What in God's name will they do with all the 3rd Parties??

[DarkKry4]

Nothing controversial about the truth.


And yet Bayonetta does? lmao

who?

 

[PsychoJosh]

Honestly, I think it's quite likely that all the third party characters in Smash 4 will come back, alongside new ones. We may even see the first western 3rd party character in Smash.

This makes every Smash game all the more special. Not only are the third party characters not leaving but even more are coming. The people who are against third parties in Smash are being willfully ignorant and shortsighted because there are no real downsides to having third parties in Smash. Each third party represents a sales goldmine, an exciting expansion of the roster, and keeps things fresh and unpredictable. It also guarantees that Smash could potentially never run out of newcomers and makes every Smash game a prestigious and wonderful celebration of games.

 

[Zyfoe]

(in god's name)

 

[AncientArk]

Sonic, Pac-man and Megaman, I think are the safest bet for returning.
Ryu and Bayonetta I think are also both likely to return

Cloud I think will end up being a one time thing, no real reason, I think it's just gonna be Snake situation.
We had him one time, was really cool and fun.
We'll have to long for them to return, we'll stand on that cliff, looking out to sea
waiting for them to return one day. They'll never show up, we know that in our hearts, but we're prepared to wait.


Kinda feel like, Sonic more than anyone, will be the one recurring 3rd party guy if Smash Bros were to go on for the rest of eternity.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Here's the chances are of who I think is coming back.

Bayonetta = 100%, she was not only the winner of the ballot, but also Nintendo is publishing Bayonetta 3 and just ported the first two games to the Switch. Hell that is point she is basically a second party character.

Sonic = 100%, even if you hate the franchise like I do, it would be shocking if he doesn't come back since the series still has a huge fan base, he is an gaming icon and of course the old Sega rivalry with Nintendo back in the 90's.

Mega Man = 100%, same thing with Sonic, he's a gaming icon and both legacy collections are to Switch soon along with the entry X series and Mega Man 11, plus his series started on Nintendo consoles.

Pac-Man = 100%, same as the two above for the most part

Ryu = 50%, Could honestly go either way. Capcom did have a rocky start with the Switch support and SF5 and MvCI aren't on the Switch, but we are getting the anniversary collection and Capcom has a better job at supporting the Switch these past few months

Cloud = 50%, Square Enix and Nintendo have a better relationship then they did when FFVII first released and Square is argubly the biggest third party supporter of the switch, but it looks like the FFVII remake aint coming to the Switch since at this rate it will likely be a PS5 game, at the same though Cloud was a big deal when he was first reveal, huge argubly the biggest oh ****ing **** reveal of Smash 4.

Snake = 0%, Konami loves doing the exact opposite of what fans of MGS like myself want, so I don't expect him to be back in the slightest.

 

[Jamisinon]

As far as Sega, Sonic is very very likely safe. Another Sonic character (or skins) wouldn't surprise me.
The love of MegaMan and the benefit of having him in smash with MM11 coming out makes me believe Capcom characters will be safe. Although yes, Ryu is in Street Fighter I still think Ryu in smash benefits street fighter as it garners some interest and since smash is so unique the only games smash games really compete with is other smash games. So I don't think there's any threat of Street Fighter characters in smash hurting Street Fighter sales or anything like that.
There's not much reason for Pac-Man not to return as well unless it's a creator's choice in that he isn't popular enough.
As has already been pointed out Cloud is a much bigger question mark, mostly bc of Square. While I personally believe Square has nothing to lose from putting Cloud in a fighting game (unless there's some new Dissidia game they are paranoid about) signs such as limited FF music in Sm4sh and no remixes means Cloud could very well be the next Snake. The one and done, never to return.
I would also like to say I believe the safety of characters returning is linked to whether it's Sm4.5h or Sma5h. If Sm4sh gets the Mario Kart Deluxe treatment I would fully expect every character to return (with maybe the exception of Cloud). I think if it turns out to be an entirely new game then the 3rd party characters are at much higher risk of not returning.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's the chances are of who I think is coming back.

Bayonetta = 100%, she was not only the winner of the ballot, but also Nintendo is publishing Bayonetta 3 and just ported the first two games to the Switch. Hell that is point she is basically a second party character.

Sonic = 100%, even if you hate the franchise like I do, it would be shocking if he doesn't come back since the series still has a huge fan base, he is an gaming icon and of course the old Sega rivalry with Nintendo back in the 90's.

Mega Man = 100%, same thing with Sonic, he's a gaming icon and both legacy collections are to Switch soon along with the entry X series and Mega Man 11, plus his series started on Nintendo consoles.

Pac-Man = 100%, same as the two above for the most part

Ryu = 50%, Could honestly go either way. Capcom did have a rocky start with the Switch support and SF5 and MvCI aren't on the Switch, but we are getting the anniversary collection and Capcom has a better job at supporting the Switch these past few months

Cloud = 50%, Square Enix and Nintendo have a better relationship then they did when FFVII first released and Square is argubly the biggest third party supporter of the switch, but it looks like the FFVII remake aint coming to the Switch since at this rate it will likely be a PS5 game, at the same though Cloud was a big deal when he was first reveal, huge argubly the biggest oh ****ing **** reveal of Smash 4.

Snake = 0%, Konami loves doing the exact opposite of what fans of MGS like myself want, so I don't expect him to be back in the slightest.

I'd agree with most but I'd change Snake to 1%.

Konami isn't in full "burn Kojima and everything he's accomplished" mode and may take the chance for free money. That's how Bomberman R happened, I think

 

[C3CC]

I don't know much about possibilities, but I know what I HOPE. I hope Ryu and Cloud don't make it back; I never agreed with their inclusion in the first place. Bayonetta's addition I don't like either, but since she's a Nintendo exclusive now and a Sega character, she's very likely to return. Same for Sonic.

I don't mind PAC-MAN and Mega Man returning or staying. I just don't care.

 

[ErenJager]

I wouldn't care if they cut all of them, Nintendo bringing everything back in house would be okay.
I hate when they make cuts, so if a few don't return, may as well cut them all. (horrible logic)

That being said, I wouldn't mind Megaman, pacman, and sonic being the only returns.... with Bomberman and Geno repping Konami and Square xD... one for each major japanese gaming company... make it nice and even...

 

[DGAMER]

Sonic is 100% returning due to him being the only veteran Third Party in SSB4.

I also expect Bayo to return due to Bayo 3, and Nintendo's interest in the franchise.

Megaman can easily return, as can Pacman, though it depends if the company would want to have them again. (they probably will thou.)

I'm not so sure about Cloud, or Ryu. Ryu has slightly better chances than Cloud, and can probably make it in if Capcom wants to bring him back, but Cloud is probably going to get cut. (Square Enix probably will begin preparations for FFVII Remake Marketing, and I'm pretty sure PS will veto the character.)

Stop asking for Snake, he probably won't come back.

As for new 3rd parties, I believe Ubisoft will be the ones to throw their hat in the ring. (Has incredible relationship with Nintendo/can be first third party outside of Japan) IF this is the case and Ubisoft does throw their hat in the ring, it's either Rabbids or Rayman. I can't see the Rabbids in smash yet, but I definitely can see Rayman. So that is my pick for Third Party.

 

[Deleted member]

m not so sure about Cloud, or Ryu. Ryu has slightly better chances than Cloud, and can probably make it in if Capcom wants to bring him back, but Cloud is probably going to get cut. (Square Enix probably will begin preparations for FFVII Remake Marketing, and I'm pretty sure PS will veto the character.)

What's a better Advertisement then having a character in smash?

 

[DGAMER]

Playstation has FFVII remake exclusivity. No way they would tell square to put a character in a competing console to promote another game on their console. Makes no sense from a business stand point imo.

 

[ErenJager]

Playstation has FFVII remake exclusivity. No way they would tell square to put a character in a competing console to promote another game on their console. Makes no sense from a business stand point imo.

It made no sense to begin with... yet there he was amiibo's and all.

 

[Elec]

sonic megaman pacman are basically guaranteed in the game due to how requested they are, with bayo having a high chance too cause it became exclusive to nintendo, and ryu, even tho he does feel out of place a bit, is another capcom rep so he could still be in. snake could come back but with whats been going on with kojima and konami im not too sure, i feel like sakurai would have to bribe konami to add snake in. cloud is also pretty interesting, ff7 never appeared on nintendo consoles, nor has the mainline ff games past 6, and along with the lack of songs appearing in smash 4 (they only use two tracks ripped straight from ff7 in this game, from a series literally known for its amazing soundtrack), though you can never be too sure with sakurai, so id say higher chance than snake but lower than ryu.

now those are the third party characters that have been in smash so far (which is pretty expansive ngl), and with a new smash game nowadays only means more third parties. there will probably only be two third parties chosen for the game as brawl had snake and sonic, and pre dlc sm4sh had megaman and pacman, so let me discuss the two characters i think will get in this time.
lets start off with rayman, who i think is the most likely choice as a third party. ubisoft has always made games for nintendo platforms, however with the switch's success, they decided to pair up with nintendo and create a mario+rabbids game. this means that the two companies share a bond and i think makes rayman a likely third party candidate. then theres my second choice, being crash. gonna be honest, i didnt think of crash as a choice for smash until recently, when the wombat has been getting a lot of spotlight recently, especially with the n sane trilogy, thats confirmed to be ported to switch. the port only makes it logical for sakurai to add crash in to promote the release of n sane trilogy, and could replace cloud as a sony "mascot" if he doesnt make it in.

 

[magiciandude]

and are owned by Sega who always seems to have a great relationship with Nintendo since they became third party. Both of the recent Sonic games came out for the Switch while Bayoneta 1 + 2 was released for the NS while Bayonetta 3 is being released for the NS exclusively. Plus Bayonetta won the Smash Ballot.

& : The former has a new game coming out for the Switch along with a compilation of MM games coming for the NS as well. The latter appeared in Ultra SF II which I heard sold really well on the NS and there's an upcoming SF collection coming out for the NS as well. Plus Capcom is still promoting SF 5.

: There's a Pac-Man championship game coming out for the Switch and he is Miyamoto's favorite character and was requested to appear in Brawl by Miyamoto. I don't know if Namco being the developer for Smash 5 or not will affect his chances, but I can't say for sure.

: Many like to claim that he's the Snake of SSB4, but the circumstances couldn't be any more different for the two characters. For one, Cloud got in because Sakurai got a lot of requests to include a FF character and Cloud was the most requested one from the series. He wasn't personally requested by an acquaintance like Snake was. Now one thing I do agree with what could hinder his chances is how stingy Square can be. On the other hand, the FFVII remake is still being developed and they are okay with Noctis being the new Tekken game. Plus we have Octopath Traveler being developed for the Switch by Square Enix. I guess it ultimately depends on if Square was satisfied with how Cloud performed in Smash 4. EDIT: Apparently, all Sakurai had to was discuss Nomura about the possibility of Cloud being in Smash 4 and Nomura gave the green light. Source

: Woo boy, possibly the most controversial 3rd party character. As most may know, there was bad blood between Kojima and Konami during Smash 4's development. Now while Kojima stated he didn't find it likely Snake would be in Smash 4, he also hoped Sakurai would include Snake anyway. With the two being best buddies, it would seem logical to put Snake back especially after how well-received he was in Brawl. Yet for reasons we may never know, it didn't happen. I speculate that Konami was being a total ass to the point they wouldn't even give Kojima the satisfaction of putting Snake back in Smash 4. After all, they didn't let him accept his award at the 2015 Game Awards without being sued. Konami's business model at the time was pure **** and they only seemed to care about pachinko machines more than quality games. Lately though, Konami seems to be slowly turning that bad reputation around. Bomberman R was released for the Switch with somewhat positive reviews and has been getting free DLC content since its release. Hopefully Nintendo and Konami can work things out to bring back Snake and maybe another Konami character. *fingers crossed*

Playstation has FFVII remake exclusivity. No way they would tell square to put a character in a competing console to promote another game on their console. Makes no sense from a business stand point imo.

That's why Snake was excluded in Brawl right? Because MGS4 was PS3 exclusive?

 

[SmashChu]

First, to address OP's question, Nintendo would have to renew ALL the rights to this title. Anything they did for Smash 4 would not carry to here and those companies would be paid again.

On the topic of third parties in general, consider this. When Brawl got it's first real trailer, Snake was shown at the end. For Smash 4, Megaman got a trailer right after the main trailer. Here, we just get Inklings with no third party character. Could be nothing, but something to at least keep in mind.

 

[Morbi]

First, to address OP's question, Nintendo would have to renew ALL the rights to this title. Anything they did for Smash 4 would not carry to here and those companies would be paid again.

On the topic of third parties in general, consider this. When Brawl got it's first real trailer, Snake was shown at the end. For Smash 4, Megaman got a trailer right after the main trailer. Here, we just get Inklings with no third party character. Could be nothing, but something to at least keep in mind.

I imagine the third party stuff is more or less going to be kept to e3. If there is no 3rd party by then, the dynamic definitely changes. But as of right now, technically we have not even seen Mario and Link. So... Yeah.

 

[R3D3MON]

Bayonetta returning would be great, preferably not as DLC and without nerfs.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'm not so sure about Cloud, or Ryu. Ryu has slightly better chances than Cloud, and can probably make it in if Capcom wants to bring him back, but Cloud is probably going to get cut. (Square Enix probably will begin preparations for FFVII Remake Marketing, and I'm pretty sure PS will veto the character.)

Stop asking for Snake, he probably won't come back.

1. Playstation does not own Cloud Strife. Square Enix does, and thus it is 100% their choice on whether or not he gets allowed to return, exclusivity rights to FFVII Remake be damned. It's not the same game and thus has no effect on his chances.

2. People can hope that Snake comes back. It's their right to do so. He's a veteran, and a hugely popular one at that. Let them hope.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I cannot think of a single reason that a company would have been okay with their character on the Wii U (which was at, I'll estimate, 10m units sold) and not okay with them on the Switch, the gaming revolution.

Also, and this is a footnote... is it just me, or was the majority of this thread redundant? Cloud is going because of reasons and Sonic is safe, and Pacman, perhaps the only gaming icon who could rival Mario in iconicism, would leave if his owner isn't primary creator of the game?

I see a bunch of 3rd party characters being added. I even see some of them as being unlocked by owning the Swithc version of the game. It may piss off some, but it is where the series has been heading.

 

[PhantomShab]

who?

Nice. lol

You're alright.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Call me crazy with all the Goku beggars, but I think he has a chance in the DLC. I think Crash now has a chance in the base game with the trilogy coming to Switch and so does Rayman with countless Nintendo appearances. But Dragon Ball is insanely popular in Japan and relevant again because of Super. Call me a DB fanboy, but I think Goku might be a DLC surprise.

Goku is a 4th party character. Lower your expectations. Wanting Goku for Smash is a meme around here.

 

[MSmariosonic]

While I never have issues with any character making it into Smash, I just can't grasp the idea that a 4th party character can fit in.
Not that I don't like 'em. I just think there needs to be a a limit to how far one can go before the series loses it's focus.

You can call me a hypocrite for maining mostly 3rd party characters.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

For the record, 4th party isn't a real industry term, just a short hand for Non-videogame characters made by the Smash community.

Similarly 2nd party actually refers to you, the gamer but is used as a short had for companies Nintendo has partial ownership of.
Helps to explain why Kirby and Pikachu show up in Smash but almost no other Nintendo Crossover.

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

I think Sonic, Pacman, Megaman and Bayonetta are shoo ins.
I think Ryu is also likely too.
Cloud is iffy, I don't see why Square would not want Cloud but they are quite protective so that's 50-50.
For newcomers I think there would be quite the influx of 3rd party characters this time round.
I'm thinking Bomberman, Rayman and Crash Bandicoot.

 

[Adorable_Silly_Seiji]

I hope Bayo and Cloud won't comeback

 

[Polan]

I'm confident they are all coming back despite what the "NiNtEnDo OnLY!11!11!" crowd may say. For starters, they are all fairly popular characters. Nintendo also has a good working relationship with all the companies involved in Smash 4, including Square Enix. I believe that Snake only got the boot because Konami were being a bunch of twits, not because of some made up rule about being a one time thing. And finally Sakurai doesn't seem to like cuts and he seemed pretty proud of getting all these gaming all-stars in Smash. Something tells me he's going to try hard to get them all back and given the Switch's popularity, it won't be too difficult.

 

[Vintage Creep]

They're all 100% in except maybe Cloud.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Goku is a 4th party character.

This isn't a thing. Or rather, it is merely a colloquialism among the Smash-specific community, not an actual term from game development.

Spoiler

For the record, 4th party isn't a real industry term, just a short hand for Non-videogame characters made by the Smash community.

Similarly 2nd party actually refers to you, the gamer but is used as a short had for companies Nintendo has partial ownership of.
Helps to explain why Kirby and Pikachu show up in Smash but almost no other Nintendo Crossover.

This reminds me of that song. "Im the first person, you're the second person, earlier today I was in the third person." Drat.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"They never fit Smash" is perhaps the dumbest absolutely asinine argument out there.

Of course they fit Smash. They made it in the first place didn't they? Oh, art style is different? WELCOME TO CROSSOVERS! Let's talk about how well the somewhat realistic characters of Fire Emblem mesh with this bright and colorful Kirby stage, or maybe how awesome it is that Jigglypuff can be attacked by a horrifying Metroid! Or maybe we can talk about Bunny Ganondorf?

THESE ARTSYLE CLASHES ARE THE FREAKING POINT!

Oh? You think they aren't "Nintendo" enough? Well blow me down, I guess Mario's biggest rival is "Nintendo" enough. How does one even define that? History? Well I call bull then cause Ryu apparently isn't "Nintendo" enough, even though he practically redefined an entire genre (the one that Smash is, btw) on a Nintendo System. Oh but Pac-Man is suddenly Nintendo enough even though he's remembered for the arcade games and not the actual games that were on actual Nintendo systems. Street Fighter II? Yeah people know that! Pac-Man World 2? Uh....

I'm so freaking tired of that argument. Sakurai clearly doesn't adhere to it cause he obviously adds more popular and beloved third party characters who somehow keep breaking these rules.

"They never fit Smash" is stupid.

Sigh...

Just grow a pair and say you don't like them for whatever reason, it'd at least make sense that way.

 

[pupNapoleon]

"They never fit Smash" is perhaps the dumbest absolutely asinine argument out there.

Just grow a pair and say you don't like them for whatever reason, it'd at least make sense that way.

Jesus man, this seems a bit harsh.
I dont think saying a character doesnt fit in Smash is the same as saying they are disliked by the speaker.

I cannot picture Daisy in Smash all that easily. I love her as a character. But I dont think she fits in Smash.
My opinion isn't asinine just because I lack what me be the creativity needed to see her inclusion as worthwhile. it is in fact, just that, the limits of where my creativity and logic meet, which make her seem like an unnecessary and unfitting choice.

But it is not asinine.

 

[---]

- Sonic is in the same spot he was with 3DS/Wii U. Bayonetta has the most out of the gate going for her, but there is the ESRB rating.

- Same as Sonic. Guaranteed if Bandai Namco comes back.

- Mega Man is the same as Sonic. Besides being a new game that needs promotion, MM11 owes a lot to Smash. Ryu has to go through Capcom USA, but I see nothing else beyond Capcom prioritizing Mega Man.

- Hard to say, but to his credit, besides a remake that needs to be promoted, Square Enix said yes originally despite the Wii U being dead in the water. The Switch has a lot more momentum behind it and there is a chance SE could re-negotiate and receive even more money than they did originally with DLC.

- Very unlikely. I think it'd take a lot more development time to bring him back compared to the others, and I don't see Sakurai ignoring his friendship with Kojima. There could be another Konami/Hudson character, which I think is more likely to happen, but I still don't see it.

 

[Morbi]

Jesus man, this seems a bit harsh.
I dont think saying a character doesnt fit in Smash is the same as saying they are disliked by the speaker.

I cannot picture Daisy in Smash all that easily. I love her as a character. But I dont think she fits in Smash.
My opinion isn't asinine just because I lack what me be the creativity needed to see her inclusion as worthwhile. it is in fact, just that, the limits of where my creativity and logic meet, which make her seem like an unnecessary and unfitting choice.

But it is not asinine.

It technically is if you are trying to use that a basis for whether or not they are feasible. Snake is about as counter-intuitive as it gets and he was our first third-party. People used to meme and put Cloud on par with Goku and Master Chief, look what happened. Bayonetta, she is too sexy, and yet, here she is. None of them fit and therefore that argument is self-defeating. Realistically, the only characters that "do not fit" are characters that have not originated or nearly originated in video-games which is Sakurai's actual criteria and the only reason we cannot Kamehameha Nintendo characters.

He is not saying that your opinion is asinine. He is saying that if you genuinely believe Daisy is not going to make it into the game merely because you personally find that she does not fit, you are nonsensical. And to that end, quite hard to disagree.

 

[Megadoomer]

I can't really see the ESRB being an issue with Bayonetta - she was designed so that she fit Smash 4's current rating (at least in Japan; I assume that it also applies to other regions' rating boards).

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Unless if somehow Bayonetta gave it an instant M, I don't see the ESRB or any other countries rating board affecting her getting in.

Like hell Brawl has a T rating, so it wouldn't be the first time Smash has gotten a rating higher then E or E10+.

 

[PhantomShab]

"They never fit Smash" is perhaps the dumbest absolutely asinine argument out there.

Of course they fit Smash. They made it in the first place didn't they? Oh, art style is different? WELCOME TO CROSSOVERS! Let's talk about how well the somewhat realistic characters of Fire Emblem mesh with this bright and colorful Kirby stage, or maybe how awesome it is that Jigglypuff can be attacked by a horrifying Metroid! Or maybe we can talk about Bunny Ganondorf?

THESE ARTSYLE CLASHES ARE THE FREAKING POINT!

Oh? You think they aren't "Nintendo" enough? Well blow me down, I guess Mario's biggest rival is "Nintendo" enough. How does one even define that? History? Well I call bull then cause Ryu apparently isn't "Nintendo" enough, even though he practically redefined an entire genre (the one that Smash is, btw) on a Nintendo System. Oh but Pac-Man is suddenly Nintendo enough even though he's remembered for the arcade games and not the actual games that were on actual Nintendo systems. Street Fighter II? Yeah people know that! Pac-Man World 2? Uh....

I'm so freaking tired of that argument. Sakurai clearly doesn't adhere to it cause he obviously adds more popular and beloved third party characters who somehow keep breaking these rules.

"They never fit Smash" is stupid.

Sigh...

Just grow a pair and say you don't like them for whatever reason, it'd at least make sense that way.

lmao feels good to vent huh

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wish they could cut them all... *sigh* But that won't be happening.

Sonic, Bayonetta and Mega Man are ultra-safe. No good reason to cut them at all with all the attention Nintendo gave them.

Pac-Man and Ryu are relatively safe I guess. No good reason to cut them, and I think Namco-Bandai is still in anyway.

Only Cloud is real questionable. Which is good, cause as a character I like him the least. Seems like a one-time-only thing, much like Snake.

 

[Deleted member]

While I'm least confident in Cloud returning out of all the current third parties, I really don't get why people jump to the conclusion that he was a "one-time thing".

 

[ObeseCity]

Yeah, Sonic isn't going away anytime soon. Neither is Bayonetta, cause she's still relevant, with Bayonetta 2+1 on Switch now (both great games). Capcom seems to be on friendly terms with Nintendo, so I think Mega Man and Ryu have safe chances of coming back. Pac-Man is kind of iffy. Since we know Namco isn't developing the next game, it kind of makes sense for them to pull out, but..well, he's Pac-Man. I really don't want to see Cloud go, and I really want Snake back, but Square was for some reason really picky about Cloud, and I think Konami has their heads stuck too deep in pachinko machines to try and boost their reputation, not to mention David Hayter was abandoned. I don't care too much about Bomberman, but I think he's more likely. Or, their gonna be stupid and not let him in.

I'm sure at this point, Nintendo will bring in an indie character. I'd rather have Shantae over Shovel Knight because she would be more fun to play as and we need more girls. If Tecmo jumps aboard, I think Ryu Hayabusa is a safe bet. Maybe they can loosen up and get Banjo-Kazooie. Or they can bring in someone new to the Switch, like Dragonborn or Doomguy. Not saying it's likely.

 

[Deleted member]

Since we know Namco isn't developing the next game

No we don't.

They never stated who is going to co-develop this game. And before anyone mentions the official site, that's just a copyright statement. Nintendo and Hal co-own the Smash IP.