Warlock punch and Super Armor Shenanigans

[TheBearsnake]

So I feel like the warlock punch is only good for punishing huge over-commitments like flare blitz thanks to the super armor.

Speaking of which I've been getting pretty consistent free warlock punches on flare blitz. Anyone know any other moves that are borderline free hits?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Rest, Warlock Punch, Falcon Punch, guessing a Smash Attack with huge end lag. It's rather situational.

 

[TheBearsnake]

Rest, Warlock Punch, Falcon Punch, guessing a Smash Attack with huge end lag. It's rather situational.

I guess to be more specific, When I notice a Charizard starting up a flare blitz in my direction, I start a warlock punch, He connects and bounces off the super armor just in range of a free warlock punch. It's almost silly.

I am wondering not so much on things like rest where they are vulnerable after but more along the lines of during there own moves where it is less situational and very realistically reliable, for example I haven't tested this against ikes forward special but that move may work. How ever I don't think you can realistically get a punch started in the middle of someones smash and being in position without jumping or turning (which I believe negates the armor, correct me if I am wrong).

Warlock punch is possibly at its most viable form yet with super armor and it would be awesome to be viable considering how powerful it is, even if it's 1 ko a match. It kills so low and frustrates the crap out of people that fall for it.

 

[PSIBoy]

I guess to be more specific, When I notice a Charizard starting up a flare blitz in my direction, I start a warlock punch, He connects and bounces off the super armor just in range of a free warlock punch. It's almost silly.

I am wondering not so much on things like rest where they are vulnerable after but more along the lines of during there own moves where it is less situational and very realistically reliable, for example I haven't tested this against ikes forward special but that move may work. How ever I don't think you can realistically get a punch started in the middle of someones smash and being in position without jumping or turning (which I believe negates the armor, correct me if I am wrong).

Warlock punch is possibly at its most viable form yet with super armor and it would be awesome to be viable considering how powerful it is, even if it's 1 ko a match. It kills so low and frustrates the crap out of people that fall for it.

I once blew away a Villager using his rocket to recover.

 

[TheBearsnake]

I once blew away a Villager using his rocket to recover.

That makes perfect sense, I guess you have to count on the villager not bailing out before the rocket arrives.

 

[Z1GMA]

A really stupid yet fun way to use it is to buffer it after climbing up from the ledge.
It sometimes works against those ppl who likes to charge smashes by the ledge.

 

[Opana]

Ganonfist

In the event they do wish to Thunder, this may be able to be replicated although highly unlikely.

 

[TheBearsnake]

A really stupid yet fun way to use it is to buffer it after climbing up from the ledge.
It sometimes works against those ppl who likes to charge smashes by the ledge.

I actually tried this on a whim yesterday and it worked. It was the second punch I pulled off in the fight under 70% and they rage quit. DDD is pretty easy to get.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I actually tried this on a whim yesterday and it worked. It was the second punch I pulled off in the fight under 70% and they rage quit. DDD is pretty easy to get.

Gonna have to try this myself.

 

[TheBearsnake]

Also works as a great guard against people who attack while coming up the ledge. Though no one ever tried that twice after the first time they got hit. Low % kills with the warlock punch is maybe a harder hit on the psyche than Ganoncide. Very demoralizing.

 

[Chaleb]

Also works as a great guard against people who attack while coming up the ledge. Though no one ever tried that twice after the first time they got hit. Low % kills with the warlock punch is maybe a harder hit on the psyche than Ganoncide. Very demoralizing.

Yeah I discovered this yesterday. It's actually the most consistent way to get Warlock Punches IMO (though it won't work more than once or twice against the same person), because a lot of times people will on instinct go for the get-up attack which you power through with super armor.

It's probably the most disrespectful way of killing someone

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I've used it as a "counter" before I waited for the oppenent to do a laggy attack (like Flare blitz, Bowser's Fsmash etc.) and press B works very well.

Also if you condition your opponent to do a "get up attack" after Flame Choke you can use warlock punch super armor to "eat" their attack and than WP will hit 100%.

Best way to condition the foe to do the get up attack I found is;
-do flame choke to down tilt or f tilt a little late for a follow up. So they will want to punish you for that.
-charge a smash attack. Almost like a free hit on their part.

Do those a couple of times and wait till the foe is at KO % and BAM! "Free" Warlock Punch.

 

[Xinc]

I often find Warlock Punching to be the epitome of sticking your tongue at your opponent. It's funny but also humiliating. Usually I like to Warlock Punch after I get a person close to an edge so they're technically trapped.

 

[Lilfut]

If you catch a Jigglypuff whiffing Rest, you don't want to use Warlock Punch.

You want to use utilt.

 

[_Magus_]

If you catch a Jigglypuff whiffing Rest, you don't want to use Warlock Punch.

You want to use utilt.

A truer word was never spoken.

 

[HeavyLobster]

If you catch a Jigglypuff whiffing Rest, you don't want to use Warlock Punch.

You want to use utilt.

You want to use Reverse Warlock Punch actually, though Utilt is almost as good, and is the best choice if you're running an alternative custom B.

 

[Lilfut]

Not as much disrespect.

 

[Xcano]

I have tried this, didn't work so well. Try again?

 

[fromundaman]

Not as much disrespect.

But a Utilt is a lot easier to land in a real match against a large part of the cast anyway.

 

[TheBearsnake]

Honestly there is a good chance that an Usmash or Fsmash are about as good if not better then anything in most circumstances on a whiffed rest. warlock punch works best as a pseudo counter, trickier on certain moves albeit. utilt seems best as an edge guarding tool to me, Not really terribly practical outside of that. Neither are easy to land, but both have niches (That are very likely irrelevant).

 

[fromundaman]

Honestly there is a good chance that an Usmash or Fsmash are about as good if not better then anything in most circumstances on a whiffed rest. warlock punch works best as a pseudo counter, trickier on certain moves albeit. utilt seems best as an edge guarding tool to me, Not really terribly practical outside of that. Neither are easy to land, but both have niches (That are very likely irrelevant).

I've won tournament matches against high level tournament players (Like Fizzle Boy) with Utilt edge-guarding. While it has niche uses, I will not say it is an irrelevant move.

I don't use WP enough to comment on that though.

 

[TheBearsnake]

I've won tournament matches against high level tournament players (Like Fizzle Boy) with Utilt edge-guarding. While it has niche uses, I will not say it is an irrelevant move.

I don't use WP enough to comment on that though.

That's fair, I think its more appropriate to say it may become irrelevant. As People wise up to it or whether the Ganon decides to go for a Dair will determine its relevance in the future. BUT I believe 100% when used properly its one of if not his safest edgeguarding tools, I'm just not sure how reliable it will be. Even with the risk factors Ganon is a force off the edge to returning players.

WP I feel has some safe options that once the foe has initiated his move, it can be devastating, borderline guaranteed. Just not a whole lot, and its almost too much trouble to go hunting for those moments.

 

[fromundaman]

Well I think it will remain useful if we use it in such a way as to intercept people going to the ledge, especially if we abuse the fact that there is no ledge invincibility on frame 1.

 

[TheBearsnake]

Anything is possible for the Dark Lord! A thunderstomp is easier for frame 1 ledge punishing to me, but that's just me. Hard to beat a well placed Dair.

 

[KieRanaRan]

Just today I was fighting Link, standard stuff. He throws his boomerang, I dodge it and decide to hit b on the retun. The gust sweeps me right in front of him. Bam! Dead.

It was soooo f*cking satisfying.

 

[JmacAttack]

I recently fought a Marth who loved to do jumping Shield Breakers to approach. I decided to do a Warlock Punch the next time he'd start one up, and he saw it, but it was too late. He poked the armor, and got sent to the shadow realm.

Another Marth always did a full jump forward, then fade back at the apex, then use his second jump to hop into melee range. Every time. I saw him do the first jump up on his last stock, so I started the up-tilt at the apex. He immediately did his second jump forward, only realizing his mistake after it was too late to get out of the way.

He ragequit. I cackled.

 

[Beman]

has anyone seen what happens when lil mac ko uppercuts ganon when he's charging the warlock punch?
cuz if ganon ivinc's throught the uppercut...

 

[Lilfut]

Here's some crazy Super Armor shenanigans:

Insert air horns as needed.

 

[adom4]

Does anyone know if it has super armor against the KO punch?

 

[MagiusNecros]

I can try testing it later.

 

[TheBearsnake]

Here's some crazy Super Armor shenanigans:

Insert air horns as needed.

Nailed it

 

[MagiusNecros]

So we can't WP cheese the KO Punch. However we can Flame Choke it. We basically grab Mac and the Momentum of the KO punch will push Ganon and Mac in the direction Mac was facing. The beauty of it is Ganon still gets off the Flame Choke. You can achieve this at any point where Dark energy surrounds Ganon's hand I believe.

And for fun I tried KO Punch against a reactionary Bowser Upsmash. And Bowser negates it completely. No damage either.

So Super Armor like WP and Charizard Rock Smash probably won't cut it. Needs to be either Autoguard, a good dodge or get lucky and grab him out of it.

And Ganon's Autoguard on his Up Smash doesn't cover the angle Mac's Punch will come from unlike Bowser where the Autoguard is pretty much everywhere.

But with Flame Choke we can easily faze out a KO punch simply by short hop Uair/Bair into a Choke because of those IASA frame mechanics allowing us to go immediately into Choke. And indeed the KO Punch will be choked away from him. After those initial 6 seconds that KO punch is ripe to take away.

 

[JmacAttack]

Just had a great bout of shenanigans on Anther's Ladder, which was great because I got to see their reactions afterwards. Me vs. Shulk, we're both high percent and last stock, we both land onstage next to each other at the exact same time, and on the exact same frame, he hits his downsmash, I hit Warlock Punch. He spun around fruitlessly and got nailed in the face. I was so psyched I forgot to save the replay. He took it better than expected.

"Holy ****. Bruh, I ain't even mad."

I did manage to save an even funnier replay. Anther's Ladder, me vs. Dedede on Yoshi's. He hangs on the ledge, so I walk to the center of the stage and prepare an up-tilt. He gets up and decides to punish me with a Gordo, but Dedede is fat, and Yoshi's is a small stage. He gets hit by the initial blast, and his Gordo ricochets back and hits him too, killing him instantly.