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what are your main issues with ultimate

Ez Quinn

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I, know. He literally is Mario, they are the same person, but he was in.....Tetris? Idk what game he “starred” in, but it was enough to say he had his own game, thus he has his own series and is different than the rest of the Mario cast
 

DelugeFGC

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I, know. He literally is Mario, they are the same person, but he was in.....Tetris? Idk what game he “starred” in, but it was enough to say he had his own game, thus he has his own series and is different than the rest of the Mario cast
His game was literally called Dr. Mario. It's very similar to Tetris, but it has its own gimmick based around viruses and such that sets it apart. I always liked DM more than Tetris coming up.
 

Ez Quinn

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That said, there are other characters who 'starred in their own game' so to speak who didn't get unique logos. Toon and Young Link being easy examples.

Fair enough but since they are reincarnations Of link I guess they’re still link? Idk you make a good point.
Although technically you could argue that since it’s the legend of Zelda, links not the main character but since they appear in her games they are classified as Zelda characters?
The argument would be dismal at best
 

DelugeFGC

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Fair enough but since they are reincarnations Of link I guess they’re still link? Idk you make a good point.
Although technically you could argue that since it’s the legend of Zelda, links not the main character but since they appear in her games they are classified as Zelda characters?
The argument would be dismal at best
Another is Diddy Kong. Ness and Lucas.
 

Arthur97

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Actually Doc can’t be an echo because he had his own base game (technically). He has his own smash logo and everything so sakurai and Nintendo said, this can’t be an echo because he’s from a different series. And it’s true. If they starred in a game, they get their own smash logo
He shares his logo with the rest of the Mario fighters.
Yes but at the same time, he IS just Mario with a different life story. I'm fine with him being the way he is (barring his recovery, it's pointlessly bad for no real reason I can see) for the most part.. but I can also see why people think this way.
Actually, he's probably just Mario in one of his hobbies like being a professional golfer or tennis player. He could be an alternate Mario I guess, but it wouldn't be the first time he managed something with much less practice than something like that would actually take.
 

Aurane

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My only issue is that there are certain characters that obviously need buffs and they still don't have them. Nothing that would make me hate the game. But still.
 

DelugeFGC

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He shares his logo with the rest of the Mario fighters.

Actually, he's probably just Mario in one of his hobbies like being a professional golfer or tennis player. He could be an alternate Mario I guess, but it wouldn't be the first time he managed something with much less practice than something like that would actually take.
He's different. In one of his Smash descriptions it even made note of why he was slower due to going to medical school and such. It's not just Mario in weighted clothes, it's a Mario with a different life / path.
 

Arthur97

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He's different. In one of his Smash descriptions it even made note of why he was slower due to going to medical school and such. It's not just Mario in weighted clothes, it's a Mario with a different life / path.
Pretty sure it was joke about his supposed PhD weighing him down. Normal Mario could simply leave it at home and not carry the excessively heavy document around with him.
 

DelugeFGC

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"There's hardly any difference in the abilities of Mario and Dr. Mario, so choosing is largely a matter of taste. Dr. Mario is a tad slower due to his lack of exercise, but his Megavitamins pack a bit more punch than Mario's Fireballs. The capsules travel on a unique trajectory and make a distinct sound on impact."

"Immaculate in his medical garb, Dr. Mario destroys killer viruses with his amazing vitamin capsules. With his dedicated nurse, Princess Peach, at his side, Dr. Mario spends day and night in his laboratory working on new miracle cures. Somehow he's managed to keep up with all the new viruses that have arisen over the years."


They're different versions of Mario.
 
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viras

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I think everyones main issue with the gamer are
1. The buffer system
2. The online.
at least for me but i guess removing the buffer would just make it melee. Plus airdodging suck even more in this game. Guessing its the lag that comes with it.
 

Jaro235

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I just feel like aside from the GSP system, online feels empty. There is no squad strike mode, no special events, and you can’t even bet on people in spectator mode. Lag and GSP are not the only problems with online.

Aside from that, I thought that World of Light was a letdown because it was just a better version of event mode. I wanted something like Subspace or even something like Melee’s adventure mode. Playing as the fighters in a beat’em up environment has always appealed to me, but the closest I can get to it is playing against seven other CPUs in a regular match.

Finally, I think the single player modes just lack options. I know that is not where most people spend there time when playing Smash, but all you have is Classic mode and 3 mob smash modes and that is it. Ultimate is a great game overall, but it has a lot of flaws that people seem to overlook too much.
 

DelugeFGC

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I don't think that many people have an issue with the buffer system, at least in higher level play. It's literally the direct source of a lot of cool ass tech that lets us do some pretty fire things, and it's one of the contributing factors to the competitive value of this game. It may take getting used to, but it's not inhibiting anything.. it's actually raising the bar of what you can do.

At first people were confused by it, but once people hit the lab and began figuring it out, that's a complaint I stopped hearing. I love Ult's buffer system, I just wish they'd drop the buffer window from 10 to maybe 8 frames.
 
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viras

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I don't think that many people have an issue with the buffer system, at least in higher level play. It's literally the direct source of a lot of cool *** tech that lets us do some pretty fire things, and it's one of the contributing factors to the competitive value of this game. It may take getting used to, but it's not inhibiting anything.. it's actually raising the bar of what you can do.

At first people were confused by it, but once people hit the lab and began figuring it out, that's a complaint I stopped hearing. I love Ult's buffer system, I just wish they'd drop the buffer window from 10 to maybe 8 frames.
i guess so, i haven't really been hearing about the buffer system either. Just going off of acouple months ago
 

DelugeFGC

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i guess so, i haven't really been hearing about the buffer system either. Just going off of acouple months ago
I highly recommend looking into things such at attack cancelling, pivot cancels, RC Grab Boosts, tilt NAir turnarounds.. etc. It's all invaluable stuff that goes a long way in gameplay, even in less serious play simply learning it will give you a better understanding of Ult's complex buffer system and could make you feel more comfortable with it.

I do wish they'd lower the buffer window a couple frames, but the system is a good thing and it allows competitive depth without making an arbitrary mechanical barrier (button mashing) that's so high it alienates new players and destroys hands like in Melee. That's not to say it's all super simple and baby easy, but compared to something like a Drill Shine.. well, yeah. That's not me saying Melee's is better, I actually think that skill floor in competitive play hurts the game in terms of its overall reach and puts off new blood. Ultimate is doing a good job of giving me the same sort of competitive experience and depth, but as long as I stretch my hands I don't walk away from longer locals and such feeling like my hands are about to fall off.

Which is another reason it's topped Melee for me personally.
 
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viras

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I highly recommend looking into things such at attack cancelling, pivot cancels, RC Grab Boosts, tilt NAir turnarounds.. etc. It's all invaluable stuff that goes a long way in gameplay, even in less serious play simply learning it will give you a better understanding of Ult's complex buffer system and could make you feel more comfortable with it.

I do wish they'd lower the buffer window a couple frames, but the system is a good thing and it allows competitive depth without making an arbitrary mechanical barrier (button mashing) that's so high it alienates new players and destroys hands like in Melee. That's not to say it's all super simple and baby easy, but compared to something like a Drill Shine.. well, yeah. That's not me saying Melee's is better, I actually think that skill floor in competitive play hurts the game in terms of its overall reach and puts off new blood.
Definitely gonna research them in depth more. I've most definitely pulled all of these things off but don't know the actual meaning of em and would know what they were. Especially the buffer window in ult.
 

DelugeFGC

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Once you become comfortable within the system, you'll start to get an understanding for the game that makes you kind of appreciate everything more and a lot of stuff becomes way more intuitive to execute and do.
 

Xelrog

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I don't really get the complaints about GSP. If you don't like the number, then just ignore it. Your experience will be no worse for the fact--exactly the same as it would be did GSP not exist.

On Smash Run... yeah, I mean, obviously it was way better than the stupid board game mode, but how replayable was it, really? It was just one map to run around. That to me really sounds like it would be cool, well... once. And that's it. Did a bunch of people really play the mode REGULARLY with friends, or anything?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Does anyone else find it weird that Ken is the only Echo Fighter who doesn't completely copy someone else's attributes? When compared to Ryu, he's 1.1x faster on the ground. And when you look at Dr. Mario, he's slower than Mario, AND not classified as an Echo Fighter.
 
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DelugeFGC

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Figures, thanks for the advice. Any advice on the falcon matchup?
I'll DM you if you have anymore questions as to not derail the thread.

I don't really get the complaints about GSP. If you don't like the number, then just ignore it. Your experience will be no worse for the fact--exactly the same as it would be did GSP not exist.

On Smash Run... yeah, I mean, obviously it was way better than the stupid board game mode, but how replayable was it, really? It was just one map to run around. That to me really sounds like it would be cool, well... once. And that's it. Did a bunch of people really play the mode REGULARLY with friends, or anything?
The complaints about GSP have nothing to do with that. It doesn't work like the system is clearly intended to, and even the way it way intended to work is pretty screwed. GSP is in no way a measure of skill.. or ANYTHING really, and that's a problem. It's a literal arbitrary number in a pool of arbitrary numbers, even the Ult matchmaking system doesn't give a hoot about it because it'll pair players with wildly varying GSP rankings in matches. That's not even getting into the problems people tend to have at lower GSP (2.5M or less) with rulesets and such, people cheesing for it, the general culture GSP is causing around how people play Elite Smash, the lag.. quickplay and ES are inexcusably abysmal. GSP is but one of many causes. This is the ONLY way to play quick matches of any kind, any there's no designation between casual or competitive play. It's a total mess.

Battle Arenas are okay, but still need some work.

Does anyone else find it weird that Ken is the only Echo Fighter who doesn't completely copy someone else's attributes? When compared to Ryu, he's 1.1x faster on the ground. And when you look at Dr. Mario, he's slower than Mario, AND not classified as an Echo Fighter.
Ken and Ryu both I have a lot of issues with, but Ken in particular is by far the more insulting of the two. He feels like one of the laziest echo's we've ever gotten, such small things could've gone a long way to make him feel less.. atrocious.
 
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Arthur97

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Does anyone else find it weird that Ken is the only Echo Fighter who doesn't completely copy someone else's attributes? When compared to Ryu, he's 1.1x faster on the ground. And when you look at Dr. Mario, he's slower than Mario, AND not classified as an Echo Fighter.
Yes. That feeds into the lack of consistency. They may have just called him one to justify his inclusion as the first.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Yes. That feeds into the lack of consistency. They may have just called him one to justify his inclusion as the first.
Whatever the reason, Ken just doesn't feel like an Echo Fighter if his overall mobility is better than that of Ryu's. And if both fighters have no differences in their attacks, then that basically makes using Ryu pointless.

Maybe in terms of balance, Ryu's attacks would hit harder than Ken's attacks, simply to compensate for his slower overall mobility.
 

DelugeFGC

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Whatever the reason, Ken just doesn't feel like an Echo Fighter if his overall mobility is better than that of Ryu's. And if both fighters have no differences in their attacks, then that basically makes using Ryu pointless.

Maybe in terms of balance, Ryu's attacks would hit harder than Ken's attacks, simply to compensate for his slower overall mobility.
Ken's Up B is totally useless compared to Ryu's.

That's a difference.. I guess.
 
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Arthur97

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I also don't like Ken's side special. Ryu's can at least send them more than a foot away.
 

DelugeFGC

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I don't like how their side special, neutral special and up special are all nerfed compared to the stick combo versions and basically not worth using. You can just tell with things like the Side B the stick combo version was clearly the version intended for their combos, and it's irritating.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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I don't like how their side special, neutral special and up special are all nerfed compared to the stick combo versions and basically not worth using.
The Control Stick combinations alone are pretty much why I never bothered to purchase Ryu for Smash 3DS / Wii U.
 

DelugeFGC

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The Control Stick combinations alone are pretty much why I never bothered to purchase Ryu for Smash 3DS / Wii U.
The only one with any real differences I know of is the neutral B one as I'm not super familiar with them, but the way they're set up with their combo game and such.. it's just clear it was intended to use them with the arcade stick / d-pad move layouts. It makes me mess up with them a lot, as does the weird always facing the opponent decision.
 
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Arthur97

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Shoryuken is clearly stronger with the heavy input (I think weak input is the strength of strong button press). Side specials can go longer maybe in addition to damage.
 

DelugeFGC

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And in a game like Smash, that's a bit odd to me. I would've understood maybe having ONE move be stronger OR a unique move be on the directional input combo moves, but the rest just being alternate versions of doing the same B special moves. Having them nearly all outside of Focus Kick be like that PLUS having a unique move.. it's just a bit too much in Smash.
 
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Arthur97

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And in a game like Smash, that's a bit odd to me. I would've understood maybe having ONE move be stronger OR a unique move be on the directional input combo moves, but the rest just being alternate versions of doing the same B special moves. Having them nearly all outside of Focus Kick be like that PLUS having a unique move.. it's just a bit too much in Smash.
Sakurai played SF when he was younger. He may be a bit biased.
 

DelugeFGC

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Sakurai played SF when he was younger. He may be a bit biased.
Yeah but he set out to make Smash vastly different from traditional fighters when he was cooking the game up over two decades ago.. and greatly succeeded, so why he'd try to shoehorn something of that vein into Smash on down the line is really bizarre.
 
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Xelrog

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I would rather other echo fighters were made as unique as Ken rather than the other way around.
 

Arthur97

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Well, yes, that would be ideal, and it's not like they went around mass producing them. They couldn't have spared at least a few more attribute adjustments before launch?
 

Xelrog

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I'm just hoping they add more over time. I'm not convinced they will yet.

Also, I actually find arenas to have more problems than quickplay by a mile. Way more lag, UI issues, getting kicked out of queue, etc. etc.
 

Arthur97

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My main issue with arenas is I'm just nervous about joining them like I'd mess up the balance or something.
 

DelugeFGC

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Make two person limit BA's with '1v1' in the name somewhere and just sit & wait. Kick laggers and such.
 

Mogisthelioma

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1. Slight roster reservations that I won't go into detail about.
2. The Online
3. Music tracks that I feel are missing
4. The Online again
5. Spirits mode is kind of lame
6. For the Love of God The Online is Terrible
 

MarioMeteor

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I can’t for the life of me wrap my head around why they would remove the option to share replays with your Friends. It seems like such a bassackwards thing to do.
 
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