Water gun. Nothing to envy, Mario

[chubas]

Seriously, one of the game's most underestimated moves. Mario users have found a good utility for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6xLCOLY_w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uill9wgXQ4


Do you think Squirtle has potential using this move?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

YouTube's being a <female dog> for me, so could you explain what's happening?

 

[chubas]

YouTube's being a <female dog> for me, so could you explain what's happening?

Basically, Mario uses F.L.U.D.D. as a somewhat nice edgeguard, and for pushing people away from attacks. It seems to pass the ledge, so you can push characters just below the edge. Free fall. Whooops.
The videos show a couple of good Marios using the technique.

I wonder if Squirtle could use it for the same purpose. I think Squirtle is good for pushing chars off legde (pseudo WOP ftw), but unlike Mario, has no good attacks with that horizontal knockback and no projectiles. Still usable, and pretty neat if you ask me.

 

[Tenki]

I always thought of Squirtle's WG as more of a defensive move, though it's probably possible for a Squirtle player to pull a Mario-style edgeguard with it.

I mean really, Squirtle's does damage if you double tap it, and just doing a bit of water gun on someone coming in from the air can screw up their positioning so you can counterattack, right?

 

[AmishTechnology]

I posted this in some other Smash forums. Couldn't you push Snake into his own traps with the water gun or FLUDD? People have been telling me that the water gun is too weak and would be too trivial for such situations.

 

[JJBro1]

I did this when brawl first came out with squirtle but i dont do it as much anymore

 

[chubas]

I won't be able to check it right now (lent Brawl), but I have the impression that FLUDD pushed harder than water gun. Can someone test it?

And yep, uncharged WG is neat for unexpected damage, I don't use it vey much. But, as I said, I think we are underestimating that move. Sakurai isn't idiot (or intentionally evil...).

 

[FindTheBalance]

I tried using this move in the past. I couldn't use it well, but that was back when I first got brawl.

It seems like a good move, but not as much for PT. You need time to charge it up. Normally, a free moment as PT means switching to the next PKMN due to damage. And there's also stamina to consider. If you've got enough or ignore it, you could charge this move up after a kill. Squirtle can walk while charging it though.

 

[3transfat]

I'm not able to test it, but I'm pretty sure FLUDD pushes a little harder than the water gun.
However, it doesn't mean it can't be used for the same purpose... it just can't be aimed.

It seems like a good move, but not as much for PT. You need time to charge it up. Normally, a free moment as PT means switching to the next PKMN due to damage. And there's also stamina to consider. If you've got enough or ignore it, you could charge this move up after a kill. Squirtle can walk while charging it though.

Well, you can actually be charging up the water gun while falling through the air. It doesn't affect your fall at all.

 

[FindTheBalance]

Sorry, forgot about that. Alright, I'm definitely going to experiment w/ it now.

 

[washy]

In a lot of those situations with mario using the flud, squirtle may have found it easier just to fair them off the screen.

 

[chubas]

In a lot of those situations with mario using the flud, squirtle may have found it easier just to fair them off the screen.

I don't quite think so. Fludd is used more for edgeguarding near the stage, while you can fair when they are farther from the stage. And if you fair, you give them another chance to come back, while if you WG, they just fall.
Some recoveries can't be faired effectively anyway, like MK or R.O.B.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Water Gun/FLUDD are amazing. They STOP PEOPLE FROM GRABBING THE LEDGE.

Hax.

 

[acojan]

hi i am a mario main and there are craploads of threads about this in the mario forums....

anyways about the pushback- mario's fludd has a sweetspot that pushes opponents almost 50% more.
you need to hit them on/near the head (for mk/jiggs/kirby the very top of their head)

i am not so sure with watergun though ----

 

[Banditsofthesea]

I think it will be very situational, even more so than Fludd due to the fact that its weaker =[ Ah well, Squirtle will live on as awesome!

 

[chubas]

hi i am a mario main and there are craploads of threads about this in the mario forums....

anyways about the pushback- mario's fludd has a sweetspot that pushes opponents almost 50% more.
you need to hit them on/near the head (for mk/jiggs/kirby the very top of their head)

i am not so sure with watergun though ----

Gotta test it. Nice to see some Marios here

 

[Dizzynecro]

I think water gun is a LOT weaker than FLUDD.

 

[CoonTail]

I've been playing squirtle alot and this are what I have found as far as water gun goes.

Positive
-Its not difficult to charge figuring when you free falling you can charge it
-It has great reach so instead of being vunerable and jumping off you can stay on the stage and force characters to try and recover around water gun
-It has great reach
-against characters such as luigi, ganon, falcon, even diddy you can really mess them up

Negative
-requires a quickfollow up otherwise they can potentially still recover
-Characters who have vertical recoveries will sweetspot the edge
-It only works against some recoveries


Overall it is a character specific move to use, but if added in to a playstyle you could really keep alot of characters in check if they leave the stage

These are just my findings so if something isnt completely correct my bad

 

[Fearmy]

I've been playing squirtle alot and this are what I have found as far as water gun goes.

Positive
-Its not difficult to charge figuring when you free falling you can charge it
-It has great reach so instead of being vunerable and jumping off you can stay on the stage and force characters to try and recover around water gun
-It has great reach
-against characters such as luigi, ganon, falcon, even diddy you can really mess them up

Negative
-requires a quickfollow up otherwise they can potentially still recover
-Characters who have vertical recoveries will sweetspot the edge
-It only works against some recoveries


Overall it is a character specific move to use, but if added in to a playstyle you could really keep alot of characters in check if they leave the stage

These are just my findings so if something isnt completely correct my bad

Well i have seen and done that if you do it perfectly on the head, there almost is no need for the quick follow up. Basically The closer they are the easier it is to aim the water gun. i've killed many characters with this move, but mainly heavy characters are the really annoying ones

 

[Retro Gaming]

However, it doesn't mean it can't be used for the same purpose... it just can't be aimed.

I messed around with the move for a little when the game first came out and I realized that Squirtle can actually aim his quite a bit. Release the move and then hold up or down and you'll see a slight difference in trajectory. Not sure if it's worth noting, but up can definatley help considering Squirtle's height.

 

[Kemious]

I'm not able to test it, but I'm pretty sure FLUDD pushes a little harder than the water gun.
However, it doesn't mean it can't be used for the same purpose... it just can't be aimed.
.

Actually water gun can be aimed just as effective as Fludd

 

[TheLake]

I thought squirtles was better.....doesnt it go further at least?

Any hoot i use it far more then i should but i love gimping with it. Ike gets wrecked from water gun and so do ness/lucas' recoverys.

Its also fun for spacing for using it at the end of a combo if you cant use another decent finisher.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

It doesn't have the pushback of Fludd, but I think it reaches further. Hmm...

 

[???????]

F.L.U.D.D. has more to equal range with the Water Gun (The F.L.U.D.D.'s water stream is arced a bit more so it appears shorter).

 

[dmauro]

In a lot of those situations with mario using the flud, squirtle may have found it easier just to fair them off the screen.

The benefit of using water is that since they are not hit, they won't get their up b or side b moves back for those characters that do. Those Mario videos were really impressive. I'll have to try this out with Squirtle.

 

[Kanzaki]

<--- Mario main, PT secondary.


I think Mario's fludd is stronger due to the tip giving more push back[I never tested if this is true for Squirtle as well], but I use Squirtle's Water Gun more than Mario's Super Soaker.

What I do with Squirtle against unexpected opponents is pseudo wall of pain with fair's, and when we're finally off the stage, I do a Money Shot-like move(2 fair's in 1 one jump, double jump into a final fair), and after the last fair, I shoot Squirtle's water gun, usually for a ko.

 

[CoonTail]

<--- Mario main, PT secondary.


I think Mario's fludd is stronger due to the tip giving more push back[I never tested if this is true for Squirtle as well], but I use Squirtle's Water Gun more than Mario's Super Soaker.

What I do with Squirtle against unexpected opponents is pseudo wall of pain with fair's, and when we're finally off the stage, I do a Money Shot-like move(2 fair's in 1 one jump, double jump into a final fair), and after the last fair, I shoot Squirtle's water gun, usually for a ko.

If this is true and you really manage to link a money shot to a water gun for the kill, please get a video because I wanna see how you manage to recover and how much you charged the water gun before hand.

If this is the case and squirtle really can do this than I think water gun has a much stronger use then thought before.

 

[chubas]

What I do with Squirtle against unexpected opponents is pseudo wall of pain with fair's, and when we're finally off the stage, I do a Money Shot-like move(2 fair's in 1 one jump, double jump into a final fair), and after the last fair, I shoot Squirtle's water gun, usually for a ko.

Charged or uncharged?

I never thought WG as an aerial attack, since Squirtle has the hitting to do it. Must be difficult to WG offstage. I'd like to try that technique. (but I changed my game with a friend for Guitar Hero, so don't have Brawl for a time )

 

[acojan]

what most mario's do is run off the stage and jump with a few nairs and bairs then cape to stop the momentum and finally fludd in midair. the recoil from fludd will usually push mario back enough to safely DI onto the stage or at least grab the ledge. if it is still too far mario still has his 3rd jump left <up b>

mario is fun ^_^

 

[Moonraider17]

Im pretty sure mario's fludd and squrtle's WG have the same push back power. (I even tested it but it was yesterday and i cant remember) but for mario i like to knock em out, use the fludd to "freeze" them in mid-air, then spike em to their death.

 

[???????]

Water Gun has a bit of a sweetspot, but F.L.U.D.D. has a true tipper from what I've tested; F.L.U.D.D. seems to give better pushback overall.

 

[TheREALShadowChaos]

I have used Water Gun pretty often on WiFi (It is a funny move after all....) But I suck at it.... I only managed to kill one person with Water Gun.....

 

[LegendofLink]

Squirtle's water gun also charges much faster than F.L.U.D.D, but Mario can combine it with the cape for much easier gimps. I prefer to usse Water Gun to stop short hopped arial approaches and make them fall short of me.

 

[XienZo]

I find that water gun is really useful to gimp Lucas's and Ness's recoveries, when they're still directing the PKT.

 

[Maraphy]

What you can do is jump twice and charge up the Water Gun in the air, and then position yourself while you're falling so you land on the edge and get invincibility frames.

From there just B-throw the opponent or launch them w/e, and then turn around and spray them with it as they use up their 3rd jump.

 

[gantrain05]

i dont know, i only really use the water gun on chars who already have a bad recovery (ganon/falcon) other than that most ppl i play see it coming and avoid it all together.