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Wario Matchup Thread

MysteriousSilver

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
774
Location
Lincoln, NE
Wario!

This matchup is pretty hard for Pit. Wario's very heavy and hits hard. He has a very good recovery in addition, so he tends not to die until later. Bite and aerials knock through a lot of our attacks, and his aerial mobility is difficult to deal with.

Discuss away.
 

Juno McGrath

Smash Hero
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Mar 28, 2009
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Raleigh, NC.
Pit has arguably one of the best projectiles in the game.

Wario, unless he breaks a bike, Dosent.

see what im getting at?

kill us with a bair when we try to recover. wait for the bike jump, then the air dodge.
 

Admiral Pit

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Well, I aint sure if we should discuss him first, but in hopes of help:

-A few basics
He is one of those difficult ones, weight, power, good recovery, good speed and mobility (for a heavyweight), all against Pit. His air camping also is very frustrating, and degrades our camping quite a lot, and makes it very difficult for us to hit him.
Both Pit's and Wario's range are close, but we probably have a bit of longer range with some moves, though lower priority. That's where spacing F-airs may have a use, but try not to use too many arrows since Wario can close in fast, not just by Bike, either; but his own decent speed, and his DACUS too, which can go quite far at its max distance.

-The Bike and its Tires
The Bike isn't that big of a threat. You can counter with a basic shielding, a D-air, maybe a SH N-air (not sure yet), a Pivot grab, or just jump outta the way. Just try not to get hit by it if you somehow are around 150%+ damage, and then it could probably kill if you are close to the ledge.
When the bike is destoyed, you got the 2 tires. Wario doesn't have a glidetoss that makes him slide far, but ours can. We could use it if we are at quite a distance from him, and use the glidetoss to quickly close in towards him, or if we need space away from Wario, glidetoss away from him, and then shoot an arrow. You should know that Wario's bite allows him to eat the tires if we throw it torwards his mouth. Also, when Wario throws a tire upwards or downwards, and when it bounces, avoid it til it stops completely, for will hit you, and this can be frustrating when you are between a bouncing tier and a Wario. We can use that strategy to our advantage when we control them, too.

-Grab scheme (or whatever to call such)
Okay, we obviously can't CG Wario with his floaty self, nor we can do the F-throw to Stutterstep Fsmash on a DIing Wario, so that limits us. Now we do have a grab release on him, ONLY IF THE WARIO STRUGGLES OUT or if we somehow grab him to where he is hanging off a ledge (what are the chances?). Should this happen, we can do the following:

-B-air (good for a kill)
-F-air (a damage option and you can push him back a bit)
-D-air (a damage option, and you can send him to the air, somewhat lethal for killing when Wario is at 170%+ damage)
-Usmash (not completely effective, but could help if you want him in the air)
-Fsmash (This isn't certain yet due to the need of more pro testing. Should this work, we are to quickly do an Fsmash ASAP, and though the first hit wont connect, the 2nd hit should, and that's one of our KO moves. This can be a decent killing alternative if we have a stale B-air).

Again, Wario either has to be hanging somewhere, or struggle out a lot to be air-released (don't pummel the moment he breaks free or he is forced to ground release), so keep that in mind, and don't rely on it too much against a smart Wario.

-Gimping: Pit to Wario
Gimping him is almost impossible since he not only has a good recovery, but can maneuver around in the air to dodge some of our attacks. What he has for a recovery are the following:
-Mid-air jump (that's obvious)
-Bike (that and jumping off of it for higher elevation)
-Up-B (Again, obvious)
-Fully-charged Waft (This is more of an emergency use and a situational type of thing)

All that plus air mobility, and he pretty much is a hard one to knock off. So um, good luck gimping him. However, should we ever get him to his Up-B only, he is somewhat easy to edgehog if we can time it.

-Gimping: Wario to Pit
Now, Wario can gimp us a bit if we are not careful, but we got a lot of options, from our 3 mid-air jumps to gliding under the stage (IF the stage grants that), We can shoot arrows as we move, or F-airs, and with Wario's poor range, we shouldn't have too much problems, I hope. Avoid PS1, PS2, and YI (and Castle Siege) if you want to glide under the stage, and you will need it so you won't get gimped as much.

-On the Defense
Pit wil probably have to be defensive since Wario has a string of quick and multi-hit moves (D-air, N-air, F-air mostly noted in these categories) like Pit, and it can pressure your shield if you don't get outta the way fast, though we can shieldgrab sometimes depending on where Wario will go after his attacks finish.
As for when we are on the ledge, it is hard to deal with him. His bite should keep much of our stuff at bay, from us airdodging onto the stage, and I believe F-air (it has super armor frames when we hit him and he catches us at the same time), and his air camping should allow him to avoid much of our arrows. Hopefully we can deal with this somehow.

I feel that this would be 40:60 Wario's advantage, let alone that he can get past our arrows easily and catch up to us kinda well, sort of like Marth, except Wario has much less range, but is heavier and has a much better recovery that is very hard to gimp.

As for stages, not much is known to me yet, but do stay away from Japes and YI.
 

Stryks

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Gimping Wario is kinda tricky, we all know he has a:
- Jump
- Bike jump
- Upb
- Waft

To recover, but the waft takes 2 minutes to fully charge (I think it's 2 minutes, can't recall) and while It can be used before that it won't get the same amount of height.
However to gimp his bike recovery you gotta time it right and in the first few frames of the bike, right around before or a tad after it does a little jump, hit him Wario (not the bike) with an arrow, this will make him fall and thus limiting him with an Upb, which most of the time won't reach.

I'm sure you hitting him with an aerial during the bike animation will have the same result but I usually if not always go for the arrow, got the timing kinda down.


Where Wario excels that, IMO, is his aerials, he has some insane DI, he can do most of his aerials, hit you, and DI away from you before the animation ends, it makes it very hard to shield grab him unless he fast falls, doesn't DI or did the attack to late having landing lag after the move.

Apperantly if Wario let's go when you grab him, and goes into the air, you can do pretty much anything against him, I saw a Marth grab wario, releases him, and then hitting him with a tipped fsmash, I'm sure with Pit he would have to move fast to hit him with an aerial and maybe an Usmash can hit him too.

Also because of his mobility in the air it's kinda hard to hit arrows, so shoot only a few, enough to get him to approach. You can't chaingrab him so I recommend a dthrow into bair/fair, most of the time Wario will either air dodge, dair or jump, if they airdodge you can hit them with a bair/fair during the end of the animation, other times he'll dair cause, if he knows how pit plays, he'll expect an uair, delay the move so his attack ends while you jump and do an uair, if he jumps then it's gonna be kinda hard to hit him.
 

cp2

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
21
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Spain
I had some problems in this matchup before, but playing I learned a few basic things that makes it easier (but still some problems)

The first thing I would say is that arrows are not good here, if wario dodges, you wont hit; and when time passes, wario gets the fart, so first thing: do not abuse of arrows

The basic positioning I think, it's nearly always when there is an horizontal line between wario and pit (but not following him very high in the air); wario's dair and uair will be dificult to connect, and pit has fair's range to win his other aerials; of course this may change depending on wario's style, because, like in all matchups we can't camp, we have to change playstyle to do better... pit's a hard character...

killing IS a problem, what I do is random stuff between smashes, to make killing moves more unpredictable, but I know that's not a reliable way xD...

pit never gets gimped. And you can gimp wario, shootin him out of his motorbike, but it's reallly dificult

45-55 wario's favour i'd say, but more 40:60 than even
 

Cha0tic NiGhTmArE

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
296
Location
Lakeway(at least 30 minuites from anywhere), TX
Well, I aint sure if we should discuss him first, but in hopes of help:

-Grab scheme (or whatever to call such)
Okay, we obviously can't CG Wario with his floaty self, nor we can do the F-throw to Stutterstep Fsmash on a DIing Wario, so that limits us. Now we do have a grab release on him, ONLY IF THE WARIO STRUGGLES OUT or if we somehow grab him to where he is hanging off a ledge (what are the chances?). Should this happen, we can do the following:

-B-air (good for a kill)
-F-air (a damage option and you can push him back a bit)
-D-air (a damage option, and you can send him to the air, somewhat lethal for killing when Wario is at 170%+ damage)
-Usmash (not completely effective, but could help if you want him in the air)
-Fsmash (This isn't certain yet due to the need of more pro testing. Should this work, we are to quickly do an Fsmash ASAP, and though the first hit wont connect, the 2nd hit should, and that's one of our KO moves. This can be a decent killing alternative if we have a stale B-air).

Again, Wario either has to be hanging somewhere, or struggle out a lot to be air-released (don't pummel the moment he breaks free or he is forced to ground release), so keep that in mind, and don't rely on it too much against a smart Wario.

-Gimping: Pit to Wario
Gimping him is almost impossible since he not only has a good recovery, but can maneuver around in the air to dodge some of our attacks. What he has for a recovery are the following:
-Mid-air jump (that's obvious)
-Bike (that and jumping off of it for higher elevation)
-Up-B (Again, obvious)
-Fully-charged Waft (This is more of an emergency use and a situational type of thing)

All that plus air mobility, and he pretty much is a hard one to knock off. So um, good luck gimping him. However, should we ever get him to his Up-B only, he is somewhat easy to edgehog if we can time it.

If you get him to air release and you plan to use Fsmash, you have to slightly charge it to hit him with both swings(been tested)

if you predict the timing of the bike, you can hit him with an arrow and make him loose that jump, so therefore chase him.
 

Admiral Pit

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You sure the Wario can't DI upwards or away to escape the Fsmash? We could use some vids to help out.
As for the Bike, we need to aim it at Wario, since the bike can be a temporary projectile shield (ROB Laser and Lucas PKT are excluded due to piercing abilities).
 

-_skinny_-

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If theres a wheel on stage i like to glidetoss thru warioand throw it back, arrow, grab wheel n repeat. I've done it maybe twice in friendlies... it racks up a bit of damage but not a significant amount, but it is good mindgames
 

Don Guero

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Wario has an amazing spot dodge and an amazing air dodge. these two combined with air mobility render our arrows useless. Wario beats us up close with safe approaches and a great defensive game. i really dont see what pit can do agaist Wario
 

Cha0tic NiGhTmArE

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Lakeway(at least 30 minuites from anywhere), TX
You sure the Wario can't DI upwards or away to escape the Fsmash? We could use some vids to help out.
As for the Bike, we need to aim it at Wario, since the bike can be a temporary projectile shield (ROB Laser and Lucas PKT are excluded due to piercing abilities).
he can't.. if you get an air break, you can pratically do any air attack including a sweet spot bair, fsmash, usmash..it just isn't really amazing because Pit can't force the air break
 

CaptainPlatypus

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Seems like it would be a lot nicer if there was just one matchup thread? Or atleast take the information from the ones that are "completed" and put it into a single thread. Boards are pretty out of shape right now...
 

IrisKong

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Seems like it would be a lot nicer if there was just one matchup thread? Or atleast take the information from the ones that are "completed" and put it into a single thread. Boards are pretty out of shape right now...
LoL, your preaching to the choir. good luck with that, why you think I stopped trying?
 

CaptainPlatypus

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LoL, your preaching to the choir. good luck with that, why you think I stopped trying?
Just saying it would be nice. Close the ones that are already discussed and make one large thread, and just keep updating it with the new matchups that get discussed. I would take the initiative to start doing that, but I figured it would be more appreciated if someone more "known" within the community would do so.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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The answer to this is my previous post.
No it's not. You want a single match up thread you want to organize the information then take the initiative and do so. Nothing will come from you waiting for more experienced players or well known players to do something. Put the effort and work in and I'm sure the pit community will back you up it's pretty simple.
 

CaptainPlatypus

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No it's not. You want a single match up thread you want to organize the information then take the initiative and do so. Nothing will come from you waiting for more experienced players or well known players to do something. Put the effort and work in and I'm sure the pit community will back you up it's pretty simple.
Oh, I'm not refusing to do so. I was just stating that it would be nice, so if someone more known wanted to do that, they could. If no one is going to, I'd have no problem starting to take action.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Oh, I'm not refusing to do so. I was just stating that it would be nice, so if someone more known wanted to do that, they could. If no one is going to, I'd have no problem starting to take action.
Then take action and make sure you come correct.
 

Katana_koden

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This chat should be in another thread. Back on topic about wario please.

I don't see why he is hard , shooting arrows is predictable regardless so how can wario be the spotlight of negating arrows if alot of characters can evade them.

Smash DI isn't guaranteed, just more likely to happen if predicted apon punishment. Upwards DI is a Natural habit on higher play, and UPsmash kills if you change it up.

His camping is just a mind game on approach, just predict his blind spot such as landing zones.
 

IrisKong

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Wario wins this matchup up, although probably not by much.

We cant grab release him (his biggest flaw IMO)
We cant force him to approach because of his amazing air camping ability
We cant kill very well.

He kills us at low % with Fsmash Ftilt and Fart
He is hard to gimp (trust me, good warios know how to recover and arent going to get arrow killed)
He punches people in the nuts.

Ban Brinstar
Hope he doesnt ban FD
 
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