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[What If] Items Meter

Pegasus Knight

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
708
Disclaimer: I know it's too late in development for this idea to be implemented. Moreover, Sakurai probably doesn't even read Smashboards. This is posted as a mental exercise, just for fun.

So, one of the staples of Melee tournament play is that items are banned. Completely. This is understandable; random spawning adds variance to the game that isn't necessarily desirable. For example, an exploding crate falling all of an inch above your character for an instant KO - that sucks! Thus, it is a random gameplay element that simply isn't wanted in tournaments; fair enough.

But what if there a way to make them non-random, and give each character access to them? Hear me out on this...what if there was a percentage-based Item Meter/Item Gauge that built up as you did things the game designer wanted to encourage? For example, maybe he wants to encourage risky aerial combos, and the meter would increase its percentage when you did things like that? Please don't nitpick what exact actions it might be that would build this meter; the concept rather than the specifics is what's important here.

So now you have a meter filling its percentage (or it could be a graphical bar, like in Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, etc.). Fine. What could you do with it? Spawn items. The gauge would be depleted all at once, and could have spawning behavior where an item appears either in your character's hand, or very near-by so they can grab it quickly. The items could spawn randomly from a pool of choices; less powerful items would use less meter, better ones would use more. For example...

0-32 percent: Nothing spawns, no meter used.

33 to 65 percent: A single 'First Group' item will spawn. These would be items with a relatively low impact on the match, such as a 10% Healing item, a Pokeball that only spawns a random low-to-mid-power Pokemon, the Baseball Bat, Smoke Bombs, and so on.

66 to 99 Percent: A single 'Second Group' item spawns. These would be items with more impact on a match, such as a 25% healing item, a Pokeball with stronger Pokey-men within, the Franklin Badge, and so forth.

100 percent: A Smash Ball spawns. This would be the equivalent to blowing all your meter for a 'Level 3 Super' in games like Capcom vs. SNK 2.

Obviously the game's controls aren't conductive to spawning specific items, so the item created would be a random item from the relevant 'Item Group'. The meter would reset to 0 when used, so you only get one item at a time.

While the items spawned would be random, they'd all come from a pre-selected list of items aimed at competitive play. If this were to work precisely as I hope it would, you would have Legal Items in Tournaments because they are no longer 'scrubby random nonsense' that instantly changes the outcome of a match; they influence it, but you have control over when that influence happens. Fun idea?
 

Chromeless

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
86
I've had the exact same thoughts myself,it would certainly be worthwhile to impliment this for the Smash Ball at least (you could set only SBs to be available if anythign happens otherwise).
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
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As I said in yet another topic earlier today: The ONLY reason they are banned is due to capsules, crates and barrels exploding during attacks. That and nothing else.
 

Pyroloserkid

Smash Master
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As I said in yet another topic earlier today: The ONLY reason they are banned is due to capsules, crates and barrels exploding during attacks. That and nothing else.
That IS true, but this idea would rid the world of Crates, Barrels, and Capsules.
IMO, this is a genius idea and would actually make me WANT to play with items. The fact that you'd have to work to get the item is amazing. This would involve skill and strategy, and if this is how Smash worked, I could see items being used in tournaments.
 

GuardianSphinx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 8, 2004
Messages
409
pretty fun idea yeah, maybe a special brawl or something. Or just something you can switch on or off.
 

Aryman

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I just hope there is an option to turn off exploding crates and barrels. that's all.
 

Pegasus Knight

Smash Ace
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Jun 1, 2007
Messages
708
Arvman: I can safely say that if I was on Brawl's dev-team (which I'm not), and this idea got implemented...yes, the random stupidity of falling explosive containers that tend to smash you off-stage would be gone. This would be purely spawning 1 item, not a container which might blow up in your face.

It would ideally also be limited to influencing the match in proportion to the 'meter cost' used for it. But the main goal would be to reduce the random behavior of items (not eliminate, just massively reduce), since players would choose when they spawn, and they would hopefully be limited to items that don't instantly change the outcome of the match (possibly with Final Smashes excepted; we don't know just how good those are), but can affect it to a fair extent.

The idea would be to add a new element to tournament gameplay, without causing 'omfg! Ridiculous!' outcomes like exploding containers currently do. Full-heal items would also presumably be banned.
 

Aryman

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The one thing I don't like about your idea is how the bar would fill up. If certain moves are encouraged, (say aerial combos as you said) players who want to get an item such as the smash ball would bepressured to use those moves quickly before their opponent has a chance to do the same. This in itself would affect how players players conduct matches (by rewarding some moves and not others) and would therefore have too much impact on gameplay.

Another thing is, some characters are more fitted to perform certain moves and combos rather than others. Fox or Marth would have no problem performing aerial combos, for example, but characters like Zelda and Ganondorf would not, giving them a disadvantage.
 

Pegasus Knight

Smash Ace
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'Aerial combos' was an example, as I stressed in the initial post. It could just be attacking in general, for a more universal take on it; Guilty Gear does this. Or it could be some other activity Sakurai wants to encourage, but the idea was "Do something, make meter grow."
 

DJ Napps

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Although this isnt exactly needed for tournaments (an on-off switch could be implemented, as said b4), this idea could be a fun addition.

However, it should have its own mode or easily turned off, ya digg?
 

_Phloat_

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Great idea, I think that more depth is always good, another system that casual people don't have to learn, but can add to the game is a great thing for smash!

But, sadly, this is not very likely, but I know you know that =D

Keep on thinkin, we need something (besides school) to tide us over 'till brawl!
 

Aryman

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Right, but you did say the bar would fill up when players did

things the game designer wanted to encourage?
Which would then create imbalances depending on what character you use.

If it is just attacking in general, then yea it could work. Just dont reward some moves more than others.
 

_Phloat_

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Right, but you did say the bar would fill up when players did



Which would then create imbalances depending on what character you use.

If it is just attacking in general, then yea it could work. Just dont reward some moves more than others.

I think that slower characters' bar would fill up faster, that would be more fair.

You should get a good reward for landing bowser's F-smash, not for landing shiek's jab.
 

MzNetta

Oh no she betta don't
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Even better idea to allow items into tournament play:

If Sakurai were to put Barrels, Crates and Capsules on the list of items that can be turned off.
 

Rx-

A.K.A. Disafter
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With all the effort that was put into boxes and crates this time around, it doesn't seem likely that Sakurai will want to turn them off.
 

OnyxVulpine

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This could make it as a mode, a sort of setting for items. Its an interesting idea but I think it causes too much attention to come off of the enemy and will make your eyes have to check the meter every now and then eh?

If any of you are like me, I do better when I'm close to the idea. Like when I do my Rubik's Cube.. I know what moves to do, but once I take my eyes off of it, I mess up a lot.

If you look at the meter during the fight they could do something unexpected and you could lose.. Not sure if this really does make a difference but it would for me.
 

Rang Flash

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I think that there should be a new fighting mode in special melee that uses power meters that you can build up for final smashes. It would be similar to giant melee, tiny melee, etc.
 
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