What if Smash stayed 100% canon to the source material?

[FamilyTeam]

Criticals are also in FF7 and probably FE (don't know because haven't played) but I don't remember the percentage or requirement for that happening.

Each weapon has its own percentage, and that can be affected depending on your character's luck level and whoever that person is paired up with, I believe.
Atleast that's how I think it works in Awakening.
I have no idea how much additional damage it does... but I know I very rarely see anyone surviving a crit.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

would have heavy debuffs applied to her whenever Ridley appears on Pyrosphere as a representation of her PTSD, but is otherwise ridiculously broken.
would take double damage from every attack (and also have heavy debuffs applied to her when Ridley's active on Pyrosphere).
and could use bazookas instead of pistols.
and wouldn't be able to use half the moves they do.
would be top tier because of his immense strength.
would be top-tier because she's a god.

would be taking double damage from and /, but also would deal double damage to and .
using Rest wouldn't deal massive damage.
wouldn't be able to fight anybody who didn't have a sword.

 

[Khao]

Sometimes I wonder the opposite, as in, what if you controlled characters in their original games like they controlled in smash?
Just a few thoughts. . .
Pokemon battles would be pretty intense
Kirby would be running around causing havoc with his combos on poor innocent looking creatures
Villager would accidentally cause a genocide
Little mac could super armor through everything and rush his opponents down. Forget dodging.

I really want to play a Kirby game with his smash controls now. It seems like fun!

I remember how every time I was playing the Adventure Mode in the Zelda stage as Link, I would pretend I was playing a new sidescroller Zelda as a sort-of follow-up to Adventure of Link. Thought the illussion was always broken when suddenly I found a beamsword lying on the ground, or I found a hammer.

Still, I would love to see something like that someday.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Pokémon technically wouldn't mega evolve because they need a trainer with a strong bond with them. And no one mentioned Critical Hits with 12.5% chances of happening at every attack? 1.5 damage and knockback lol
Criticals are also in FF7 and probably FE (don't know because haven't played) but I don't remember the percentage or requirement for that happening.

FE characters do also have Criticals but they do 3x the damage instead. o.o Also any FF game Critical Hits do 2x.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Would all be pretry close to useless.

One of these things is not like the other...

 

[Xandercosm]

Well, that's in Smash. We're talking about canon source material. Plus, 3D characters are always still rendered in two dimensions.

Either way, pretty much every single one of these characters started out in a 2D game, with sprites and stuff, yet we don't talk about them as if being 2D is part of who they are. So I don't think we should be giving Game & Watch any special attributes. For one, shouldn't Ice Climbers be given the same weaknesses and advantages considering they were never in a non-2D game?

Better question: forget about Smash entirely. Are the Game & Watch characters 2D in their original console because they're supposed to be perceived that way within their world, or is that simply the way they happened represented within the console for several reasons? (like technological limitations, or stylistic choices)

I would say they weren't supposed to be perceived as 2D. They're like any other character doing things in a world, 2D is just the way they're being shown to us. While playing on a Game & Watch, you weren't thinking about how 2D characters were. It wasn't a flat entity doing things with other flat entities, but an "actual" diver hunting for an "actual" treasure while avoiding an "actual" octopus. Or an actual dude juggling some balls. If you manage to get yourself immersed into these worlds and characters (as hard as that would be considering how simplistic they were =P) you would no longer be thinking about LCD displays, or flat people.

Damn, that was deep...

 

[Tizio Random]

FE characters do also have Criticals but they do 3x the damage instead. o.o Also any FF game Critical Hits do 2x.

Well, they will be turn based but imagine tipper F-smash Marth with critical hit. Kill at 0% lol

EDIT: I just figure it out: that's his final smash. Smart Sakurai.

 

[Kamtheman56]

Link would be pretty powerful considering he gets a lot of stuff along his adventures. But if you were to just regard Twilight Princess the game this Brawl and 4 Link is based off of he would be able to use 4 Bottles full of what have you, Double Clawshots, Hero's Bow and arrows, Bomb Arrows, 3 different types of Bombs, a Ball and Chain, the Spinner, the Dominion Rod, Gale Boomerang, Iron Boots, Hawkeye, a slingshot, a Lantern, 2 Different Swords, 2 Different Shields, 2 extra outfits being the Magic Armor and the Zora Armor. Along with Sword Skill abilities including the Endling Blow, Shield Attack, Back Slice, Helm Splitter, Mortal Draw, Jump Strike, and the Great Spin. Now while that may seem like a lot keep in mind that's all just from one game, but if you were to combine Links inventory from every game he's been in? Imagine how much of a tank he'd be.

 

[zeldasmash]

Link would be pretty powerful considering he gets a lot of stuff along his adventures. But if you were to just regard Twilight Princess the game this Brawl and 4 Link is based off of he would be able to use 4 Bottles full of what have you, Double Clawshots, Hero's Bow and arrows, Bomb Arrows, 3 different types of Bombs, a Ball and Chain, the Spinner, the Dominion Rod, Gale Boomerang, Iron Boots, Hawkeye, a slingshot, a Lantern, 2 Different Swords, 2 Different Shields, 2 extra outfits being the Magic Armor and the Zora Armor. Along with Sword Skill abilities including the Endling Blow, Shield Attack, Back Slice, Helm Splitter, Mortal Draw, Jump Strike, and the Great Spin. Now while that may seem like a lot keep in mind that's all just from one game, but if you were to combine Links inventory from every game he's been in? Imagine how much of a tank he'd be.

Composite Link would probably be one of the most overpowered beings in all of video gaming if he was ever conjured up. If Link had access to every single ability, potion, item, skill, armor and magic in all of the Zelda games plus the full Triforce (Skyward Sword), Link would basically be near omnipotent.

 

[Khao]

Hey, so.

That thing I posted in the last page, with Mario fighting against Mega Man?

I set up a browser version of it.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84160225/Como Smash pero no/index.html

It's multiplayer-only, so you're gonna have to get someone else to play around with. But I figure it's a perfect way to find out if Mario is more powerful than Mega Man or viceversa if we wanna just go by the mechanics of their original games!

(also if the game window is too small, hold ctrl and roll the mouse wheel a bit)

 

[Xandercosm]

Hey, so.

That thing I posted in the last page, with Mario fighting against Mega Man?

I set up a browser version of it.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84160225/Como Smash pero no/index.html

It's multiplayer-only, so you're gonna have to get someone else to play around with. But I figure it's a perfect way to find out if Mario is more powerful than Mega Man or viceversa if we wanna just go by the mechanics of their original games!

(also if the game window is too small, hold ctrl and roll the mouse wheel a bit)

Sweet! Maybe Mega Man's shots should be blocked by the pipe in the center, though.

 

[Suzukipot]

wouldn't have most of his PSI moves or Rope Snake.

just laughs at you that's all he does he murders ducks and laughs at you when you can't murder ducks

[Only available in cut scenes]

 

[Deleted member]

omg guys I just thought of something

WE SHOULD HAVE A MATCHUP DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS

Imagine the vs. MU. Both would actually have a really strong chance at winning instead of Bowser being wrecked by Dedede as he is in Smash 4.

 

[FamilyTeam]

An actualy vs. battle. Oh god.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

omg guys I just thought of something

WE SHOULD HAVE A MATCHUP DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS

Imagine the vs. MU. Both would actually have a really strong chance at winning instead of Bowser being wrecked by Dedede as he is in Smash 4.

THATS A greAT IDEA!!!!!
What about vs
Destroyer of gods vs a god???

 

[Bedoop]

omg guys I just thought of something

WE SHOULD HAVE A MATCHUP DISCUSSION REGARDING THIS

Imagine the vs. MU. Both would actually have a really strong chance at winning instead of Bowser being wrecked by Dedede as he is in Smash 4.

Well considering Kirby is 8 inches, Dedede is about 2 Kirbys high and Bowser is the biggest reoccuring character in the Mario Series (Characters like Petey (And also Waluigi, but only his MK: Double Dash model is bigger and in no other game) are bigger in non-resize conditions but y'know)
That's an ~1'4" Penguin VS a 5'+ Demon Turtle
Dedede can still win, yes (Because Micro Mario can still kick Bowser's ass and that's about as small as Chibi Robo, imagine Micro Mario with a Pickle Barrel on a stick) but it wouldn't be a walk in the park for Dedede.

 

[Deleted member]

THATS A greAT IDEA!!!!!
What about vs
Destroyer of gods vs a god???

I've played Uprising but not Xenoblade, so I can't say. ;-;

It'd be no doubt awesome to witness, though.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I've played Uprising but not Xenoblade, so I can't say. ;-;

It'd be no doubt awesome to witness, though.

Sorry for spoiling it

 

[Deleted member]

Sorry for spoiling it

S'alright, lol

 

[Sytal]

I feel like 100% canon material would result in self-conflict for a lot of characters without certain parameters in place.
For example, Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario 3D World vary greatly in how Mario's abilities are represented.
In one game Mario starts small and dies quickly, while in the other Mario starts the stage in mushroom state already. So which is chosen?

So for the sake of consistency and "fairness," if such a game were to be made I think a good set of parameters to follow for all characters might be:
1. Taking source material from a character's first game.
2. Taking source material from a character's more recent game that properly represents them.
3. Taking source material from a character's game that has similar style to Smash Bros. mechanics.

Taking all this into consideration makes me realize that reasons like these are probably why some characters heavily deviate from their normal game styles in Smash.

 

[Khao]

I feel like 100% canon material would result in self-conflict for a lot of characters without certain parameters in place.
For example, Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario 3D World vary greatly in how Mario's abilities are represented.
In one game Mario starts small and dies quickly, while in the other Mario starts the stage in mushroom state already. So which is chosen?

So for the sake of consistency and "fairness," if such a game were to be made I think a good set of parameters to follow for all characters might be:
1. Taking source material from a character's first game.
2. Taking source material from a character's more recent game that properly represents them.
3. Taking source material from a character's game that has similar style to Smash Bros. mechanics.

Taking all this into consideration makes me realize that reasons like these are probably why some characters heavily deviate from their normal game styles in Smash.

And that's not getting into how certain characters abilities would react to elements not present in their own games.

Like, I've seen a lot of people talking about how certain characters can only be hurt by certain things (most commonly Ganondorf, which is kinda weird seeing how he can be hurt by several different things in Zelda, including wooden sticks) but can they only be hurt by those things, or are those things the only thing in those worlds that can hurt them? How do we know how all those characters react to things that are not found in their games?

There's also other kinds of stuff. Like how in these discussions, people often bring Mario's powerups as things that make him strong. But if Mario has access to things like Fire Flowers and starmans in a fight, what's stopping their opponent from getting them too? Would they not work on them simply because they don't exist in their world?

 

[Sytal]

And that's not getting into how certain characters abilities would react to elements not present in their own games.

Like, I've seen a lot of people talking about how certain characters can only be hurt by certain things (most commonly Ganondorf, which is kinda weird seeing how he can be hurt by several different things in Zelda, including wooden sticks) but can they only be hurt by those things, or are those things the only thing in those worlds that can hurt them? How do we know how all those characters react to things that are not found in their games?

There's also other kinds of stuff. Like how in these discussions, people often bring Mario's powerups as things that make him strong. But if Mario has access to things like Fire Flowers and starmans in a fight, what's stopping their opponent from getting them too? Would they not work on them simply because they don't exist in their world?

I actually had one more thing to add to my original post but I forgot about it at the time, and it has a lot to do with what you said. Are characters represented as if they came from a completed file with all their stats, items, and health? Or do they start as if they were fresh? Or perhaps from an early part of the game so they at least have some items?
Gack, too many variables!

 

[apparently fuz]

My good comrade @Spinny made a tier list of all the characters if they were "canonized". What do you guys think?

Shulk would need to be first, since at the end of the game, he gets pretty damn OP.

Dunno why Dark Pit and Pit are separated, and they should both be in A, along with Ganon.

Move Mewtwo to the top half of A.

Move Toon Link waaaaaaaaaaaaaay down.

Samus is way too low, at least mid of A.

Move Zelda, Captain Falcon, and Olimar down.

There's a lot wrong but I can't be bothered naming all of it.

 

[FamilyTeam]

To be honest, Mario and Luigi are like, the ultimate Mary Sue. Sure, they're defeated once or twice, but something always helps them get back up and win. They always face the most unlikely of odds and they always triumph.

 

[Newtonjar]

Would all be pretty close to useless.

I would argue that rosalina wouldn't be useless. She has magic powers. If you try to jump on her she has a forcefield meaning she does have some sort of protection.

 

[Sytal]

To be honest, Mario and Luigi are like, the ultimate Mary Sue. Sure, they're defeated once or twice, but something always helps them get back up and win. They always face the most unlikely of odds and they always triumph.

I think we could say that for quite a few other characters too though.

 

[FamilyTeam]

I think we could say that for quite a few other characters too though.

Seems to happen especially often with Mario, Luigi and Sonic, tbh.

 

[Sytal]

Seems to happen especially often with Mario, Luigi and Sonic, tbh.

Hahaha, yeah, they get it pretty often. But just about every other character in Smash that comes from a game where they are the protagonist with a storyline has a Mary Sue moment. Megaman and his variations have had a few. So has Pit, some pokemon spin-off games, Shulk, Cloud, Kirby, and Link - just to name a few.
I mean yeah, some games will be more heavy than others in this facet (Looking at you Cloud), but its pretty common in most games as a storytelling gimmick and (Most importantly) a way to make the gamer feel empowered while they play.
(Like when Kirby got the Hypernova fruit in a boss fight. That feeling is FANTASTIC.)
Truthfully for Mario Bros., I see it less in main entries and more in the RPG entries.

 

[Marrow]

- his grab would be actually good, but he'd have to eat something to get an egg

but his grab would be ACTUALLY GOOD

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Sometimes I wonder the opposite, as in, what if you controlled characters in their original games like they controlled in smash?

Kirby would be running around causing havoc with his combos on poor innocent looking creatures

Late but: Kirby already runs around causing havoc with his combos on poor innocent looking creatures. If anything, his combos in Smash are nerfed compared to the shenanigans he can pull off with copy abilities in his own games. Sword and Fighter Kirby have insane combos on any non-boss enemy that lives long enough for you to pull them off.

Also, correction re: Sonic: he wouldn't die instantly off the side upon tapping a direction. Sonic's acceleration in modern Sonic games without boosting is actually significantly slower than in Smash Bros., as he starts out at a walk and transitions through a light jog, to a slow run, to his full-on dash. And while he would be KO'd in one hit due to not having the opportunity to collect rings, his Homing Attack would be absurdly fast, almost perfectly accurate, and able to send foes flying at literally the exact same speed he slammed into them.

Correction re: Fox, Falco, and Wolf: They have all fought on foot in Star Fox Assault, and Fox did in Star Fox Adventures as well.

Correction re: Ike: Ragnell is not a throwing weapon, not in PoR or RD. Its ranged attack has the user slamming it against the ground to release a shockwave that travels quite quickly.

Correction re: Ness: He does not learn PK Brainshock in Earthbound. On the other hand, he would have a self-heal, as well as a shield that halves damage from 3 incoming physical attacks, returning damage to the attacker equal to the damage he took.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I would argue that rosalina wouldn't be useless. She has magic powers. If you try to jump on her she has a forcefield meaning she does have some sort of protection.

My reason for Rosa is she is a very pacifistic (thats a word, right?) character. She never acts maliciously or against anyone, only in the service of others

 

[ChefKef]

: Footstools would instantly kill, would have hover nozzle for F.L.U.U.D, would die in 2/3/4/8 hits, faster but limited fireballs, side B: BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP BLOOP

 

[Xerneas]

Wouldn't be able to recover at all except for his few little flaps as extra jumps unless was on his team and using the power of flight on him

Would probably have a very different moveset from Pit since he absorbed the powers of another character (not spoiling which character, i know the game has been out for a long time but you never know someone might not want to know)

Would barely be able to harm any of the human characters (maybe Link/Zelda as well since they are elves which are similar to humans, maybe including Pit and Pittoo since angels could be considered similar to high entia) but Mega Man and ROB wouldnt stand a chance

Could pick up almost anything no matter how big it was, but only be able to put it right in front of them not throw it, they could try hitting people with a shovel but it would just make them talk to the person instead, hitting people with the net would just make them angry or sad, the axe would be harmless, and when playing on Smashville or Town and City Phyllis would always be angrily glaring at you unless you got hit which would make her smile and she would laugh when you got KO'd

I'd like to say that would evolve into raichu if it came in contact with a screw attack ball, but probably not

 

[blackghost]

well top tier would easily be ganon bayonetta, palutena, rosalina and kirby. you know the gods and god slayers in smash.
bayoneta stops time and beats everyone (although she'll have to continuously kill ganon.
palutena breaks the4th wall so bad they all realize they're fictional characters.
kirby does his hole suck the universe attack
and then rosalina resets the timeline and repeat.
worst charcter rob or game and watch (obvious rrasons are obvious)

 

[Silvia]

Well Rosalina is a force to be reckoned with. If anyone's top tier, its Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina, and Pikachu.

 

[blackghost]

Well Rosalina is a force to be reckoned with. If anyone's top tier, its Sheik, ZSS, Rosalina, and Pikachu.

shiek, zss, and pikachu are nothing in canon. pikachu drops to t4th in pokemon alone let alon the whole roster.

 

[Goolloom]

R.O.B would be the most OP clearly, he's the only one that actually exists.

 

[marteen_]

EXTREME XENOBLADE SPOILERS

Spoiler

Shulk kills God, then becomes God for a bit at the end of Xenoblade Chronicles. Towards the end, he was also able to see into the near future almost at will.
It should also be mentioned that he has other Monado Arts at his disposal.

Yoshi also doesn't die unless he jumps down a pit or into spikes or lava in Yoshi's Island. Egg lay would also be a lot more powerful, since he can throw the laid egg at will to where he wants.

 

[Meta_X]

Then Samus wouldn't suck

 

[Furret24]

EXTREME XENOBLADE SPOILERS

Spoiler

Shulk kills God, then becomes God for a bit at the end of Xenoblade Chronicles. Towards the end, he was also able to see into the near future almost at will.
It should also be mentioned that he has other Monado Arts at his disposal.

Yoshi also doesn't die unless he jumps down a pit or into spikes or lava in Yoshi's Island. Egg lay would also be a lot more powerful, since he can throw the laid egg at will to where he wants.

He could also use his double an infinite amount of times. Egg Lay would also be easier to get since it would have more range and it's angle could be changed (at least midair).