What are some gameplay changes you'd like to see?

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DPKdebator

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#1
In Smash for Switch, what are some gameplay-based changes (non-character specific) that you'd like to see?

There are just a few things that I would like to have changed:
1. Make dashdancing easier (it's not really practical at the moment)
2. Allow a grab or smash attack out of jab (trying to quickly grab or do a smash attack out of a jab results in another jab, which is really annoying)
 
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#3
Like I continuously say, bring back the L-canceling, chaingrabs, and edge-hogging (oh my). Make it so container items never explode randomly. Hammers/Golden Hammers have a 0% chance of being defective. Remove the instance where one slowly shifts backwards from multihit jabs. That will be all, thank you.
 

Metalex

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#5
For general mechanics i think:

* Staling or rage needs to be toned down as it's very difficult to know exactly when combos/strings work or KO percents when you have to take 5 factors into account being rage, staling, DI, percentage as well as character weight. Makes it unnecessarily complex to decide when to go for certain options in a match.

* Diagonal up/down throws added might be a nice addition imo so there's 4 additional directions to throw in. Could be new additional throws or variations of existing ones. Might be for item tosses too although im not sure if that would be balanced for characters with items.

* Gliding should return! :4pit::4metaknight::4charizard:(:4palutena:?) But this time with limited duration or a fuel system like villagers or ROB's Up B to prevent stalling and making edgeguarding easier.

* Also, not a general mechanic but alot of characters could get smash aerials added (similiar to how Robins function).

For example Mario and Luigi should be able to do their famous Ground Pounds by doing a Smash Dair, while Bowser could get his Melee/Brawl slower falling multihit Dair as a normal Dair and his current meteor one as a Smash Dair etc
 
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MercuryPenny

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#8
Like I continuously say, bring back the L-canceling, chaingrabs, and edge-hogging (oh my). Make it so container items never explode randomly. Hammers/Golden Hammers have a 0% chance of being defective. Remove the instance where one slowly shifts backwards from multihit jabs. That will be all, thank you.
so literally just project m

----

each of the games so far has had different hitstun mechanics; 64 was ridiculous, melee dropped the amount you sustained and added di, brawl added hitstun cancelling (albeit horribly), smash 4 expanded on hitstun cancelling and made it sort of a middle ground between melee and brawl. each of these reflect how they're played - 64 is all about crazy af true combos, melee is all about di mixups and technical execution, brawl is dumb, and smash 4 is almost entirely about reads - though some true followups exist.

so the first thing on the table should be how it plays. each smash game has a different playstyle and is unique, even relative to each other, meaning if you don't like one smash game you can just jump over to another and see if you like it more. so what kind of meta do the other smash games not encompass? what kind of playerbase should it target? will it be mostly for casuals, competitive players, or both?

i love smash 4 with all my heart, but honestly i'd be more interested in how they could make another smash game unique, even if i don't end up liking how it plays.
 

Captain Phobos

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#9
Despite how cool l-canceling, wavedashing, and chaingrabs are, that kind of stuff should stay back in Melee and PM. What would be cool is if there could be an additional custom control that allows for wavedashing (similar to sidestepping) but with a different trigger or something like that.
 

FunAtParties

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#10
I'd rather just have everything autocancel. No need for it to be an extra input. They should bring back ledge cancelling for aerials too.

Aerial Smash attacks is a neat idea, I've kind of wanted it ever since playing Rivals of Aether, but much like RoA I'd prefer it to be exclusive to a character, and not available to the entire cast. It'd make sense for a character that can hover.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#12
How about making it possible to move with the Control Pad (or directional pad buttons) for all of the controller options. The solo Wii Remote for Brawl was a start, but it was possibly the worst control option to choose from with its limited buttons.

Want to perform a smash attack? Just tap the Control Pad twice at your desired direction, and press the standard attack button. You'd also dash by tapping twice.

And in terms of taunts, they could just be performed by pressing one button, and the direction that you're holding the Control Pad determines which taunt will be used.

Examples
ZL: Up Taunt
CP <> + ZL: Side Taunt
CP \/ + ZL: Down Taunt
 

Metalex

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#13
I think Custom Moves is a interesting concept that could be integrated better than it was in Smash 4. Including:

*All moves unlocked from the start or at least much less tedious / random to unlock

*The custom moves should be quickly selectable from the character select screen via a menu somewhere on your character portrait

*Usable online with anyone (could have two separate modes for 1v1, with and without i guess)

I know many are opposed to the idea of custom moves cause of some being unbalanced but just the three points above would make them feel more like part of the core game imo
 
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#14
How about making it possible to move with the Control Pad (or directional pad buttons) for all of the controller options. The solo Wii Remote for Brawl was a start, but it was possibly the worst control option to choose from with its limited buttons.

Want to perform a smash attack? Just tap the Control Pad twice at your desired direction, and press the standard attack button. You'd also dash by tapping twice.

And in terms of taunts, they could just be performed by pressing one button, and the direction that you're holding the Control Pad determines which taunt will be used.

Examples
ZL: Up Taunt
CP <> + ZL: Side Taunt
CP \/ + ZL: Down Taunt
I love the idea of being able to use the D-pad for something more practical than taunting! Also would be cool to have rage able to be turned on and off.
 

FunAtParties

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#15
I love the idea of being able to use the D-pad for something more practical than taunting! Also would be cool to have rage able to be turned on and off.
The game is designed around Rage. Without it the balance would be terrible. It's unfortunate because it's a terrible mechanic, but it's how it is.
 
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#16
Sigh. Yeah, I guess so. Now that I think about it, disabling rage would hurt characters heavyweights like Ike that can use rage to maximum potential and buff characters like Sheik that can combo like there's no tomorrow.

How do you think it could be changed?
 

Xeno610

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#17
Not really a gameplay change, but more so an addition: I want to see competitive versions of stages that aren't Final Destination variants. For Glory is a bad mode and one of the reasons why is because of FD, which favors certain characters and hurts others.
For larger stages like Temple or Palutena's Temple, they could either create a new design or take a certain part of the stage and remove stage hazards. For stages like Midgar, all it needs is to remove stage hazards and that's it.
There would be a problem of too many stages for sure and creating FD stages instead does save time, but it would be more exciting than just seeing Final Destination... it's not the only stage people play competitively, Sakurai.
 

Guybrush20X6

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#18
If nothing else, there should be a way to train with Rage. Training mode should leave all the mechanics bare to try out, seems like a silly omission.
 

SM Sola

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#21
Shield Tiers.

Some characters like Bowser get longer lasting shields while quicker characters get weaker shields.
Shields having unique attributes is a cool idea. I've always liked Yoshi's Egg shield, would love to see stuff like that on other characters.

How about making it possible to move with the Control Pad (or directional pad buttons) for all of the controller options. The solo Wii Remote for Brawl was a start, but it was possibly the worst control option to choose from with its limited buttons.

Want to perform a smash attack? Just tap the Control Pad twice at your desired direction, and press the standard attack button. You'd also dash by tapping twice.

And in terms of taunts, they could just be performed by pressing one button, and the direction that you're holding the Control Pad determines which taunt will be used.

Examples
ZL: Up Taunt
CP <> + ZL: Side Taunt
CP \/ + ZL: Down Taunt
I've always found it a little odd you've never been able to change movement schemes like this. I know a lot of people prefer arrows and automatically default to them the first time they play.
A small oversight with the system above is that you wouldn't be able to dash attack quickly. If they we're both controlled via double tap, you'd try to dash attack and immediately cancel it into a Forward Smash.

Something I'd personally really like to see is the separation of the Tilt and Smash buttons. Rivals of Aether did this, and while it takes some getting used to, I think it's a much more intuitive system that eliminates a lot of misinputs, especially for new players and panicky scrubs (such as myself).
 

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#22
I've always found it a little odd you've never been able to change movement schemes like this. I know a lot of people prefer arrows and automatically default to them the first time they play.
A small oversight with the system above is that you wouldn't be able to dash attack quickly. If they we're both controlled via double tap, you'd try to dash attack and immediately cancel it into a Forward Smash.
Yeah you'd have to wait a while (at least a second) before the dash attack can be executed.
 

LovinMitts

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#23
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-increased fall speed/gravity universally
-decreased landing lag near universally
-widened dashdance window
-buffs to less represented characters
-potential nerfs to the less honest options of certain top tiers
-the ability to edge cancel more stuff would be cool
-this one's a stretch, but I really think they should redo the way they implemented multihit moves to be similar to every previous game, since they're a lot jankier in smash 4 because of all that autolink business. It'd fix things like mario and samus up-b killing at really low %'s.
-increased shieldstun near universally to slightly nerf defensive options
-rage should either be adjusted to be less anti-competitive or removed entirely
-ledge trumping being removed would probably step on a lot of people's toes, but it's not a good mechanic. I can live with it though.

(inb4 'so u just want melee')

It's stupid for me to go into specifics here, especially since i doubt they'd change the balancing so dramatically, but I always jump at the opportunity to discuss character balance so..
Character specific shiz that comes to mind:
Cloud:
-Up air active frames reduced so that it no longer lasts longer than airdodges
-Limit cross slash made to be punishable on whiff/shield
-Limit climbhazzard has increased knockback on the initial hit to where it kills maybe 10% sooner (just for a fun reversal/oos option)

Diddy Kong:
-Down tilt hitbox shrunk slightly, comes out a frame or two later
-ftilt hitbox shrunk slightly

Captain Falcon:
-faster air speed
-faster startup on knee
(The engine changes I listed above already buff him considerably, but these make him actually good)

Mario:
-Down throw bkb increased, kbg decreased. (Low-Mid% followups are more consistent at the cost of silly 0-50% utilt combos)

Zelda:
-Din's fire moves slightly faster horizontally
-Up-b comes out a couple frames sooner (to make it better oos)
-Phantom charge can be stored with shield
-Phantom travels further with charge
-Aerial Din's fire no longer makes her helpless

Doc:
-Up-B goes slightly farther
-Cape stalls his momentum in the air similar to Mario

Falco:
-Back air hitbox lasts longer
-Shine kb scales enough to cause knockdowns at mid %'s
-Dair startup reduced
-Laser endlag slightly reduced

Little Mac:
-It now takes a lot more knockback for Little Mac to lose his KO Punch
-Aerial side-B distance reverted to what it was in 1.0.0
-Lower bkb on down throw to allow for low% followups

Robin:
-Reduced englag on Arcfire
-Increased kbg on Thoron
-Increased run speed
-Larger grab range
-Larger grab hitbox on Nosferatu

Jigglypuff:
-reduced startup on utilt
-reduced bkb and kbg on utilt
-rest kbg increased to kill ~10-15% earlier

Shulk:
-nair comes out a couple frames faster
-fair comes out 2-3 frames faster
-bair comes out 3-ish frames faster

Ganon:
-jab comes out a frame or two sooner
-please make up tilt a usable move for the love of god
-bigger uppercut hitbox on up-b
-larger hitbox on grounded wizkick
-grounded wizkick deals an extra 2% (this is solely for the purpose of having less moves clank it)
-slightly larger hitbox on ftilt (to make it a crazy spacing tool)
-slightly faster dash speed maybe?

Even crazier nonsense I thought of that would never make it in:
-tilt and smash variations on Villager's Loid Rocket
-Cloud being able to B-reverse Limit Charge
-Samus being able to charge neutral b in the air
-Land cancelling on Fox/Falco lasers
-Ganon having Wizard's Dropkick as his default down-B
-Sheik being able to cancel out of burst grenade early

Is this post excessive? Yeah probably. I'm not making you read it though
 
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tskidless

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#25
Ledge Trumping allies takes longer and I'm really tempted to say that you should be able to footstool them again but in all honesty I'd be way better at Footstooling my partner than my enemy.

For rage I already stated in a different topic that I think that it should return but be changed for each character. A character like Bowser who benefits from rage should start getting bonuses from it sooner like say at 50% and reach the cap sooner let's say 150% along with a powerful rage effect, but characters like Peach and Palutena should start getting rage bonuses later and get less bonuses so that it doesn't screw with their combo game. Lucario is of course one of the biggest abusers of rage due to it's Aura stacking with it and I believe that it should have the weakest bonus out of every character.
 
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