WBR Ruleset 1.0: Stage Voting Complete

[CT Chia]

I'm going to use this thread to keep track of all the stage poll results by updating the OP. This thread can also be used for everyone to discuss stages in general, like what should constitute a Starter, CP, and Banned stage.

Remember when voting on stages (it's not too big of a deal right now since we're just doing 5 very simple stages) that you should probably discuss the stages a little bit before you vote. It's fine to vote right away only if you are completely sure about your stance on it.

Current stage polls are up for 2 days, though I will increase it a bit more when we move onto more complex stages that require more discussion.

Results will be updated when the polls close for each stage.


Current Results

Battlefield: 15-0-1 Starter
Final Destination: 12-3-0 Starter
Smashville: 15-0-0 Starter
Yoshi's Island Brawl: 12-5-0 Starter
Lylat Cruise: 3-14-0 Counterpick

Pokemon Stadium: 0-13-0 Counterpick
Brinstar: 0-13-0 Counterpick
Castle Siege: 0-13-0 Counterpick
Battleship Halberd: 1-12-0 Counterpick
Delfino Plaza: 0-11-0 Counterpick

Luigi's Mansion: 0-8-0 Counterpick
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1: 1-1-9 Banned
Wifi Waiting Room: 5-7-0 Starter/Counterpick
Green Greens: 0-9-4 Counterpick
Pictochat: 1-11-0 Counterpick

Norfair: 0-0-14 Banned
Frigate Orpheon: 0-12-2 Counterpick
Pokemon Stadium 2: 14-0-1 Starter
Distant Planet: 0-4-7 Counterpick/Banned
Green Hill Zone: 0-0-12 Banned

Mario Circuit: 0-1-9 Banned
Bridge of Eldin: 0-0-9 Banned
Spear Pillar: 0-0-8 Banned
Port Town Aero Dive: 0-1-8 Banned
The Summit: 0-0-9 Banned

Pirate Ship: 0-2-6 Banned
Wario Ware: 8-1-0 Starter
Yoshi's Island Melee: 0-2-6 Banned
Jungle Japes: 0-8-1 Counterpick
Onett: 0-1-7 Banned
Corneria: 0-9-1 Counterpick
Rainbow Cruise: 0-7-1 Counterpick
Big Blue: 0-1-7 Banned

Not Voted On

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2
Rumble Falls
New Pork City
Skyworld
75m
Mario Bros.
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Shadow Moses Island
Temple





Final Results

Starter

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island Brawl
Pokemon Stadium 2
Wario Ware
Wifi Waiting Room*

Counterpick

Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Battleship Halberd
Delfino Plaza
Luigi's Mansion
Green Greens
Pictochat
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Corneria
Rainbow Cruise

Counterpick/Banned

Distant Planet**

Banned

Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1
Norfair
Green Hill Zone
Mario Circuit
Bridge of Eldin
Spear Pillar
Port Town Aero Dive
The Summit
Pirate Ship
Yoshi's Island Melee
Onett
Big Blue
Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2
Rumble Falls
New Pork City
Skyworld
75m
Mario Bros.
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Shadow Moses Island
Temple

*Wifi Waiting Room was voted into the Starter/Counterpick category, though only 6 stages made it into the Starter category. An odd number of stages is required for the Stage Striking process so Wifi Waiting Room was moved into Starter
**There was an indecisive vote for Distant Planet so it is up to the TOs to decide whether or not Distant Planet will be Counterpick or Banned at their tournament.

 

[CT Chia]

I'm probably going to make the next batch of 5 polls tonight. The other polls close in about ~13 hours or so? Not that much left, and theyr just standard stages anyway. Everyone get your votes in.

Whichever mod, would you mind closing any stage polls after the vote had ended? thx

 

[GHNeko]

Good **** Chibo.

 

[Veril]

Thanks for organizing all of this Chibo <3

You will be using this list for BtL2, correct?

 

[GHNeko]

Of course. And once complete we can post the list on BPN.

 

[JCaesar]

Sooo...

Lots of discussion about this recently. It has not been well-received at all by the B+ community at large (in case you haven't been checking the Hackfest/BtL2 threads). I think some of you may be underestimating how much of the community prefers a somewhat more conservative stagelist.

Are we going to override the voting process and fix this list? Or leave it as is? It's too late for a revote. I'd like the stagelist at Hackfest this weekend to be as close as possible to the one being used at BtL2, within reason.

 

[Revven]

In my humble opinion, stages that were banned in Brawl (like Corneria) that appear to be better CPs now (due to some changes, such as larger blastzones for Corneria for example) SHOULD still be CPs until there's like a proven thing about them that breaks the stage. The ONLY reason people don't like the stage list is because there's stages that were banned in Brawl in the CP list (LM, JJ, Corneria) which none have had much light shown in B+ (at least from what I know). Maybe I'm missing something, but, you can control whether or not you get infinited on Corneria... you can control whether you get loop camped in LM, the only stage that you CAN'T control of the three I listed is JJ, that being because of the Klap Trap (and I also was against this stage still being a CP).

The SBR-B had a LOT of rule set revisions in the life span of Brawl from when it first came out to now, the stage list has changed a lot since then. This is a new meta game, sure, some things may remain the same (Corneria's infinites) but, I don't see why we can't just try them out at least for the FIRST rule set. It'll obviously change some time down the road, possibly if something broken is proven to make the stage banned (I'm looking at LM here for the most part).

So, no, I don't think the rule set should change. As remember, the rule set is just a BASIS of what a TO should do, stage lists have ALWAYS been up to the TO, especially in the Midwest region (having the most OBSCURE stage lists ever btw) so if you, personally, as a TO thinks a tourney will prosper better from a more refined stage list (in your opinion) then change it around to meet that demand. But, if Chibo doesn't want to change the stage list for BtL2, it's just something that'll have to be lived with.

Oh God, longest post I've made in awhile. @_@

 

[Veril]

This stage list is fine. The community needs to suck it up and learn to play on stages they may not be familiar with. Japes, Corneria, etc... these stages don't warrant a ban. I'm tired of the general laziness I encounter. Like with people saying its sooo easy to combo cause they just don't know how to escape with SDI. Its the same s***. Arbitrarily reducing the stage list is a (lame, boring and unnecessary) decision that should be left to individual TOs.

 

[goodoldganon]

Meh what stages are causing problems in the community? I still think Jungle Japes and Frigate Orpheon are very mediocre (bad) stages that should be moved to banned. They are certainly the worst stages on that list. Corneria will probably be a problem with the wall too.

But over all the stage selection choice seems pretty solid. Think of the few stages we saved with codes:

WWR
Luigi's Mansion
Wario Ware
PKMN Stadium 2

4 stages is a lot to add into the mix. Especially when 3 of them are starter material.

I mean some stages even got slightly better boundaries.

We even went and banned some of the questionable SBR choices. If anything I really don't see what all the whining is about. I named my problem stages and I really only think one stage needs to be looked at.

I think we should ban Corneria for BtL2 just because we really don't know how 'lame' a wall can be yet and I'd hate to see someone get screwed by a stupid wall trap when BtL2 should be a huge boost for this game.

 

[Veril]

or or or or

we could actually go and check if the wall trap is legit. Believe me, I hate Corneria and would love to see it banned (along with that BS Green Greens crap). Give me a list of possible wall traps and I'll try and figure out how to escape them and if they are truly inescapable for a substantial portion of the cast, whether there's an unavoidable setup. If either of those are not the case, I don't think it should be banned. If neither is the case... you get the idea.


The only stage really worth complaining about is Green Greens...

 

[goodoldganon]

Check the vBrawl ones. I think Fox has the old Melee one. Shine to D-air. DK probably still has D-tilt. G and W I think can link his first hit of his jab over and over when the opponent is against the wall. It's really late but I assume a somewhat decent number of them still exist.

 

[JCaesar]

Why don't you guys join the discussion about stages in the BtL2 thread? Let the players see your reasoning. And just so we're all on the same page, I wasn't talking about complaints from random scrubs. These are the opinions of top-level Brawl+ players like Yes and Guru.

I'm starting to feel that there is a bit of a disconnect between the WBR and the B+ tournament community.

 

[Veril]

If we want to have a safer, more conservative set, we should remove Green Greens and Corneria, which have really obvious issues (Green Greens causes so much stupid bs...). Orpheon and Japes "mediocrity" is highly subjective (my favorite two stages to CP...) but I've already said my piece on them (if they kill you, its your fault for playing a character with a s****y recovery on a CP / not paying attention). Regardless, I'd accept the removal of Japes if it made people happier, but removing Japes and keeping Green Greens+Corneria would be absurd.

Having spent a little time messing around on with the wall s*** on Corneria, I think it might be wise to ban this stage for BtL2 and find out how realistic wall **** is with other smaller tourneys.

 

[CT Chia]

ppl need to stop trying to fix everything with codes. not everything is sovled with that

iv changed my mind on corneria and i think im gonna ban it anyway at btl2 thx to things like drill shine infinites on the wall

personally i would like SSE Jungle added and neutral for singles and doubles, then WWR CP in singles and WW CP in doubles

 

[Veril]

ppl need to stop trying to fix everything with codes. not everything is sovled with that

huh? I didn't mention code fixes at all... where'd that come from?

 

[Isatis]

huh? I didn't mention code fixes at all... where'd that come from?

I think he's talking about stuff like this (posts 6-10), not 100% sure though.

 

[Deleted member]

but everything IS fixable with codes.
only question in this case is, do we want that much CPs?