Was the Bat(Forward smash) nerfed?

[Zaim2]

Has the slower speed and decreased speed made it unusable, or is it still as abusable as in Melee? And am I right in thinking that Lucas has the equivalent of Ness' Melee Bat (except it's a stick)?

UK player who hasn't imported yet and curious.

 

[DMG]

L ucas's stick is faster but not as powerful as N ess' bat. Plus N ess gets that sick sound everytim e you land a hit with it

 

[Wave⁂]

Don't avoid the April Fool's. Embrace it. Well, I for one find Ness's fsmash a biit weaker, and with his yoyo's, you have an alternate attack. Lucas's seems really fast, and can be applied in more ways than Ness's can, unless it can also reflect projectiles.

 

[NeoZ]

What did you even mean by "Ninten' Brawl Bat"?
I don't get this April Fool's crap, every term(and character) changed names, and where I live AF=regular day.

 

[J0K3R]

Ness and Lucas are uber with their aerials which you can shffl to substitute for a fsmash

 

[Earthbound360]

Bat was nerfed. Its low speed makes it painfully less useful.

Oh, and on April fools day

N-3-5-5 = Ninten
|_-|_|-C-4-5 = Claus
5-M-4-5-|-| = Halo

Watch me type the above
Ness
Lucas
Smash

 

[Ademisk]

True, but it was buffed in terms of sound, and reflective capabilities.

 

[Earthbound360]

You like the new sound?
I missed the ping. Only the strongest moves made that noise (Home-run bat, Lu!g!'s dragon punch, and J!gglypuffs rest)

 

[Aevin]

What I find is the sweet spot is much more pronounced. Hitting with the inner part will almost never KO, but the tip seems to have similar power to what it had in the previous game.

I missed the old sound effect at first, but I've grown to love the new one. Only the strongest moves made the "ping," but only this ONE move makes the homerun-crack sound.

 

[Dee Em Gee]

the ping was the best sound effect hands down.

To me it's still as good as it was before, you just have to use it with a little better timing this time around

 

[Dee Em Gee]

sorry double post. . .

 

[Zaim2]

Bat was nerfed. Its low speed makes it painfully less useful.

Yeah this was the answer I was looking for. But is it "painfully less useful" to the extent that the bat is pretty much useless now as a KO move and should only be used as a reflector, or is it still landable against a decent opponent, just inferior to the stick/Melee bat in your experience?

 

[Earthbound360]

Its useable, which is why I didnt say "painfully useless."
Its not as slow as Ike or Bowser fsmash in that matter. But true, I liked Melee bat and stick more.

 

[PKboy89]

in my opinion the bat was nerfed...It is really only a good move if you hit with it right at the tip, which can KO even at low percentages...but thats really hard to pull off since the bat is even slower then it was melee, and you gotta hit them right at the tip...the inner part of the bat will like...never kill...not even at high percentages. Lucas's stick, however, is much better in my opinion. Its really fast, and is much more useful then the bat. It does have a tip sweet spot, which makes it even better, and you almost always hit with the tip since he doesn't point the stick out forward like Ness points his bat, and if you do hit with the inner part, its still a good smash attack that is a great killing move, tip or no tip. Overall, Lucas's stick is much more effective and stronger since you don't have to worry about tipping. If you want full potential though, the tip of Ness's bat is much stronger then the stick.

 

[ncstate21]

The bat's sweet spot is at the tip. Dont expect a good hit if theyre too close. HIT THEM WITH THE TIP. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Sometimes, a slow move can be useful in messing up your opponent's timing. If you learn to use the bat correctly, it's pretty **** good. It's not nearly as easy to hit with as it was before but the payoff is pretty good.

 

[cHooKay]

Ness' bat to me is a big nerf, and a bad one at that. Not only does it require a really hard sweetspot, its god awful slower making it completely useless. The only time I've used it is when my opponent messed up like tripping or mental errors, and when I've set my opponents for the bat which isn't easy. Sadly and strangely, which to me is completely crazy of sakurai to do, the stick completely owns the bat hands down. The difference in power is completely minor, I've knocked out opponents with the stick around the same percentage as any average good smash attack, let alone ness' bat. Not only that, the stick is EXTREMELY QUICK AND EASY TO COMBO WITH, most of lucas' arials combo so smoothly (connects like the calibur of shiek moves in term of how fluid her moves are) into the stick which is extremely cheap. Freaking Lucas, WTF sakurai, why nerf the bat? And to make matters worse, although the yo-yo is improved from melee, its definitely a defensive smash attack and is definitely not a kill move, and since the bat is completely useless it only means Ness' killing potential in general is probably his greatest nerf. Think about it, all three of his smash moves, the moves that are generally designed for KOs for every single character, are no good for KOs. WTF sakurai...

 

[Earthbound360]

Ness' bat to me is a big nerf, and a bad one at that. Not only does it require a really hard sweetspot, its god awful slower making it completely useless. The only time I've used it is when my opponent messed up like tripping or mental errors, and when I've set my opponents for the bat which isn't easy. Sadly and strangely, which to me is completely crazy of sakurai to do, the stick completely owns the bat hands down. The difference in power is completely minor, I've knocked out opponents with the stick around the same percentage as any average good smash attack, let alone ness' bat. Not only that, the stick is EXTREMELY QUICK AND EASY TO COMBO WITH, most of lucas' arials combo so smoothly (connects like the calibur of shiek moves in term of how fluid her moves are) into the stick which is extremely cheap. Freaking Lucas, WTF sakurai, why nerf the bat? And to make matters worse, although the yo-yo is improved from melee, its definitely a defensive smash attack and is definitely not a kill move, and since the bat is completely useless it only means Ness' killing potential in general is probably his greatest nerf. Think about it, all three of his smash moves, the moves that are generally designed for KOs for every single character, are no good for KOs. WTF sakurai...

You havent seen Ademisk's Ness have you? I swear, he can hit with the bat seemingly whenver he wants.

Also, Ness dsmash will kill after about 150. But just because he has poor smashes for killing, doesnt mean he cannot kill. He has plenty of good options.

Bair kills
Uair kill when used as a juggle
Dair spikes
Nair kills off stage (great for edgeguarding)
PKT2 kills and is VERY easy to hit with with proper mindgames
And Ness' bthrow is still one of the strongest bthrows in the game.

PK Flash also kills, although a bit hard to hit with. Great for edgeguarding though.

 

[Rash]

Eh...The bat's a relatively devastating smash attack, when put to good use. It's not great, but it's not useless. Hell, my buddies hate the bat; they think it's cheap even though it's nothing like, say, the Home Run bat.

 

[cHooKay]

I know ness does have plenty of kill moves, but still, having the bat as a reliable one would've been nice. compared to how the bat functioned like in melee, the brawl bat reeks the scent of a nerf. Sadly, I rather go with the stick...

 

[Conda]

Regarding the stick > bat thing, why is lucas's magnet so clearly better in every way compared to ness's magnet? So silly to go out of your way to make one character better in aspects that have nothing to do with either character.

Designer 1: Hey, let's give Lucas a better PKT2 recovery than Melee Ness, give Lucas tether recovery, and nerf Ness's PKT2 recovery.
Designer 2: Awright, sounds good. Oh, don't forget to make Lucas's stick faster and more reliable than Ness's baseball bat. Because, you know, sticks are like that.
Designer 1 : Awesome idea. As a tradeoff, we'll design Lucas as a whiny, scared, smileless child to offset the obvious preference we've given him.
Designer 2: Makes sense.

 

[Earthbound360]

^^^
Lol

Ness DOES have one minor (VERY minor) adavantage over Lucas' PSI Magnet. It has more range. Easily detectable using Din's fire.

 

[thesage]

^^^
Lol

Ness DOES have one minor (VERY minor) adavantage over Lucas' PSI Magnet. It has more range. Easily detectable using Din's fire.

Wait.... Even though Lucas' psi magnet is outside of his body?

 

[Earthbound360]

Yup. That's pretty wierd huh?
Wierd how also Lucas can block himself all over, contrary to what the animation suggests.

So it LOOKS like Ness has less range, but he has more.
It also LOOKS like Lucas is partly vulnerable, but he's actually completely covered.

 

[Smashbros_7]

^^^
Lol

Ness DOES have one minor (VERY minor) adavantage over Lucas' PSI Magnet. It has more range. Easily detectable using Din's fire.

Gee thats REALLY useful.

I would buff Ness in this way. Make his Psi Magnet have a LARGE wind effect, and make his Bat
do MUCH less damage, 18 but have the speed of Mario's Fsmash.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Also, Ness seems to be able to roll after absorbing a projectile and stuff like that. I don't think Lucas can do that.

Still, they should have made the wind effect on his magnet MUCH stronger so that he could really blow the opponent away just by using psi magnet.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Also, Ness seems to be able to roll after absorbing a projectile and stuff like that. I don't think Lucas can do that.

Still, they should have made the wind effect on his magnet MUCH stronger so that he could really blow the opponent away just by using psi magnet.

Lucas can do this too...

**** YOU SAKURAI!!!

 

[Earthbound360]

Does PSI wind effect work on airborne foes?

And yeah, seriously, WHAT was sakurai thinking giving Ness like no noticable pluses over Lucas' magnet.

At least SOME moves that go to Lucas have some controversy (or the other way around). I like the stick better, but Ademisk likes the bats power and knockback better.

I also like Lucas' dair better, but a lot of Ness players like that all powerful spike.

Unlike the above examples though, you will find almost NO ONE who likes Ness' PSI magnet over Lucas'. I mean, why would you?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I can understand Ademisk liking the bat's power. I most certainly do, but the knockback is only like 4% better than the stick, and the range doesn't seem much better either.

SAKURAAAAAAAII!!

 

[Conda]

Yeah, the bat has laughable knockback power over the bat. The bat is better for racking up damage, but who cares? Lucas's stick can be used when a tilt attack can be used thanks to it's speed.
Meaning, it can be used very often.

 

[Raheelp]

I can only hit with it if my opponents underestimate the what looks to be invisible tip zone.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'd buff Ness this way. Let you jump cancel PSI magnet whenever you want even if it doesn't absorb =P

 

[cHooKay]

Regarding the stick > bat thing, why is lucas's magnet so clearly better in every way compared to ness's magnet? So silly to go out of your way to make one character better in aspects that have nothing to do with either character.

Designer 1: Hey, let's give Lucas a better PKT2 recovery than Melee Ness, give Lucas tether recovery, and nerf Ness's PKT2 recovery.
Designer 2: Awright, sounds good. Oh, don't forget to make Lucas's stick faster and more reliable than Ness's baseball bat. Because, you know, sticks are like that.
Designer 1 : Awesome idea. As a tradeoff, we'll design Lucas as a whiny, scared, smileless child to offset the obvious preference we've given him.
Designer 2: Makes sense.

Hahahah LOL. Sadly, this seems like this was the case as far as how ness and lucas turned out to be in brawl. I don't know if it was Sakurai or some other designer idea, but it seems like they like Lucas better, giving him a moveset that are more suitable in more situations than ness' moveset, and at the same time lucas being a distant 'clone' of ness. Ness should've been better than he is right now in brawl, but nevertheless, he's not too bad. And freaking Earthbound is one of my favorite games, ness being my favorite in the game. I'm too attached in maining him because of Earthbound.

I will make Ness godly no matter what. I will make the bat better. No more complaining.

Okay, just like gimpyfish admitted to the fact that bowser sucks, then maining bowser like a ninja later, I'll just do the same with the bat.

 

[Conda]

I'm maining Ness cause he makes me smile. He's the happiest kid ever. Pause the screen when doing his up taunt, pk flash, bat, or... well, ANY of his moves.

Lucas was horribly designed as a character in Brawl. From his lame PK Fire animation and Lame PK Thunder animation (and HORRIBLE post-PKT2 no-jumps-left falling animation), to his wimpy idle animation (flies are in my face!) and scared/depressed facial expressions.

I cannot wait to play Mother 3, however. I've heard good things about Lucas's character in that game. I've got no doubt that that game is going to be awesome, and I can play it once the fan translation is done. I WANT to like Lucas as a character in Brawl, because I know he's got it in him, but the fact of the matter is that, in Brawl, Lucas has crappy charisma.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I'm maining Ness cause he makes me smile. He's the happiest kid ever. Pause the screen when doing his up taunt, pk flash, bat, or... well, ANY of his moves.

Lucas was horribly designed as a character in Brawl. From his lame PK Fire animation and Lame PK Thunder animation (and HORRIBLE post-PKT2 no-jumps-left falling animation), to his wimpy idle animation (flies are in my face!) and scared/depressed facial expressions.

I cannot wait to play Mother 3, however. I've heard good things about Lucas's character in that game. I've got no doubt that that game is going to be awesome, and I can play it once the fan translation is done. I WANT to like Lucas as a character in Brawl, because I know he's got it in him, but the fact of the matter is that, in Brawl, Lucas has crappy charisma.

Are you kidding? Lucas's animations are excellent. He has so much more character in this game than Ness does. *grumble grumble* I love his little flaily arms neutral stance and how his spins gracefully after falling from PKThunder2. Ness just flops on his butt. Lucas also does a little ninja pose with his fingers while he's doing PK thunder. There's nothing lame about his PK thunder animation, it's got more style to it than Ness's "I'm just gonna throw up my arms and then crouch for a bit pressing my temples."

He most certainly does not have crappy charaisma, quite the opposite. At least he's not stuck with a permenant smile on his face like SOME characters.

I was really hoping they'd give Ness a lot more personality in Brawl, but it just seems like they've dusted him off from Melee and changed very little about his animations. At the very least he doesn't smile when he's hit now, which was something that always bugged me in Melee.

Even in Subspace Emissary, Ness is just a Deus Ex!

"Hey Lucas! You have no idea who I am because I come from a totally different time period from you, but I'm here to rescue you! Look how I can somehow destroy the Pig King statue using PK thunder and Flash, and look at me do cartwheels! Oh crap, you're being shot at, well I'll just be the pristine self-sacrificing hero stereotype and take the blast instead of just yoiking you out of the way with my PSI powers olololololol*statued*"

But then again, Ness's personality is killrobot, so maybe they outright couldn't give him much more personality.

 

[Conda]

Most characters in games back in the SNES days were 2d. Save FFXI and some few others.
Can't blame Ness for that.

I think they just gave Lucas tacky animations. The supersaiyan PK Fire shooting animation isn't fitting, nor is his "I has a superpower" animation for PK Thunder.
But we can agree to disagree, because this is all opinion on who we think was designed better. No need to debate.

 

[cHooKay]

I thought Lucas was suposed to be quite, shy, and timid. Pretty much the closest thing there is to ness in mother 3 would probably be lucas' twin brother claus (the orange hair lucas in brawl with the yellow and blue shirt is actually claus for those who do not know). I think they got lucas alright in brawl. Also, ness was always happy go lucky in earthbound, at the same time always praised for being couragous and righteous at the same time, just an all around good kid, sort of like the conversations snake has about ness...

Anyways, I think we can all sadly agree that the stick owns the bat. I can't even use the bat against all the speedy pro players out there, and I get punished for doing so all the time.

Can we just think of ways to improve are usage of the bat instead of just debating if the bat was nerfed, because I admit to the fact that it pretty much sucks right now.

Look at it this way, ness has three almost useless moves, PK Magnet (I almost never use this move, only good against mainly slow projectiles at a far distance ONLY, and sucks in every way when you compare it to lucas'), PK flash, and the bat.

We need to acknowledge the fact that these three moves aren't that great, and develop techniques to use them properly.

 

[Earthbound360]

GACK!
Why must every topic result in a Lucas vs. Ness debate!?

Cant we all just agree that they're BOTH awesome?

But I do like Lucas' animations better.
Spinning fall > butt slam.

 

[thesage]

Spinning fall > butt slam.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

I disagree. I do not concur. INCORRECT STATMENT.

 

[Conda]

I cant stand Lucas's spinning shmeel, along with his PKT animation. He's trying too hard. lol