Wario: Official Character Discussion

[Ulevo]

Discussion for Wario. Anyone can suggest anything for any of these topics, and it'll be noted. Popular suggestions/values will be marked as such. Final values will be determined by popularity, so voice your opinion!

Suggested Offensive Modifications:

Suggested Defensive Modifications:


Default Physics:
SH:
FH:
FF:
DGrav:
Grav:

Physics Changes:

Specific Move Fixes:


Anything else:

 

[goodoldganon]

Hopefully this gets these boards more active now that we are so close to starting character balance.

Let's speed up his D-tilt a little to give him more options on the approach, or at least a good ground one. The Stinky Finger poke has good range (for Wario), pokes low, and sets up to combos pretty well. Add that with dash dancing and canceling and we can give Wario a usable ground approach. Something he severely lacks.

 

[Revven]

Hopefully this gets these boards more active now that we are so close to starting character balance.

Let's speed up his D-tilt a little to give him more options on the approach, or at least a good ground one. The Stinky Finger poke has good range (for Wario), pokes low, and sets up to combos pretty well. Add that with dash dancing and canceling and we can give Wario a usable ground approach. Something he severely lacks.

Agreed, after playing some Wario tonight and feeling him to be real good in B+, I realized he lacks a pretty decent ground approach (aside from his DACUS which isn't always a guaranteed setup).

 

[The Cape]

D tilt and U tilt faster cooldown I can agree with. They give Wario more grounded options.

We could also lower the scaling on his jab jab which allows him more aerial followup opportunities after his jabs.

 

[Ulevo]

Question: Is there really any reason to be giving Wario, a character who was often regarded as High Tier/Top Tier in vBrawl, any of these changes? It is clearly outlined that we should be focusing on characters who are presently lacking right now.

 

[CT Chia]

wario didnt really receive that much new options in brawl+. even though hes awesome in vbrawl, there is really nothing new to his game. no real new approaches as ppl mentioned, and this is all while other characters have gained tons of enhancements to counter warios awesome camp game in vBrawl. while hes still an amazing character, he just lacks some of that new plus stuff.

i agree with a faster utilt and dtilt (in startup and cooldown) which are great combo starters and approaches. keep the jabs as cape mentioned as is. his combos wont last too long in the air, but starting something definitely helps.

 

[goodoldganon]

Question: Is there really any reason to be giving Wario, a character who was often regarded as High Tier/Top Tier in vBrawl, any of these changes? It is clearly outlined that we should be focusing on characters who are presently lacking right now.

He didn't really gain anything from B+ and like D3 he has fallen through the ranks because of it. Wario isn't as bad as D3 but he is certainly very middle of the road. Just because a character was good in vBrawl doesn't mean we need to hold them back in Brawl+.

As a somewhat random suggestion (not sure if it's even possible) but what about allowing Wario to slide with his F-Smash depending on how much he charges the F-Smash? If it becomes a conflict with the SA then just remove it. I haven't used Wario Man in a while but I'd imagine a fully charged F-Smash would go half as far as Wario Man slides.

 

[goodoldganon]

So is it just me or has Wario recieved NOTHING in any of our patches? It's not my best argument but it seems unfair and boring to not give Wario anything while everyone has at least received some attention. I want to propose my D-tilt speed up buff again.

 

[Revven]

So is it just me or has Wario recieved NOTHING in any of our patches? It's not my best argument but it seems unfair and boring to not give Wario anything while everyone has at least received some attention. I want to propose my D-tilt speed up buff again.

He doesn't need anything, that's why. Have you seen Peru vs. Cape matches yet? Those show off Wario's best potential and, me being a Wario main as well can tell you he doesn't need ANY buffs.

 

[Dark Sonic]

So is it just me or has Wario recieved NOTHING in any of our patches? It's not my best argument but it seems unfair and boring to not give Wario anything while everyone has at least received some attention. I want to propose my D-tilt speed up buff again.

Wario not getting anything is not justification for a buff.

In case you haven't noticed, Marth hasn't gotten anything either. B-throw speed up plox? (you get my point right?)

 

[goodoldganon]

Wario not getting anything is not justification for a buff.

In case you haven't noticed, Marth hasn't gotten anything either. B-throw speed up plox? (you get my point right?)

Fair enough. I'll admit I'm biased for Wario. *Grumble grumble* still want to give him faster d-tilt... *grumble grumble*

 

[CT Chia]

i used to be for the daster dtilt or utilt, but iv learned a lot more about him recently by playing him a lot

in all actuality, dont change him now, hes perfect. there are a couple of options he lacks, but no one can be perfect. the tools he does have at his disposal make him great, and he has gained some great options from brawl+ mechanic, especially his now amazing uses of fair.

wario is too cool

 

[goodoldganon]

I'd like to see vids I want to get good with him

 

[Revven]

I'd like to see vids I want to get good with him

Check out my videos GoG.

 

[CT Chia]

i have a ton of videos that il have up soon of like everyone from around my area. il make a thread in the wbr when theyr up

 

[Revven]

Alright, I'm beginning to think that we need to fix his Dthrow when we get a throw modifier. Right now it CGs the following people up to 42%:

Fox
Falco
Falcon
Bowser
Ganondorf
Sheik
Snake

I am betting now that it will ALSO CG these three (haven't tested):
Charizard
DK
Wolf

Zard and DK are both heavyweights much like Snake, Bowser, and Ganondorf are and even though they are floaty still, I am willing to bet they will get CG'd up to 42% (have not tested). Wolf being CG'd up to 42% is an obvious reason to assume because he is technically a fastfaller.

If those three aboves are able to be CG'd (which I will test tomorrow or later today) then that makes 10 characters he can CG. Don't you think that's a bit RIDICULOUS? And DISTORTS those match-ups like crazy? Every stock for the first 50% will be those characters trying to avoid getting grabbed and let me tell you, Wario can EASILY get the grab in now with these following setups:

Dair > follow DI > grab
Nair > follow DI > grab
Fair > land > grab
First hit of jab > grab

That's four ways to grab any of these characters and CG them to 42%. (Damage mind gaming them of course). I think the KBG of the throw should be upped when we get the throw modifier (IF we do). I WILL NOT REST UNTIL THIS IS FIXED. This IS NOT going to be in the 1st Gold release, **** that, we're WAITING for the throw modifier before we go Gold1 guys.

 

[goodoldganon]

We removed Falco's 'free 30-50%' from vBrawl so Wario deserves the same treatment in B+. How do we alter the d-throw but not ruin the options out of it.

P.S. I chaingrabbed all those characters last night when my buddy and I were messing around looking for broken ****, so this is legit and needs to be addressed.

 

[Revven]

Heightening the KBG will fix it. If we heighten the KBG, it won't ruin the BKB (which puts them into that special animation). The only thing heightening KBG will do is make them fall into the tumble MUCH MUCH earlier and thus, be able to tech which Wario can then just techchase them. So, say we heighten the KBG so the FFer's can tech it at 10%, that means that everyone else will be able to tech it probably on 0% and higher. Wario would then have some serious techchasing **** going on for the majority of the cast.

Either that or the angle has to be changed or the BKB. Whichever we decide to do, it HAS to fix the CG on these 7-10 characters.

 

[The Cape]

What about adding a few frames of winddown to it? He doesnt have any other followups out of it does he? That wont nerf those options at all.

We also heard doing something with his F and D smashes. Something like more winddown on F smash (due to the SA frames) and less winddown on the D smash.

Sound like something worth looking into?

 

[goodoldganon]

No, Wario doesn't need nerfs. His abysmal range is a perfectly fine weakness he is balanced around. Go ahead an buff D-smash if you want, but he doesn't need it. Also, putting lag on the end of the throw ruins the options out of it. He can f-smash, begin a tech chase, d-tilt, jab, and probably a few more things. We can either live with chain grab for Chibo's tournament or ban more then two down-throws by Wario. Don't half-*** the fix like we did with Pikachu's d-throw. (No offense)

Basically, leave Wario alone, we gave him a useable ground approach with the d-tilt buff and he is perfectly fine. Not too good, not really bad. He will probably rank around the top of the mid tiers or bottom of the highs. The ONLY fix Wario needs is this chaingrab BS he has on the 7-10 guys.

 

[The Cape]

When does F smash hit? Would adding a few more frames of lag to the D throw release take that away along with a throw?

 

[goodoldganon]

Fsmash:
Total: 44
First hits on frame 9
Super armor: 8 – 11 (notice it is only 3 frames here)
Shield hit lag: 12
Shield stun: 18
Advantage: -29

That is all under vBrawl stats FYI, taken from his frame topic http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210128&highlight=wario+frame+data