Weekly Match-up discussion 6: Snake

[Blad01]

I tried the combo. Dair to Grab is good, but DThrow to Stupper FSmash is escapable by DI + Jump. (Since the CPU Lvl9 has the time to airdodge before the Fsmash).

Also, i found a (possibly) new combo on Snake, i will do a thread on it, it's pretty interesting ^^

 

[Nic64]

ftilt's giant hitbox defeats everything Ganon can throw at Snake. A smart Snake will always be able to hit your first out of everything you go at him with.

Ganon's >B = Snake's utilt or ftilt.

ftilt won't knock ganon out of side B, at best you get the damage for the knee in before you get combo'd or tech chased, I don't recall if I've tested up tilt but I think you are right on that...still not particularly abuseable, and I don't think snakes are going to want to go around using their best KO option as a counter constantly. snake still has a better set of tools in general but this is closer than a lot of people think

Yeah, Ganon might be able to gimp Snake easily, but he has to get him off first.

oh ho

 

[Shadow Nataku]

I tried the combo. Dair to Grab is good, but DThrow to Stupper FSmash is escapable by DI + Jump. (Since the CPU Lvl9 has the time to airdodge before the Fsmash).

I've actually never seen the CPU react in time to the Stupper FSmash so I'm going have to check on that. Still being able to grab after a DAir is extremely useful.

 

[echos]

Snake is a more comfortable match up for me, my problem area with him is on the edge snake has a great edge game and ganon doesn't have a great amount of approaches from his hanging position. If you get up attack from the edge it will usually end in him blocking then grabbing you and putting you back off the stage. Rolling onto the stage can end in getting f-tilted as ganons roll can be pretty easy to see coming. If i get a window where a mortar is not falling from the sky i usually try to jump then down-b. Down-b eats through mortar witch is a good thing to utilize when the option is open. Probably the best approach is ledge hop air dodge while DIing toward the stage because it puts you back on stage with very little lag and i'll usually grab snake and back throw him off stage and then edge guard accordingly. dropping down and immediately using your up-b is another good option but if a mortar is in mid flight its more then likely gonna knock you out of the animation.

 

[Swoops]

Shadow, stop testing that stuff on cpus >.<. Really, any dthrow to ss fsmash I've tried can easily be DId. You're better off with DA, Gerudo, or Wizkick.

Nic, Ganon's Gerudo can be f-tilted pretty easily, it doesn't have much priority to go through moves. F-tilt is still a problem for Ganon.

As for getting back onto the ledge from hanging, learn ledgejump>gerudo as well. Try to get down ledge hop to airdodge to immediately get to standing on the ledge. U-air onto the ledge will help as well.

 

[echos]

As for getting back onto the ledge from hanging, learn ledgejump>gerudo as well. Try to get down ledge hop to airdodge to immediately get to standing on the ledge. U-air onto the ledge will help as well.

ledge jump garudo doesn't help if there are mortars dropping on you head and yeah ledge hop air dodge as i said is usually the best bet to go on.

 

[Nic64]

Nic, Ganon's Gerudo can be f-tilted pretty easily, it doesn't have much priority to go through moves. F-tilt is still a problem for Ganon.

I'm well aware that in general forward B is pretty easily swatted away, but ftilt only knocks ganon out of it if he hits with the invisible hitbox, which certainly isn't guaranteed if this is being done as a reaction, if the knee makes contact, ganon takes the damage but still grabs snake...probably why up tilt almost always works...

 

[Swoops]

ledge jump garudo doesn't help if there are mortars dropping on you head and yeah ledge hop air dodge as i said is usually the best bet to go on.

True, but ledge jump wizkick doesn't much either. You have to get above mortars from the ledge to actually get through them. Either option is probably just as viable, and I'm pretty guilty of using ledge jump>wizkick too much when I should use Gerudo. I just consider Gerudo a better option because of the lag on wizkick. The only downside to airdodge onto the ledge is the RCO lag. The 16 frames can be kind of nasty sometimes.

Pretty much the whole hitbox of the second part of snake's f-tilt destroys gerudo. You're right, first part gets eaten a lot though. Even jabs go through gerudo a lot of the time. It's just really risky to approach snake with gerudo, so be careful.

 

[Nic64]

Pretty much the whole hitbox of the second part of snake's f-tilt destroys gerudo. You're right, first part gets eaten a lot though. Even jabs go through gerudo a lot of the time. It's just really risky to approach snake with gerudo, so be careful.

of course, that's what really puts this in snake's favor IMO, ganondorf is better off not approaching with anything really and yet snake outcamps him, if it were just the tilts with no projectiles or mortar sliding it might not be such a problem, I just objected to the notion that ftilt alone will destroy you, a good snake utilizes many tools at once as often as possible

 

[echos]

True, but ledge jump wizkick doesn't much either. You have to get above mortars from the ledge to actually get through them. Either option is probably just as viable, and I'm pretty guilty of using ledge jump>wizkick too much when I should use Gerudo. I just consider Gerudo a better option because of the lag on wizkick. The only downside to airdodge onto the ledge is the RCO lag. The 16 frames can be kind of nasty sometimes.
Pretty much the whole hitbox of the second part of snake's f-tilt destroys gerudo. You're right, first part gets eaten a lot though. Even jabs go through gerudo a lot of the time. It's just really risky to approach snake with gerudo, so be careful.

both options have there pros and cons, down-b beats mortar if there is a open window to jump i usally will then i'll stall in the air with my second jump most snakes will see this as a chance to mortar you thats when i down-b the lag is killer though i agree. I think the ledge jump forward b is a more viable option if snake has not yet set up camp on the edge because there is still that distance from him and the edge