"We were mislead about the big 3"

[Dre89]

I keep hearing how Ridley was constantly teased and how the big 3 were handled badly. I'm just going to copy-paste what I wrote in the K. Rool thread with regards to Ridley being handed poorly.

He wasn't constantly teased. He was hinted to be a boss two times in an entire two years. It's even more trivial when you consider the fact that Sakurai posted pictures nearly every day of the year and yet he only got referenced twice in all that time. It was bat**** clear to anyone who wasn't an overspeculating-Smashboarder or anyone who didn't overstate the fact that he was the #5 request in the West, that he was going to be a boss from the start (ie. to the entire casual community).


People are conflating how much the big 3 were teased because they spent too much time speculating about it. Let's take a step back and look at how much they were actually 'teased' over the span of two years-

Ridley: Hinted to be a boss twice

Mewtwo: Greninja's hands didn't have webbing

K. Rool- Kritters in Smash Run and a kritter trophy.


None of that constitutes constant teasing, and in Ridley's case it was really obvious to the casual community that he was going to be a boss. It also didn't help that the Smashboards community got this idea in its collective head that a character not being disconfirmed was somehow a hint towards them being playable. That criteria was never stated by Sakurai and was manufactured by the community.

To Smashboarders it just seemed like more teasing because they spent so much time reading too much into it and devising theories about it.

 

[itsaxelol]

they didnt collectively get an idea. sakurai flat out said he would rather come out and say x is not a playable character in the game, otherwise people get their hopes up

theres where a lot of this comes from

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

I wouldn't even call the Greninja hand thing a Mewtwo tease. It was simply to make it less obvious that the shadow was Greninja. Webbing would have been a dead giveaway. Besides, outside of Melee, Mewtwo's fingers look like spheres.

 

[DreadToaster]

To this day, I still don't see Mewtwo in the Greninja shadow. When has Mewtwo ever hung upside down like a ninja?

And yeah, Sakurai's "teasing" is way overblown. People just read into things too much. Don't know how many people here read Song of Ice and Fire but a lot of the "evidence" for K. Rool and Ridley was very similar to "Benjen=Daario" in plausibility.

 

[Mr.Seven]

I think this whole "big three" thing is stupid. They're just three characters (two I even supported). Why should they hold more importance over others? To me, there will never be a "big three".

 

[itsaxelol]

I think this whole "big three" thing is stupid. They're just three characters (two I even supported). Why should they hold more importance over others? To me, there will never be a "big three".

what are you talking about? big three, as in the three most highly requested characters. why is that stupid or hard to understand
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ssb4-poll-lounge-poll-results-for-500-mark.324324/

 

[Mr.Seven]

what are you talking about? big three, as in the three most highly requested characters. why is that stupid or hard to understand
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ssb4-poll-lounge-poll-results-for-500-mark.324324/

A purple space dragon, an artificially-created pocket monster, and an obese crocodile. To me, and that's the key words, TO ME... They aren't all that special. Smash ain't a popularity contest. There are just characters to me that deserve no special recognition just because they're popular.

 

[DarkKry4]

I don't understand why ppl can't be happy with what we got instead of being unhappy about what we don't got. Its stupid.... the petitions and everything.

If you ain't happy, then spend your cash elsewhere if you please.

I even seen a Mewtwo fan pester Sakurai on twitter everyday (for months) by posting "Mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo" to him everyday. Talk about obsessed. and yet with all that pestering, Mewtwo still isn't in.....


if DLC is coming, he may have a chance though.

 

[itsaxelol]

A purple space dragon, an artificially-created pocket monster, and an obese crocodile. To me, and that's the key words, TO ME... They aren't all that special. Smash ain't a popularity contest. There are just characters to me that deserve no special recognition just because they're popular.

but it kind of is. when fan demand is that high, you shouldnt ignore it. and you just did a great job in describing 3 very different and unique characters, good job, another reason why people want them

I don't understand why ppl can't be happy with what we got instead of being unhappy about what we don't got. Its stupid.... the petitions and everything.

If you ain't happy, then spend your cash elsewhere if you please.

I even seen a Mewtwo fan pester Sakurai on twitter everyday (for months) by posting "Mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo mewtwo" to him everyday. Talk about obsessed. and yet with all that pestering, Mewtwo still isn't in.....


if DLC is coming, he may have a chance though.

7 year gaps between games make it kind of rough. ill be in my 30's by then, i wont care about smash as much. so its sad

 

[Sobreviviente]

A purple space dragon, an artificially-created pocket monster, and an obese crocodile. To me, and that's the key words, TO ME... They aren't all that special. Smash ain't a popularity contest. There are just characters to me that deserve no special recognition just because they're popular.

Is about the 3 most requested villians by fans, i dont think k rool is really that great either, but that doesnt count for the rest of the world.

 

[RazorsawTF]

what are you talking about? big three, as in the three most highly requested characters. why is that stupid or hard to understand
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ssb4-poll-lounge-poll-results-for-500-mark.324324/

polls on a message board, which are notoriously insular and self indulging and do a poor job of reflecting wider opinions.

 

[itsaxelol]

polls on a message board, referring to three highly requested characters when speaking to the smash community, on a message board. sounds ok to me

 

[Ridley22]

polls on a message board, which are notoriously insular and self indulging and do a poor job of reflecting wider opinions.

You're right, but if we go by the general audience Goku and Batman would be the most popular characters. The people on these boards are the only ones that really care about characters and are the people that will continue to play the game for years. The majority of consumers will buy the game no matter what and not even know who half the characters are. Why not please to your most loyal fanbases that truly cares about these things?

 

[Cyberguy64]

I don't get why people are so Anti-The Big Three.

You don't want the character in. Fine. But why are you so against the people who do want them in? Like it or not, these people have history, notoriety, and popularity in the series they're from, and could all bring something new to the smash table (As opposed to clones, who are literally retreads of old ideas.... And maybe not Mewtwo either, come to think of it. Still relatively new, though.)

 

[PokéMurio]

Btw has anyone seen a trophy of anyone in "big 3" in SSB3DS?

 

[Morbi]

I agree with the sentiment that we were not mislead about their inclusions; however, I would argue that the "teases" were not handled properly either. Or in the case of Greninja/Mewtwo, that animation was just unprofessional.

 

[EmeraldDragonair]

Um... Sakurai explicitly stated that he was considering Mewtwo in an interview so I think we have fair reason to consider him likely, although I agree about Ridley

 

[RazorsawTF]

You're right, but if we go by the general audience Goku and Batman would be the most popular characters. The people on these boards are the only ones that really care about characters and are the people that will continue to play the game for years. The majority of consumers will buy the game no matter what and not even know who half the characters are. Why not please to your most loyal fanbases that truly cares about these things?

I think it's really presumptuous to say that only people on certain message boards are the ones who really care about Nintendo, especially since the majority of the people on it are older fans. You need no more proof of this fact than the people who constantly disparage Lucario and wondering while he's even in here over Mewtwo, while ignoring the fact that he's a huge hit with a lot of fans, especially younger ones.

 

[itsaxelol]

You're right, but if we go by the general audience Goku and Batman would be the most popular characters. The people on these boards are the only ones that really care about characters and are the people that will continue to play the game for years. The majority of consumers will buy the game no matter what and not even know who half the characters are. Why not please to your most loyal fanbases that truly cares about these things?

there really isnt anything to argue. i really cant believe people are doubting the popularity of rid mewtwo and rool. where have you guys been these past few years lol. there was no reason to neglect them. but yea, people are going to buy the game regardless because of smash

but really, your last line, "Why not please to your most loyal fanbases that truly cares about these things".... bro... we're on smashboards.. these guys donated 100k to revive melee. they modded brawl to enjoy it even more. they host smash brothers tournaments. give nintendo money for controllers that are 14 years old. who is more loyal than the people that come on here and discuss smash every day? the kid whose parent is going to get if for him if he aces his big spelling test?

 

[RazorsawTF]

there really isnt anything to argue. i really cant believe people are doubting the popularity of rid mewtwo and rool. where have you guys been these past few years lol. there was no reason to neglect them. but yea, people are going to buy the game regardless because of smash

but really, your last line, "Why not please to your most loyal fanbases that truly cares about these things".... bro... we're on smashboards.. these guys donated 100k to revive melee. they modded brawl to enjoy it even more. they host smash brothers tournaments. give nintendo money for controllers that are 14 years old. who is more loyal than the people that come on here and discuss smash every day? the kid whose parent is going to get if for him if he aces his big spelling test?

Let me use another fandom as an example. The Transformers fandom is very strongly biased towards the first generation of TFs. They routinely shell out for hugely expensive Masterpiece releases, buy 3rd party toys that cost up to 600 dollars or more, and that's not to mention their emphasis on comics and other nostalgia-driven material they spend money on.

The Transformers fandom accounts for 25 percent of the overall revenue the franchise draws in annually. The 75 % that don't spend money on the movie merchandise, figures, and other material that have little to do with Generation One.

The core Smash fanbase, and largely most fanbases in general, are largely the same phenomenon at work.

 

[Cyberguy64]

there really isnt anything to argue. i really cant believe people are doubting the popularity of rid mewtwo and rool. where have you guys been these past few years lol. there was no reason to neglect them. but yea, people are going to buy the game regardless because of smash

but really, your last line, "Why not please to your most loyal fanbases that truly cares about these things".... bro... we're on smashboards.. these guys donated 100k to revive melee. they modded brawl to enjoy it even more. they host smash brothers tournaments. give nintendo money for controllers that are 14 years old. who is more loyal than the people that come on here and discuss smash every day? the kid whose parent is going to get if for him if he aces his big spelling test?

I envy that kid. My parents never gave me games for stuff like that.

I agree that the younger generation and the elder generation must be satiated. It just feels like Nintendo put all their money on the oldbies being satiated with the veterans, the Pac-Mega men, and DHD, then put the rest of their eggs in the youth's basket.

...To be honest, it does seem like a working strategy... pander to the newbies to get them to stick around.... Ugh. It still feels like franchise are being neglected though. It's too soon to tell how this will play out. It's literally day one.

 

[NintenRob]

The Ridley teasing felt very unnessary and if he was teased as boss when Pyrosphere was first shown then so was Palutena and Dark Pit.

However, when people say that Sakurai has constantly teased Mewtwo, I can't help but think that it is a load of bullcrap. People kept ignoring the fact he was low priority in Brawl and kept acting like he was the most likely character and was a shoo-in from the start, they should be dissappointed.

Kremlings gave hope for K Rool but it wasn't really teasing him.

 

[Cyberguy64]

Let me use another fandom as an example. The Transformers fandom is very strongly biased towards the first generation of TFs. They routinely shell out for hugely expensive Masterpiece releases, buy 3rd party toys that cost up to 600 dollars or more, and that's not to mention their emphasis on comics and other nostalgia-driven material they spend money on.

The Transformers fandom accounts for 25 percent of the overall revenue the franchise draws in annually. The 75 % that don't spend money on the movie merchandise, figures, and other material that have little to do with Generation One.

The core Smash fanbase, and largely most fanbases in general, are largely the same phenomenon at work.

You raise a valid point. Of course, Smash is also a good way to get the kids interested in the classics. I never gave a crap about Metroid as a kid, but Samus ended up being one of my favorite characters and I got interested in the rest of the franchise. If you just give kids more of the same, you never broaden your market.

It's like what the Ninja Turtles are doing now, advertising multiple stages of the franchise to sell to kids and adults. Adults love having their childhood brought back, and the kids are like "Ninja turtles! Who cares if they're from the good old show, the good new show or the new crappy movie?" And they can enjoy it all.

 

[RazorsawTF]

I'm not saying that's more of the same. In fact, I'm largely saying it isn't. Look at what forms the "main line" of Transformers has taken in the past several years. The very cartoony Animated, the more serious Transformers Prime, and the movieverse, which has thoroughly reinvented itself and is now emphasizing enormous fire breathing dinosaurs.

and TMNT, while having plenty of retro nods, has more emphasis on the new. Releasing DVD sets, including a few cameos and nods, and releasing a handful of retro figures is not exactly a marketing zeitgeist.

 

[KingBroly]

I don't see how K. Rool was advertised or teased. People are reaching on that one.

Now, for the Greninja trailer, part of me, for like half a second thought Mewtwo, but I remembered they JUST showed off Charizard, and I doubt they'd do a trailer for 2 veterans.

Ridley...just...seriously...everything about Ridley has been a kick in the balls.

 

[Cyberguy64]

I'm not saying that's more of the same. In fact, I'm largely saying it isn't. Look at what forms the "main line" of Transformers has taken in the past several years. The very cartoony Animated, the more serious Transformers Prime, and the movieverse, which has thoroughly reinvented itself and is now emphasizing enormous fire breathing dinosaurs.

and TMNT, while having plenty of retro nods, has more emphasis on the new. Releasing DVD sets, including a few cameos and nods, and releasing a handful of retro figures is not exactly a marketing zeitgeist.

You obviously haven't passed a toy isle/birthday party supply isle/kids clothes section recently.

 

[RazorsawTF]

Not really. Not when this is more or less how it went.

"Hey, you guys like the Yellow Devil. He's a cool boss. There will be other bosses. Here's another character who might be a boss nudge nudge wink wink."

You need to do some serious mental gymnastics to jump from thinking he's talking about a boss to thinking he's talking about a playable fighter.

 

[RazorsawTF]

You obviously haven't past a toy isle/birthday party supply isle/kids clothes section recently.

Yes I have?

The majority of the toys there are for the movie and the Nickelodeon cartoon. I see significantly far less material marketed towards the 1984 show or Mirage comic.

 

[SaucyDancer]

With Mewtwo, Sakurai did say "we are thinking about it". Coming from a man who makes a point on not creating false speculation this is pretty unprofessional.

 

[Cyberguy64]

Not really. Not when this is more or less how it went.

"Hey, you guys like the Yellow Devil. He's a cool boss. There will be other bosses. Here's another character who might be a boss nudge nudge wink wink."

You need to do some serious mental gymnastics to jump from thinking he's talking about a boss to thinking he's talking about a playable fighter.

There was a crap-ton more to it then that, specifically relating to everything that happened later.

The yellow devil was teased, and then shown in the nano-gel as a boss. Ridley was teased, and then nothing happened for over a year. Toon Link was teased as a decoration, and then made to be playable instead. Palutana was teased as a decoration, and then made to be playable instead. Assist Trophies are spelled out to not be playable, even when it's obvious. Ridley was the one off. There's a reason to be suspicious. Especially when twitter groups started trolling the suspicious fans.

 

[AzureFlame4]

You know who was really teased and no one believed it? Dark Pit.

Yeah, "the big three" wasn't really teased at all, but getting hyped over it is part of the fun of speculating the next smash. I remember wondering who would be in when Brawl was announced and hoping for a certain few characters that are still in. Some people definitely took their hype too far though. When you're talking about crying over a character not being in and stuff like that you might be a little too invested. To each their own though.

 

[Cyberguy64]

Yes I have?

The majority of the toys there are for the movie and the Nickelodeon cartoon. I see significantly far less material marketed towards the 1984 show or Mirage comic.

You'd make it sound like the stuff was only marketed to adults. The point I was making is that theres still a sizable amount of the old stuff being marketed to kids that you're dismissing, and the kids are buying it!

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

With Mewtwo, Sakurai did say "we are thinking about it". Coming from a man who makes a point on not creating false speculation this is pretty unprofessional.

What?

The man said that he was thinking about it. How is that a tease? The roster was not set in stone quite yet. He was seriously considering it. I don't understand the point you're getting at.

 

[Cold Fusion]

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ GIVE ME RIDLEY OR GIVE ME DEATH ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

 

[RazorsawTF]

There was a crap-ton more to it then that, specifically relating to everything that happened later.

The yellow devil was teased, and then shown in the nano-gel. Ridley was teased, and then nothing happened for over a year. Toon Link was teased as a decoration, and then made to be playable instead. Palutana was teased as a decoration, and then made to be playable instead. Assist Trophies are spelled out to not be playable, even when it's obvious. Ridley was the one off. There's a reason to be suspicious. Especially when twitter groups started trolling the suspicious fans.

... That's still a huge leap to make. By that logic, the Yellow Devil himself had as much chance to be playable, and yet no one was making that flying logistical leap.

And what do you mean by twitter groups? Nintendo has no responsibility to tie into what fans do to other fans.

 

[SaucyDancer]

What?

The man said that he was thinking about it. How is that a tease? The roster was not set in stone quite yet. He was seriously considering it. I don't understand the point you're getting at.

He confirmed the roster was decided in 2012. One year before he said that quote. There was also no reason to say that and it was obvious it would create speculation. Something he apparently dislikes.

 

[Cyberguy64]

... That's still a huge leap to make. By that logic, the Yellow Devil himself had as much chance to be playable, and yet no one was making that flying logistical leap.

And what do you mean by twitter groups? Nintendo has no responsibility to tie into what fans do to other fans.

I realized that you'd probably take that the wrong way, and since I can't control how you'll take things, I went back and specified, "As a boss." for Yellow Devil. The point is, Sakurai spells out what a character is, unless they're the beloved Ridley, apparently.

And they were Official Nintendo Twitters. PR stuff. Hardly professional unless the big guy is in.

He confirmed the roster was decided in 2012. One year before he said that quote. There was also no reason to say that and it was obvious it would create speculation. Something he apparently dislikes.

Emphasis on "apparently."

 

[RazorsawTF]

And they were Official Nintendo Twitters. PR stuff. Hardly professional unless the big guy is in.

without knowing what was said to whom I have no idea how I'm supposed to judge this.

You'd make it sound like the stuff was only marketed to adults. The point I was making is that theres still a sizable amount of the old stuff being marketed to kids that you're dismissing, and the kids are buying it!

where we seem to be disagreeing is what constitutes "sizable".

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

He confirmed the roster was decided in 2012. One year before he said that quote. There was also no reason to say that and it was obvious it would create speculation. Something he apparently dislikes.

Still don't see how Sakurai is at fault for answering a question a person asked him. That is everyone else's fault for completey over thinking Sakurai's words.

Almost anything Sakurai can say about Smash 4 will create some form of speculation. It's unavoidable.

 

[Cyberguy64]

without knowing what was said to whom I have no idea how I'm supposed to judge this.



where we seem to be disagreeing is what constitutes "sizable".

On the anniversary of the Pyrosphere tease, NoA posted a previously unseen screenshot of Meta-Knight there, bat-wings and all, looking like Ridley at the same time people were talking about their resemblance. Then, people asked them about PAX showing a Ridley trailer and they got a picture of Barney as a faking ignorance joke. Not the most professional behavior for PR.

It's to the point that design elements of the classics are being used in the modern stuff. That's pretty sizable, counting as both old and new. And for things that aren't toys or clothes, it's pretty 50%-50%