What if the Screw Attack were a multi-jump?

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#1
Basically, shorten it's upward distance, and let it be used three times. The Space Jump/Screw Attack combo has never been about a single big jump. It's always been you hitting it repeatedly to go up in a spinning motion. Just feels like one of those things that probably would have been done had Samus been released later, but was kept because of grandfather clause.
 
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#2
Basically, shorten it's upward distance, and let it be used three times. The Space Jump/Screw Attack combo has never been about a single big jump. It's always been you hitting it repeatedly to go up in a spinning motion. Just feels like one of those things that probably would have been done had Samus been released later, but was kept because of grandfather clause.
Who said the Samus in Smash has the Space Jump?
 

Tubby_Squirrel

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#3
What opportunities would this open up and close up if this change were to occur?
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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BahamurShin
#9
It is pretty average, tbh. Just a lot of average options.
Samus has very good aerial mobility. When coming back to the stage she can mix it up by stalling in mid air with Bombs, firing a Homing Missile to stuff edge guard approaches, use the air time to charge her Charge Shot (which can be B reversed now) , use a long range tether to grab the ledge aside from using her Up Special.
At the ledge, she can also mix it up with her aerials, Charge Shot and Bombs.

What is exactly average about her recovery options?
 
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#10
Samus has very good aerial mobility. When coming back to the stage she can mix it up by stalling in mid air with Bombs, firing a Homing Missile to stuff edge guard approaches, use the air time to charge her Charge Shot (which can be B reversed now) , use a long range tether to grab the ledge aside from using her Up Special.
At the ledge, she can also mix it up with her aerials, Charge Shot and Bombs.

What is exactly average about her recovery options?
If you put into consideration that she has no invincibility, small hitboxes that can be intercepted, slightly higher than average air speed, one double jump that isn't bad but not amazing, it's not something to really be excited over.

In fact, the best thing she has going for her is her ability to stall offstage.
 

Ryu Myuutsu

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BahamurShin
#12
If you put into consideration that she has no invincibility, small hitboxes that can be intercepted, slightly higher than average air speed, one double jump that isn't bad but not amazing, it's not something to really be excited over.

In fact, the best thing she has going for her is her ability to stall offstage.
I'm not getting excited over anything. I'm just stating that Samus toolkit for recovery is more than just "average".

That really didn't tell me much. There aren't many characters who have an invincible recovery.
 
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#13
What'd be really nice is if Samus could not be helpless after using Screw Attack. Imagine being able to use something like z-air afterwards to grab the ledge when necessary. If Samus won't be given an extra mid-air jump, give her freedom to move. Other characters like Sonic, Bayonetta, or Snake aren't helpless, so why is Samus? She's been able to perform other things after using Screw Attack. See Metroid Fusion, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Metroid: Other M for examples.
 

osby

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#14
What'd be really nice is if Samus could not be helpless after using Screw Attack. Imagine being able to use something like z-air afterwards to grab the ledge when necessary. If Samus won't be given an extra mid-air jump, give her freedom to move. Other characters like Sonic, Bayonetta, or Snake aren't helpless, so why is Samus? She's been able to perform other things after using Screw Attack. See Metroid Fusion, Metroid: Zero Mission, and Metroid: Other M for examples.
You're saying it like Samus is an exception, not those three and very few others.
 

Downshift

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#18
Screw Attack + Space Jump would essentially give her an infinite recovery if we follow the 2D Metroid game mechanics.

What I think would be a good improvement would be a way to angle Screw Attack. In most games the attack goes up at an angle, so we should be able to angle it either straight up, or diagonally up to the left or right.
This would also be incredibly useful to stuff aerial approaches from swordies and others that attack from those upward diagonal blindspots.
 
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Txukasa

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#19
So? I really don't care.
No worries friend, I completly get you. She really isn't much like her games. Its funny, as a melee/PM player, I was pretty upset when I realized that I cant dodge and then use tether to get more distance... kinda bs. The guy that's disagreeing with you doesn't seem too informed on how easy it is to stuff samus's recovery or how MUCH WORSE it is in ultimate and 4 as compared to melee/PM. They literally nerfed her bomb jump lol, its really bad in ultimate compared to what it was in melee/PM and her respective games.
 
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#21
Y'know, stuff like this is probably why the screw attack ITEM exists... to have all the fun of Metroid space jumping without worrying too much about proper balance.
 
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Downshift

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#22
This doesn't apply to characters who can fly in their own games for balancing purposes.
Yeah your suggestion that she be able to tether the ledge after screw attack would be accurate to her games while also not broken like space jump.
In addition to a buff to bombs to assist in recovering height again and an angled screw attack, she could have a top 10 recovery. Only thing missing would be armor/invincibility frames.
 
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#23
Yeah your suggestion that she be able to tether the ledge after screw attack would be accurate to her games while also not broken like space jump.
In addition to a buff to bombs to assist in recovering height again and an angled screw attack, she could have a top 10 recovery. Only thing missing would be armor/invincibility frames.
It'd only be a recovery buff. It's not like Samus can perform DA > u-air 2x > Screw Attack in her current form. She doesn't need invincibility frames or whatever because while this was the case in Super Metroid, Ridley was still able to hit her out of Screw Attack with his tail whip. This invincibility has long been removed since Metroid Fusion.
 

Lorisaur

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#24
Well... you say what if she had real screw attack, or space jump? I say "what if Samus had at least a half of her potential in the original games?" Being serious... power bombs would be enough to make her absolutely overpowered. Or even plasma beam. Or ICE BEAM.
 
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#25
Well... you say what if she had real screw attack, or space jump? I say "what if Samus had at least a half of her potential in the original games?" Being serious... power bombs would be enough to make her absolutely overpowered. Or even plasma beam. Or ICE BEAM.
It says a lot when not even the Project M devs, the guys who made a concerted effort to adjust characters like Ganondorf and Wario to be more faithful to their games, saw fit to change Screw Attack in any way suggested here.

Plasma Beam's a bit weird... absolutely overpowered in free-for-all where it could get multi kills from a safe distance, to situational at best and redundant at worst in 1v1s depending on the matchup with it's enemy piercing. In fact most of the beams Samus has gotten over the years wouldn't provide any meaningful difference in how she plays. All I'd do is change some of the fire in Samus's moves to ice, even if it doesn't result in any freezing or is on missiles despite them being less iconic than the beam version.
 

Downshift

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#26
It'd only be a recovery buff. It's not like Samus can perform DA > u-air 2x > Screw Attack in her current form. She doesn't need invincibility frames or whatever because while this was the case in Super Metroid, Ridley was still able to hit her out of Screw Attack with his tail whip. This invincibility has long been removed since Metroid Fusion.
Yeah I was only talking about buffing recovery to be top 10. I mentioned invincibility during Screw Attack meaning that would make it arguably the best in the game.

Bomb -> bomb -> bomb -> Screw Attack (invincible) -> mid-air jump -> tether
Yeah, broken :laugh:
 
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Porygon2

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#27
It says a lot when not even the Project M devs, the guys who made a concerted effort to adjust characters like Ganondorf and Wario to be more faithful to their games, saw fit to change Screw Attack in any way suggested here.

Plasma Beam's a bit weird... absolutely overpowered in free-for-all where it could get multi kills from a safe distance, to situational at best and redundant at worst in 1v1s depending on the matchup with it's enemy piercing. In fact most of the beams Samus has gotten over the years wouldn't provide any meaningful difference in how she plays. All I'd do is change some of the fire in Samus's moves to ice, even if it doesn't result in any freezing or is on missiles despite them being less iconic than the beam version.
Presumably plasma could pierce while causing more damage and less knockback. If it also moved slower it could have some setups to hit a single fighter multiple times. Also saw a neat idea elsewhere that wave beam could bypass shields to cause % damage, but without knockback or damage to the shield itself.

I personally find the beam switching idea a little gimmicky, and would rather just see these put on revamped smash attacks or something. Maybe the extra effects only become active after charging for 20+ frames or something.
 

Dsull

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#28
probably the reason it wasnt her normal jump to begin with was "what would her upb be?" problems.

Wouldnt make any sense to have her UpB be re-usable, though im surprised she doesnt have atleast a double air jump via space jump at the least.
 
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