waveshining question

[knightpraetor]

so in some videos i see a pillar follow up into a waveshine..can they get out of this though? normal pillaring only allows the opponent to roll could they attack or do anything else during it?

i'm just wondering what's more effective..dair or follow up waveshine


also...for cancelling the phantasm...i'm ashamed to say i wasn't able to do it very well based off just reflex.

I guess i'll learn the timing eventually. I just wanted to make sure i assume people actually time the cancel? or is it like luigi's tornado recovery..are you just pressing b so fast it has to cancel...

unfortunately i can't get that many b presses...i guess i need to learn to only partially depress the B button

 

[Pye]

Personally, I never learned to pillar. I've always reflexively waveshined repeatedly on opponent's shields instead, and it works very well. It prevents shieldgrabs as well as attacks out of shield if done properly. Also, if you're Shiz, you can doubleshine shields, which is even better (not to mention extremely sexy)

As for canceling the overB, don't worry too much about it. The times when you'd use it are pretty few and far between. When I need to do it, I use overB, wait a split second, then tap B again. It's a lot like waveshining and doubleshining in that theres a very exact rythim to it, and once you learn that rythim, you can do it easily and at will. Spend some time in training mode, and you'll get it.

 

[knightpraetor]

does this mean fox can destroy shields with waveshines as well? or can they escape pretty easy?

 

[Ixninjax]

pillaring in general is alot harder (especially with dair) with fox. Even if you get past their shields, there's not much combo potential unless you just happen to waveshine right when get through to them. And that's if they don't fall from the shine. This is one reason why you don't see most fox's pillar.

 

[InfiniteGXT]

Actually with perfect down-to-the-frame control you can break your opponents shield with either waveshining or shine pillaring. Buts its pretty much impossible which is why Shiz double shines instead. I think its better to shffl past your opponent instead of directly on their shieled so they cant shield grab you

 

[knightpraetor]

how can i test whether i'm getting a full length on my perfect wavedashes? i'm particulary worried with fox..but any char will do..the thing is..i know i've upped my length on my wavedashes an extraordinary amount...but i don't know how horizontal is maximum distance..i have it pretty horizontal..but i don't know what the optimum position on the controller is for maximum range.

i wish there was something with a picture like in the video mission briefing (a training guide for samus) with a picture of a control stick and where to press for a perfect.

 

[Scud]

The perfect wavedash on the analog is when you place it in between the horizontal and the diagonal. It's in between the two notches. Infinitegxt, you shouldn't be getting shield grabbed out of your dair unless you released it too early or didn't L cancel correctly. I like to dair to waveshine behind them and then continue pillaring behind them, or sometimes i stay in front but it feels safer in the back yes...

 

[InfiniteGXT]

Infinitegxt, you shouldn't be getting shield grabbed out of your dair unless you released it too early or didn't L cancel correctly. I like to dair to waveshine behind them and then continue pillaring behind them, or sometimes i stay in front but it feels safer in the back yes...

Uh, actually its pretty easy to get shield grabbed out of a shffled dair if your opponent has the right timing. I can think of plenty of times that Ive been shield grabbed out of a dair that I still l-canceled. Whatever. I dont know what Im saying anymore. This is confusing me.

 

[Scud]

InfiniteGXT I know where you are coming from. I used to get grabbed out of my dair shine combos a lot, and I would get upset because I didn't see pros getting grabbed out of theirs much.But that doesn't happen much anymore and when it does i know it is going to happen because i screwed up. You have to make sure you start your dair later so that the sheild stun is closer to when you are going to shine. I really don't know why when people are trying to teach pillaring that they don't address this. If you start dairing as soon as you SH you will probably be grabbed out of it.

 

[knightpraetor]

sigh..but i don't know where between the two notches it is..i'm wondering if there are degrees of what is considered perfect..most people say i perfect wavedash fine..but like how perfect is perfect...if i can get more distance i want it

 

[Scud]

I am pretty sure it is just in between the two notches. Doesn't the game only read 16 different directions? There shouldn't be a certain degree angle in between those two notches. If you aren't leaving the ground at all and you are holding it at that angle then it should be a perfect wavedash.

 

[knightpraetor]

well based on the samus mission briefing video it is at least 18...but i always thought that there were near infinite:\ guess i was wrong..well in that case..i don't need to try as hard to get as horizontal....meaning that i'll probably never miss another perfect wavedash

still..i was so hoping for more range