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Wave Dodge?

nightSN

nightSN

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
539
Location
Ontario, Canada
im thinking that its just like DPC (dash pivot cancel) like if you put it on as an a stick you get the same momentum as that "wave dodge" so im guessing: run, turnaround, DPC into ftilt and quickly spotdodge. but thats what im guessing, havent tried it yet.
 
memphischains

memphischains

Smash hhkj'
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
3,953
Location
Boston, MA
Lezard said:
k was able to recreate this perfect, its simply actually just f dilt the as mario is about to put is foot down just dodge
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fcukinSN said:
im thinking that its just like DPC (dash pivot cancel) like if you put it on as an a stick you get the same momentum as that "wave dodge" so im guessing: run, turnaround, DPC into ftilt and quickly spotdodge. but thats what im guessing, havent tried it yet.
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did you two read this thread at all?

no **** its simply a ftilt. we've been saying that the entire time anyway, but the timing is the second his whole foot touches the groud.

it works into a crouch, downsmash, spot dodge, and shield after crouch.
read the freaking thread Lezard

SN you should leave, dont post unless you know what your talking about. this has nothing to do with dash pivot cancel
 
FS Fantom

FS Fantom

Free Saltines
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
333
Location
Long Island. NY
NNID
Sbfantom
So Ftilt -> crouch/dodge/dsmash will work.

Now, does this honestly have a chance to be utilized in battle like the WD could?
 
K

Koga

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
352
I don't know, This seems to move him farther than the momentum of his f tilt if it was allowed to finish. That's the only question in my head.
 
memphischains

memphischains

Smash hhkj'
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
3,953
Location
Boston, MA
what?

the second his foot is totally on the group is the best slide if thats what you are talking about

this isnt a big deal, although it is giving us more ideas about brawls overall mechanics, its nothing really special. just i side note.
 
K

Koga

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
352
memphischains said:
what?

the second his foot is totally on the group is the best slide if thats what you are talking about

this isnt a big deal, although it is giving us more ideas about brawls overall mechanics, its nothing really special. just i side note.
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on the group?

anyways, i didn't say it was a big deal, however; if you allow the ftilt animation to finish mario does not move as far back because of that animation as he does when this happens.

what i think it is though is that due to the spot dodge animation that it moves mario's front end to where his back foot would land at the end of the Ftilt animation.

i'm just wondering if you can cancel a dash attack into this on the same frame that you can cancel to a boost smash.
 
I

ihatemybrother

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
391
Location
Naples, FL
YES! Finally somewhat is on the same page as me. The mario F-tilt to 1/2 inch slide doesn't mean much to me, but the mechanics behind it intrigue me. If we were to cancel a dash attack with a dodge, we would have a wavedash. We can't cancel a dash attack with, lets say, a f-smash, because you cannot do a forward smash while dashing. You CAN however, dodge out of a dash. Also, I believe that all attacks that can be jump-canceled can cancel a dash attack. The running up-smash works by dashing, jumping, but upsmashing before you leave the ground. This also happens during a snakedash, but the jump is inputted automatically with the upsmash when you press grab and up. If we were to take fox, start a dash attack, cancel it with a jump, then with a shine, I believe that waveshining can become a reality. Any ideas/testing?
 
memphischains

memphischains

Smash hhkj'
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
3,953
Location
Boston, MA
Koga said:
on the group?

anyways, i didn't say it was a big deal, however; if you allow the ftilt animation to finish mario does not move as far back because of that animation as he does when this happens.

what i think it is though is that due to the spot dodge animation that it moves mario's front end to where his back foot would land at the end of the Ftilt animation.

i'm just wondering if you can cancel a dash attack into this on the same frame that you can cancel to a boost smash.
Click to expand...
ground. i cant spell or type

it has nothing to do with spot dodging, it is just something you can do while sliding

your last comment is stupid
 
Crizthakidd

Crizthakidd

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
2,619
Location
NJ
reverse canceled dash dodge!!! lol j.k

this could be big tho. needs more testing. again brawl is just throwing out more dodgine, defensive tactics
 
R

Ratherion

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
250
Location
Woodinville, Washington, USA
ihatemybrother said:
YES! Finally somewhat is on the same page as me. The mario F-tilt to 1/2 inch slide doesn't mean much to me, but the mechanics behind it intrigue me. If we were to cancel a dash attack with a dodge, we would have a wavedash. We can't cancel a dash attack with, lets say, a f-smash, because you cannot do a forward smash while dashing. You CAN however, dodge out of a dash. Also, I believe that all attacks that can be jump-canceled can cancel a dash attack. The running up-smash works by dashing, jumping, but upsmashing before you leave the ground. This also happens during a snakedash, but the jump is inputted automatically with the upsmash when you press grab and up. If we were to take fox, start a dash attack, cancel it with a jump, then with a shine, I believe that waveshining can become a reality. Any ideas/testing?
Click to expand...
Fox can do his new pseudo waveshine if you do the dash-short-hop-shine thingy.
 
I

ihatemybrother

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
391
Location
Naples, FL
I know about jump-canceled shine, but I'm thinking of a dash-canceled jump-canceled shine, it may carry momentum from dash attack into shine.
 
Wyvern

Wyvern

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
455
Location
New England
ihatemybrother said:
We must learn more about the properties of the hyphen smash. If it is just a jump-canceled upsmash, then why can't I wave shine by canceling a dash attack with a jump-canceled shine.

If it is just a jump-canceled smash, then we may be able to do many other sliding jump-canceled attacks, thus bringing a part of wavedashing back, and waveshining for you foxes out there.
Click to expand...
Earthbound360 said:
it's not a jump cancelled smash. If it were, it wouldnt be possible without tap jump on, or at least possible using only the stick.

The usmash out of shield IS a jump cancelled smash because you cant do it without tap jump. If you have it off, then you must press a jump button before you smash.
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It's my understanding that a lot of the jump-cancelling mechanics from Melee (jump-cancelled grabs are the only one I can remember off the top of my head) don't apply anymore, which suggests that they tried to take out jump cancelling in general. But there was no way to get rid of jump-cancelled up-smashes/up-Bs. If they did, inputting an up-smash with tap jumping on would be impossible. You would get stuck in a jump every time you tried, or else there could only be like a one-frame input for the A/B-button press. Which would have been bad.

So, as long as jump-cancelled up-smashes out of a dash were going to have to be possible anyway, they probably just decided to mark up-smashes as an allowable input during a dash so as to save everyone a whole bunch of trouble. Come to think of it, it's kind of odd that they wouldn't have done the same for shields...in any case, hyphen smashing seems like something that was deliberately applied to the up-smash by the developers as a consequence of the necessity of having jump-cancelled up-smashes in the game, and I sincerely doubt the mechanic is applicable to any other move (aside from up-Bs, I guess). It's not like it was some kind of oversight.

Jump-cancelling DOES still have a few interesting hiccups to it (see Squirtle's Hydroplaning, which does require it: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148902), but it still seems unlikely that the jump-cancelling/hyphen-smashing route is going to get us anywhere with anything besides up-smashes and maybe up-Bs.
 
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