Wavedash pivot desyncing

[Temporelucis]

Recently I decided to pick up Ice Climbers as my main, as usual I went into training mode and started practising wobbling because I wanted to piss off my friends.

When I was wavedashing trying to get a grab this happened:


Then I thought it could be done with other moves (but I've only tried with fmash):



Inputs:

1. / + +
2. 
3. 

The timing is when the sound of the Ice Climbers wavedash is ending.
If it works with other moves let me know

 

[OddishGuy]

Welcome to the world of ICs! :D

This is known as the solo Nana F-smash or SNFS. It doesn't have to be preceded by a WD, but movement is always appreciated.

Personally I love the little sequence of WD, SNFS, DD Popo grab, blizzard.

Anyhow, there's lots more to discover, so have fun! ^_^
Shoutouts to the 20XX standing color overlay, that will help in getting rid of wasted time, good to see a dedicated ******.

 

[DerfMidWest]

some stuff with actual pivots I've been using lately:

ICs and Luigi (as far as I know, but maybe the mario's too) are the only characters who can interrupt the momentum of their wd with a pivot (so they stop sliding).
Since pivots also desync ICs, this opens up a lot of defensive options for them.
The best one I've found so far is pivot solo sh iceblock (with nana) during the weird window where popo can't iceblock.

 

[Var Parasite]

Buffering a nana jump out of a pivot or dashsance turnaround animation is already known here, right? Like when you use the frames in a dashdance where popo is unable to jump.

 

[OddishGuy]

Buffering a nana jump out of a pivot or dashsance turnaround animation is already known here, right? Like when you use the frames in a dashdance where popo is unable to jump.

Yeah, this is what Derf is talking about with Solo Nana SH iceblock.
Many people use these for Solo Nana Bairs.

There's even Solo Nana JC Upsmash: http://gfycat.com/WeakWarlikeCutworm

 

[tauKhan]

If it works with other moves let me know

The SNFS works because dash out of Turn is slightly different to dash out of wait. Particularly fsmash is possible on frames 1-3 of dash forward, but not possible at all out of dash back(short for smash turn -> dash). Fsmash is the only move for which this applies, so it's not possible with other moves.

some stuff with actual pivots I've been using lately:

ICs and Luigi (as far as I know, but maybe the mario's too) are the only characters who can interrupt the momentum of their wd with a pivot (so they stop sliding).

That's a really weird way to put it, since turn when in dash universally removes most of speed for any character. But I guess it's only very relevant for luigi and ic's after wd since most chars lose so much speed during the landing lag of airdodge.

Buffering a nana jump out of a pivot or dashsance turnaround animation is already known here, right? Like when you use the frames in a dashdance where popo is unable to jump.

Yes, it's known, and done by inputting jump on the exact same frame you input smash turn (in order to dash back). Note that the timing is different than pivoting moves: to do a pivot move you input the move a frame after the dash input.

To be precise, there are no frames there where popo couldn't jump. Instead popo "chooses" to turn over jump. You can do only one action on any frame, and if your input could cause multiple different actions, one is chosen by the game. During dash, turn just happens to take priority over jump.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I don't think I've heard it called SNFS before... More accurate is smash turn Nana f-smash or dash back Nana f-smash.

The SNFS works because dash out of Turn is slightly different to dash out of wait. Particularly fsmash is possible on frames 1-3 of dash forward, but not possible at all out of dash back(short for smash turn -> dash). Fsmash is the only move for which this applies, so it's not possible with other moves.

To provide some context for this explanation: When you smash turn with Popo, Nana dashes forward in the same direction. This is because her direction is updated every frame to match Popo's*, and her inputs are interpreted in the context of that direction (so she reorients to face the same direction as Popo, and then dashes forward in the direction she's now facing).

*Don't want to get too complicated here, but Popo's direction at the end of every frame is passed into a queue read by Nana 6 frames later. Her direction is read from this queue at the beginning of every frame, so she ends up "reorienting" a frame too early whenever Popo turns around.

The dash attack/f-smash desynch and the solo dash attack desynchs work for essentially the same reason. On frames 1-4 of dash forward, you can f-smash but can't dash attack. Starting on frame 1 of dash back, you can dash attack but can't f-smash. When you smash turn, Nana dashes forward. If you hit A while holding the same direction, Popo will interpret the input as dash attack while she interprets it as f-smash. If you let go of the direction before hitting A, Popo will dash attack and Nana will simply dash forward (since she can't dash attack during these frames).

 

[DerfMidWest]

That's a really weird way to put it, since turn when in dash universally removes most of speed for any character. But I guess it's only very relevant for luigi and ic's after wd since most chars lose so much speed during the landing lag of airdodge.

Well what happens is ICs and Luigi have such low traction they are still moving from their wd for awhile after the landing lag ends, which is why they are still actionable while moving, as opposed to other characters who really don't act until the wd has stopped moving or the very end of it.

So since ICs and luigi have this aditional slide after the wd, in which they are totally actionable, you have time to do a quick pivot which completely stops this momentum and gives you even more control as to how far you are sliding.

you can do this at any point after the land lag is over to stop your momentum.
It's really nice for a lot of positioning things, but also setting up desyncs like I was talking about.

 

[NTRN]

I have been working with dash back Nana fsmash dbnfs for a while. I really like it for something like double fair, dbnfs, dash forward grab. Or for multiple option edge guards, stand at ledge, dbnfs the ledge while popo is free to cover high or mid with abair or down smash. Once I realized it could be done from any standing position, it really opened my eyes. Out of WD, out of normals, out of aerials.

Also, I have found the dashback popo u or d smash dbpus/dbpds to be very similar, and quite useful as it gives you an option if you are facing towards or away from your opponent, and the accompanying Nana bair is often very unexpected. I haven't seen it mentioned before in the forums.