skellitorman
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2005
- Messages
- 319
Kirby’s max air speed is 1. This is only .35 less than Jigglypuff (who has the highest value in the game) and .32 higher than Luigi (who has the lowest value in the game) so his aerial speed is relatively good. However, Kirby’s aerial mobility is .04 which is one of the lowest values in the game by a lot. Wario’s aerial mobility is more than 8 times that amount and even characters who are way faster than Kirby (such as Fox, Wolf, and Lucas) have at least double Kirby’s aerial mobility value.
Because of Kirby’s lack of this value he significantly lacks the ability to accelerate and decelerate, regardless of his max aerial speed. People usually refer to this as being “slow” just like Bowser is considered “slow” on the ground for similar reasons (even though his max run speed is actually above average, his initial dash speed is too slow).
Unfortunately RAR bair isn’t a solid replacement. Inputting a successful RAR requires a few extra frames since you have to input back on the control stick, then forward, before inputting the jump. This makes it worse as an offensive option that requires speed. Furthermore if you get shielded (in certain offensive situations where you would be using fair), then Kirby is significantly punishable unlike fair (due to the lack of extra hits and aerial mobility), which uses the extra hits while fading back to make safer.
Using jump in the air to turn around, also has significant limitations. Again, you have to perform the inputs of a RAR which makes it suffer for the same reason. However, it’s significantly worse than RAR because Kirby has to wait an additional 6 frames before inputting an attack or he won’t finish turning around (meaning you would get fair instead). Also, the jump turn around resets his momentum and as mentioned in my previous post, Kirby already lacks mobility, so this would just make this problem more prevalent.
Furthermore using a jump to turn around forces Kirby to go up which can be the opposite direction that you need to travel in order to reach the opponent.
Additionally uair and dair is strongest when facing the opponent and if you turn around, then you cut off both options.
Obviously if a problem tool is the direct cause of a disadvantageous MU then adjusting it will solve the problem. However, it is not always the case that the problem tool(s) that do exist also happen to be the reasons why a MU against another character is uneven. I’ll use your Fox example and suppose that up throw to up air was a problem tool.
Let’s suppose that the only reason that Fox does so well against Kirby is that although they both have similar range, Fox has a projectile and incredible mobility, whereas Kirby lacks both a projectile and mobility. Because of this, Fox can laser camp Kirby effectively and control the engagement too well. If Fox lost the ability to up throw to upair then he can just KO Kirby with all of his other effective KO options even if he had to rack up a bit more percent. Unless Kirby has certain adjustments, then Fox would still wreck Kirby completely in a one sided MU. Alternatively Fox could be changed so significantly, that the MU would be affected accordingly.
Now imagine that this example is the case against a wide variety of characters (to a lesser degree), but they don’t have problem tools to tone down, and may even get buffs. What is the best course of action here, strictly in terms of balance? This was the point I was making.
I explained clearly how an opponent can take advantage in all the types of situations due to the Kirby player reading the tech wrong or not reacting correctly. There is no purpose in arguing that a player is doing something wrong in a situation such as this, which requires some form of guessing. It doesn’t change the facts I presented.
Regardless of crouch being “godlike” or not, the argument he made about crouch overstates its abilities.
This point is completely irrelevant. The statement: “If Kirby had really solid KO options (which he does not) then this would be less of a problem” was a fact about a problem that exists. Regardless of what Kirby’s main game plan is, the problem I explain in my previous post exists. If you read the statement under its context, then it should be easier to understand this.
He does not once say anything along the lines of (tool name) is one of the best “anti approach” tools. Now let’s suppose that (after reading my post) he did say that all the tools that you claimed here are among the best “anti approach” tools. I would respond by saying the following:
Intercepting and stuffing approaches is not something that is specific to Kirby. If you read and understood my post, then you will see that other characters actually excel at this more than Kirby in almost every aspect (other characters have “zoning” options, more mobility for better positioning, more range which is better for intercepting and stuffing, while also having better comboability).
Kirby’s dtilt is the only tool that Kirby has that actually fits Softie’s description of best “anti approach” tools in the game. That’s it. This doesn’t mean that his other tools aren’t good or functional, because most are. However, it should be noted that this is the case for most of the other characters in the game. Certain factors about Kirby significantly lower his viability at top level play. I explain that very well in my previous post.
Also, his OoS options are not classified within Softie’s description of “anti approach” options since he is defining such tools strictly as options that “intercepts approaches.”
Aside from the fact that I was addressing a point from the previous post to where there wasn’t anything remotely resembling evidence; I explained rather clearly the problems with his argument throughout my post.
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I don’t mind debating with anyone, but posts such as yours, are literally ignoring or completely misunderstanding the words that I have posted. If you post like this again, then I will likely not respond to you, as it is a waste of my time.
Although my post was long, I make sure to organize it well and to keep it as simple (but also informative) as possible. I do this to avoid problems such as this. If you don’t understand something about my post, then please ask for clarification instead of ignoring it.
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