has approach options with his lagless Fair that does 15 damage sweetspotted. That's insane. Also, his Fire Hadoken (Can't remember its name) is also good, as it kind of traps the opponent, allowing you to approach. And again, I still think his strong Shoryuken is a bit too strong for that speed and that cooldown. Several Smash Attacks are more easily punished than this move, and this is more dangerous and comes out faster than so many of them. Ryu is a very fun character and I really enjoy playing him. I personally just think he's a bit too good for his own good.

His terrible air deceleration make almost any aerial approach from him super risky, with this in mind you can usually tell what Ryu is going to do when he jumps. Shakunetsu Hadouken is more powerful on offence but is even easier to beat out than the normal. And Shoryuken has a pretty small hitbox for the strong hit.

 

[Jmanthesmasher683]

Someone probably has said this but, he can't freaking kill. his only good kill move is his upgraded shoryuken and it's easily punishable. Thats probably his worst flaw since kills are harder to do with him compared to any other character.
I find him still very fun to use in battle since he does do a lot of damage for each hit. An abnormal amount, honestly. I can see why you'd think he's OP- He has a lot of options. But options don't matter when you have a crap recovery and a terribly hard to hit with killing move. I do think he is balanced. especially for a dlc character who's has much less thought put into him. well thats just what i think, anyway.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Someone probably has said this but, he can't freaking kill. his only good kill move is his upgraded shoryuken and it's easily punishable. Thats probably his worst flaw since kills are harder to do with him compared to any other character.
I find him still very fun to use in battle since he does do a lot of damage for each hit. An abnormal amount, honestly. I can see why you'd think he's OP- He has a lot of options. But options don't matter when you have a crap recovery and a terribly hard to hit with killing move. I do think he is balanced. especially for a dlc character who's has much less thought put into him. well thats just what i think, anyway.

If you can't KOuntil over 200%, you know you have problems KO'ing someone.

 

[Jmanthesmasher683]

If you can't KOuntil over 200%, you know you have problems KO'ing someone.

yeah exactly. that yellow haired 10 year old has the strongest up smash in the game. I love playing lucas as well as ryu. Both have strong spots and i'm happy every fighter feels different.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

yeah exactly. that yellow haired 10 year old has the strongest up smash in the game. I love playing lucas as well as ryu. Both have strong spots and i'm happy every fighter feels different.

...except Dark Pit, but he's still cool to

 

[Emblem Lord]

Someone probably has said this but, he can't freaking kill. his only good kill move is his upgraded shoryuken and it's easily punishable. Thats probably his worst flaw since kills are harder to do with him compared to any other character.
I find him still very fun to use in battle since he does do a lot of damage for each hit. An abnormal amount, honestly. I can see why you'd think he's OP- He has a lot of options. But options don't matter when you have a crap recovery and a terribly hard to hit with killing move. I do think he is balanced. especially for a dlc character who's has much less thought put into him. well thats just what i think, anyway.

lolwut

No, seriously this part confuses me

 

[Jmanthesmasher683]

lolwut

No, seriously this part confuses me

well, ryu doesn't have any reliable kill moves. he has a harder time KOing than, for example, little mac, who has much faster and stronger attacks. that's what i meant.

 

[Emblem Lord]

So....hit confirmation is a thing.

Ryu has no problems killing. I have killed Dabuz, Salem, False, Max Ketchum and other strong players around 80% consistently.

It takes skill for sure. Ryu has no free safe on block kill moves. But he has plenty of true kill combos and kill confirms.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-sakiyo-dojo-ryu-metagame-discussion.406104/page-9#post-19937339

 

[Jmanthesmasher683]

So....hit confirmation is a thing.

Ryu has no problems killing. I have killed Dabuz, Salem, False, Max Ketchum and other strong players around 80% consistently.

It takes skill for sure. Ryu has no free safe on block kill moves. But he has plenty of true kill combos and kill confirms.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-sakiyo-dojo-ryu-metagame-discussion.406104/page-9#post-19937339

yeah it takes more skill to get a kill in- but i... don't have that skill. Honestly i'm more of an intermediate.

 

[Saltyman]

I thought Ryu was broken at the start as well, honestly it was all to do with my playstyle.

Ryu is pretty hopeless at mid-range as long as you don't leave yourself open to attack. Almost every projectile or anti-projectile move deals with hadouken effectively. All of his long reaching, high-priority moves are easy to avoid and punishable. Being forced to run or jump around to move is easily exploitable by anyone with fast walking speed.

Even swords will fail to beat a lot of his moves. Challenging his priority or attacks directly is not the way to go about this fight, just get your hits in and constantly stay out of his combo range.. Ryu will almost always win if you trade hits, and he can trade hits with almost everything. Even with Ganon or Charizard.. Having a quick counter and good reflexes also shuts down a lot of Ryu's options but excessive shielding is a bad idea as many of his moves will push you out of grab range, trap you in shield stun, or simply break your shield.

 

[meleebrawler]

I thought Ryu was broken at the start as well, honestly it was all to do with my playstyle.

Ryu is pretty hopeless at mid-range as long as you don't leave yourself open to attack. Almost every projectile or anti-projectile move deals with hadouken effectively. All of his long reaching, high-priority moves are easy to avoid and punishable. Being forced to run or jump around to move is easily exploitable by anyone with fast walking speed.

Even swords will fail to beat a lot of his moves. Challenging his priority or attacks directly is not the way to go about this fight, just get your hits in and constantly stay out of his combo range.. Ryu will almost always win if you trade hits, and he can trade hits with almost everything. Even with Ganon or Charizard.. Having a quick counter and good reflexes also shuts down a lot of Ryu's options but excessive shielding is a bad idea as many of his moves will push you out of grab range, trap you in shield stun, or simply break your shield.

Powershielding, though, is a great way to beat him if you can master it.

 

[Saltyman]

Powershielding, though, is a great way to beat him if you can master it.

Yeah it's really necessary for landing those shield grabs. He does have some awkward movements and attributes though.. Ryu actually has reduced fast falling speed. Something I was not aware of before.. He also turns around slower on the ground and in the air compared to other characters, his weaknesses aren't really in his moveset more in his actual movements

 

[kendikong]

Against most of the cast, Ryu is top tier level, but he is terrible against fast, zoning characters. Ryus attacks are mostly short range and his chase game is kind of bad. Against those kinds of characters, he has trouble getting kills. Theres no way he can get close enough to land an utilt or dtilt, or focus attack. Fsmash comes out slow and is easily predicted. Most of the time, you end up having to chip until 150 percent and then finishing them off with bair, uair, or heavy jab.

 

[Saltyman]

Against most of the cast, Ryu is top tier level, but he is terrible against fast, zoning characters. Ryus attacks are mostly short range and his chase game is kind of bad. Against those kinds of characters, he has trouble getting kills. Theres no way he can get close enough to land an utilt or dtilt, or focus attack. Fsmash comes out slow and is easily predicted. Most of the time, you end up having to chip until 150 percent and then finishing them off with bair, uair, or heavy jab.

33xx Mii Gunner is the answer. Agree that Ryu is bad against projectile spam and zoning. He has problems stopping and keeping up with characters and Hadouken is bad against other projectiles, even Bowser Jr. can just chip away at him and force him into bad positions. He's also particularly bad at item control because of his poor control and acceleration. He just doesn't seem to have any way to get around things like R.O.B.'s gyro

Ryu is essentially the opposite of Link. Fast but awful acceleration and speed control. Reduced fast falling speed, a slow walk, and a fast but slow to stop dash. That's really his major weakness..