Wavedash= good smasher or not

[Nyuji]

I'm a fox player and have been since smash first came out, but unfortunately I can't wavedash efficiently enough to use it on real matches. I can do it well enough on my own but just can't seem to pull it off during matches to do me any good, and usually when I try I get punished by the other guy. I've only heard of wavedashing recently, and haven't practiced it too much.

Recently at my local high school gaming club smash tournament, I was ridiculed by another fox player for not being able to wavedash. The guys was pretty good he could wavedash as well as waveshine like crazy. He kept bashing me about why I would even use fox if I didn't wavedash, that really pissed me off.

So we played a match, and I ended up owning him. I'm not good at wavedashing but I am pretty good with shuffles and shinespikes.
This guy was the first person I've fought who used wavedashes (yea everyone else in my area sucks at smash, #1 reason why I'm not good at wavedashing, I've never needed to to win) and I always thought that someone who could wavedash was going to be very hard to beat. but I beat this guy without too much trouble.

It may be just the different tactics we used but is not being able to wavedash a handicap or are there really good fox (or any other char) player out there who don't wavedash.

 

[KrnMint_00v]

Masashi is pretty good, and he suppossedly doesn't WD.

WDing definately helps Fox. I'd say it is pretty important. I can't imagine playing Fox without being able to waveshine. But there are people who can pull it off.

 

[ArcNatural]

Wavedashing is a great tool for Fox. All it takes is practice (using in practice and in matches). I recommend just doing it a lot in matches with your friends until you get comfortable with it. And make sure that you wavedash for a reason. Wavedash back to avoid an attack, waveshine, fake them out with wavelanding, etc. The worst is if you just wavedash around and not use it for any reason at all (unless your doing your victory dance while waiting for your opponent's next stock).

Edit: It can make you a better player if you use it correctly and it fits your gamestyle. You don't need it, but all it does is give you more options while playing. And Fox vs. Fox dittoes waveshining isn't as important (since the only thing you can do out of a waveshine against people who fall from a shine is the Thunder's combo, which is hard to pull off compared to waveshining other characters). The matchup mainly about dash dancing and upthrows. So while he could waveshine and wavedash like crazy too bad it is not as viable in Fox dittoes. Wavelanding is always good though (jump towards them waveland backwards if they grab free opportunity for example).

 

[Jumanji]

Wavedashing just gives you more options, it is not a tactics that makes you innately better than someone. Until you learn to integrate it into your game effectively it may actually do more harm than good (as you will get punished for doing it at the wrong time.) Good players that do not know advance tactics (meaning players that have played the game for years with out being exposed to it) are almost always going to beat players who are relatively new to the game but do know the tactics, there is just so much more to understand about the game than just the movement of the wavedash and your advantage in those other parts will make you better. That being said not being able to wavedash will limit your development because it limits your options in a given situations and sometimes the option that includes wave dashing is the best option.
For instance you full jump a sex kick into a shield and l-cancel to shine, this hits, if you don't wavedash you are limited in your options for a follow up. Sure you an Jump cancel the shine into a shffl'ed aerial but it would be so much easier/safer/more effective to wavedash it into an up smash or another shine or a grab, or whatever.
In short, not being able to wavedash does not make you a good player, but it certainly will help you become one.

 

[felix45]

masashi uses wd so do most japan fox players for shine combos. for baiting they tend to do double jump mindgames instead of what american players do, probably the only reason we are better at melee than japan is.

only character in the game I think doesn't absolutley need wd would be zelda, peach, or bowser but even with them it is useful.


wavedash for fox is probably the most useful in the game. dont worry about the guy who was bashing you he is a *******.


what you need to practice with fox and wavedash is 3 things.

1 is shine, wavedash, jump canceled grab or usmash (in this case wavedash is for comboing)

the second is for baiting attacks. wavedash combined with dash dance helps the opponent miss attacks and lets you punish them. I'll get you vids for all this stuff after I explain.

the third is again for punishing people who smash into your shield but are just out of range of a shield grab. after they forward smash (this is usually the case) you should wavedash forward and jump cancel a grab. the best character to practice this on is marth because if you dont jc the grab marth can grab you first or use jab to stop you.


there is still tons of other stuff you can do with wavedash but these 3 are key. every good fox player can do them all. I'll edit in vids in a second for you to watch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOxNmrjZljY
waveshine combo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUgR0AE1_KA
this has everything except wd out of shield into grab. I dont feel like finding a scrub who does that. you will never see pros openly smash into a shield because you will always be punished for it. fox w/ usmash can get away with it sometimes if they play fast enough and are really applying pressure but for the most part it doesn't happen.

 

[Nyuji]

The only times I do use it in matches are when I wd back right before i reach my opponent. other than that I've only used it like you said as a victory dance .

I guess I have to try to use it doing my matches more often

 

[KrnMint_00v]

masashi uses wd so do most japan fox players for shine combos. for baiting they tend to do double jump mindgames instead of what american players do, probably the only reason we are better at melee than japan is.

that's what I thought too. I know he WDs for mindgames. But I don't think I've ever seen him waveshine into a combo.

I guess I have to try to use it doing my matches more often

You don't neccessarily have to do it in matches to master it. Try getting the timing/routine down. But it does take practice. Then you can apply it.

 

[takieddine]

You could go living without a wavedash with fox, but that just limits your options IMO.

It doesnt necessarily MAKE you a better player, but once you get to use it instinctively you'll appreciate its usefulness.

 

[Red.]

wavedash benefits alot for fox

 

[captainlukey]

wavedashing is just another technique that gives you more options (such as wding back) that u wouldnt necessarily have without it...

 

[GOTM]

IMO, experience and being smart is more important than technical ability without a doubt.

 

[mikeHAZE]

IMO, experience and being smart is more important than technical ability without a doubt.

yeah but as a fox you still need some technical ability, as with pretty much any character.

 

[GOTM]

oh yea definitly. but what im trying to say is you dont need to be silent wolf here, lol.

i mean, masashi is barely technical and he ***** plenty of smashers. if he was just a little more technical, his experience and mindgames could probably hold him up against a lot of top people

 

[captainlukey]

oh yea definitly. but what im trying to say is you dont need to be silent wolf here, lol.

i mean, masashi is barely technical and he ***** plenty of smashers. if he was just a little more technical, his experience and mindgames could probably hold him up against a lot of top people

can u definately be sure about that....
i mean it sounds good in theory.... but would changing his style to more tech etc, work?
i mean its his style for a reason.... u dont have to be tech all the time.
and adv tech change the way the game is played... i mean if he doesnt play tech and then all of a sudden he was captaintech... it would be a completely different style and he may not be so good.
is it really worth changing masashi?

 

[Miharu]

No. No. No. No.

The ability to wavedash means zilch unless you can utilize the benefits correctly.