What buff needs jigglypuff?

[Kalierdarke]

The big word here is "if." IF you hit somebody with it, they could die at 39%, but that's never going to happen. That's why we want it buffed. It's a good idea on paper, much like a lot of Jigglypuff's moves, but the execution of it is so poor that the chances of you doing anything with the damn move are nonexistent. The only Mac you'll be hitting down smash on is a For Glory Mac. In a serious match, you're going to get shielded, and most likely punished, every time.
All these hypothetical situations are dandy and all, but I'm afraid that they're not going to come to fruition as long as this pathetic excuse for a move stays the way it is.

Oh, I agree, it needs a buff, but what needs to be buffed about it is the speed. It's at least useable if you can get a read off a predictable opponent though in its current state. It just isn't melee/brawl sing level bad.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Oh, I agree, it needs a buff, but what needs to be buffed about it is the speed. It's at least useable if you can get a read off a predictable opponent though in its current state. It just isn't melee/brawl sing level bad.

I think they're equally bad. Sing might be slightly better. If I down smash you at 100%, you MIGHT die, if I put you to sleep at 100%, you're most likely going to die, unless you're Boss.

 

[Kalierdarke]

I think they're equally bad. Sing might be slightly better. If I down smash you at 100%, you MIGHT die, if I put you to sleep at 100%, you're most likely going to die, unless you're Boss.

Sing is at least more useable now than in previous games, and certainly better than the current state of downsmash because you have better chances to make use of it on a read than you do downsmash. plus most people don't expect a random sing.

And there's nothing funnier than landing sing on a mid-dash sonic and watching him skid across the stage asleep.

 

[Desu~]

And THAT is why we all should just give up on Jiggs.

We did all we could guys.

 

[TimG57867]

Given Kirby's awful air speed, it's fun messing with Jigglypuff once in a while and getting to weave in and out and gimp easily. But I think it's universally agreed that she's lacking. Here's stuff I wouldn't mind seeing:

• One buff I'd like to see Jigglypuff get is less end lag on Rest, but not for reason you might think. Given its power, it shouldn't be something you can just carelessly toss out, but at the same time, I always found it bizarre how it has so much end lag that you can end up getting punished for HITTING it. I mean its a huge enough gamble as it so why give Jigglypuff players even less incentive to use it? I think it should have the sleeping frames cut so that while it still gives your opponent ample time to punish you for a miss, you'll be able to wake up in time if you as actually hit them.

• Allow Jigglypuff to hit an opponent with Rollout off stage without losing a stock for it. It'd make recovering less stressful for her.
• Lower the base knockback on one of her throws (probably Down or Forward Throw) so she can combo out of it and make her Back Throw kill on a ledge. When you have the second lowest run speed in the game, I'd like think it'd be fair to get more than 10% off a grab when you finally get one.
• Cut the startup on F-Smash and Up-Smash, with range that pitiful they don't need to be so slow.
• Cut Sing's startup to Frame 17-20. That way it'd be easy to catch the opponent by surprise.
• Cut some endlag on either F-Air so that she can do two on a short hop.

Not holding my breath these buffs since they didn't even buff her customs in 1.1.1 patch, but if they finally decide to help the Balloon Pokemon out, this would be a good place to start.

 

[Kalierdarke]

• Cut Sing's startup to Frame 17-20. That way it'd be easy to catch the opponent by surprise.

More important would be to reduce the endlag after the last hitbox of it so if you land it you have a better chance to make use of it.

 

[I_am_SK]

Throw combos would be nice. Really nice. Usable smashes would also be great.

Make sing shield cancel and activate frame 4! Lol

 

[Furret24]

Throw combos would be nice. Really nice. Usable smashes would also be great.

Make sing shield cancel and activate frame 4! Lol

Fsmash is decent. It can kill before 110%, has a lingering hitbox, good range, and does nice damage. I wish her other smashes weren't garbage though.

I'd also like it if she got her kill throw back, along with a combo throw. It would really help her grab game, which is important in Smash 4 since nearly every character comes with a killing and combo throw.

 

[Stickmanlolz]

Bair needs more disjoint+range and to have fewer startup/ending frames

 

[GeeHaus]

Up: 10%, no follow-ups. Does not kill.
Down: 10%, no follow-ups. Does not kill.
Back: 10%, no follow-ups. Does not kill.
Forward: 10%, no follow-ups. Does not kill.

Behold, Jigglypuff's greatest weakness. A character who struggles with shields so much should not be subjected to this.

Oh, and give us our goddamn jab reset back.

 

[BenBurt1000]

I am disappointed that the developers did almost nothing to help Jigglypuff.
I'd suggest giving Rest the Sakurai angle back, as it did in SSBM, because the (almost) vertical angle introduced in Brawl is pretty much useless now with the possibility of Blast KOs occurring off the upper blast line. (This will also help against fast-fallers like Fox and Captain Falcon, who are harder to KO vertically)
Also, they should definitely reduce the ending lag of the aerials.

 

[Stickmanlolz]

I am disappointed that the developers did almost nothing to help Jigglypuff.
I'd suggest giving Rest the Sakurai angle back, as it did in SSBM, because the (almost) vertical angle introduced in Brawl is pretty much useless now with the possibility of Blast KOs occurring off the upper blast line. (This will also help against fast-fallers like Fox and Captain Falcon, who are harder to KO vertically)
Also, they should definitely reduce the ending lag of the aerials.

The lag is not that bad it might actually help Jigglypuff because of all of the people who run in because they think the move is done, but the hitbox is still active. Plus she can just weave in and out with her amazing air speed.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Puff's aerials don't have much endlag. Nair has 14 frames, fair has 17, upair has 24, bair has 27. For comparison, Sheik has 32 on her bair and 28 on her fair.

 

[Furret24]

Puff's aerials don't have much endlag. Nair has 14 frames, fair has 17, upair has 24, bair has 27. For comparison, Sheik has 32 on her bair and 28 on her fair.

The only logical thing to do now is nerf Jigglypuff. That endlag makes her air game OP.

 

[Yoshister]

I think Jigglypuff's sing should have a lasting sleep-box, since I've whiffed it so often because there's so much lag between the sleep-boxes.

 

[I_am_SK]

I am disappointed that the developers did almost nothing to help Jigglypuff.
I'd suggest giving Rest the Sakurai angle back, as it did in SSBM, because the (almost) vertical angle introduced in Brawl is pretty much useless now with the possibility of Blast KOs occurring off the upper blast line. (This will also help against fast-fallers like Fox and Captain Falcon, who are harder to KO vertically)
Also, they should definitely reduce the ending lag of the aerials.

Noooooooo
I don't want to be punished for hitting rest

 

[Furret24]

Noooooooo
I don't want to be punished for hitting rest

You already are though.

 

[I_am_SK]

You already are though.

Sad but true. At least I have a chance at getting away with it though...

 

[donyavierre]

IMO the only thing Jigglypuff really needs is a decent approach tool, which in melee was that godlike bair:

In sm4sh, you just save bairs to KO your opponent, which isn't bad, but it isn't that big, and nothing else have a decent hitbox in Jigglypuff, there are not safe approach options in jiggs. I'm not saying "make it sooo disjointed like melee, that's the only way" but come on, it can be bigger than the actual one. I prefer moves that might not kill but sure will connect, than the ones that will never

 

[Uncle Tonkle]

Give us Falcon upair and I'm good to go.