Wario is HIGH TIER material.

[Kyu Puff]

I just played Brawl all day (tons of matches), and played almost exclusively Wario. I'll admit: For the most part, I was only able to play in FFAs or Team Battles because there was one Japanese Wii in the store, with a tourney-load of people. However, I did get a good feel for his move set and abilities, and can confidently say that there is no chance that he will fall lower than middle tier.

If you look at why low tiers were low tiers in Melee, it is obvious that they were all lacking something. Mewtwo was large, stupidly light, and lacked good KO moves. Pichu had absolutely terrible range. Bowser was slow, huge, and lacked mobility. Some characters, like Roy, just lacked good movesets and recovery.

Wario does not lack anything. Now, I can't be sure whether he will be "too balanced", like Mario was in Melee, or if he will be above average, but in the games I played, he felt very potent compared to other characters.

1. Wario is HEAVY.
2. Wario has decent range.
3. Wario can combo.
4. Wario can chain throw.
5. He has a GREAT recovery.
6. He has KO power.
7. He has good aerial mobility, and a good set of aerials.

Seriously, Wario is good. I didn't expect this at all. In fact, I predicted that Wario would be bottom tier, but it is so far from the truth. Wario lacks nothing; speed, comboing ability, KO power, and so on. With that said, feel free to disagree, or ask me questions about how he plays.

 

[staindgrey]

I don't doubt it, but here's the problem: the way Sakurai intended to make this game, all those "tiers" would be gone. He wanted to make sure the characters were more balanced than in Melee so a person can enjoy playing with his or her favorite character regardless of skill. I'm glad to hear the Wario's odd-looking moveset works, but most every other character has been raised- or lowered- to a more common standard from before. We'll see if the tiers will even be needed for brawl (needed or not, I'm positive they'll be made, but I hope that there will be a lot more than 4 or 5 characters used in tournaments this time around)

 

[3D King]

Wario seems really good, and I've heard people often saying Wario is like Jigglypuff with his mobility in the air. The only thing afaik that appears limiting to Wario is probably his recovery.

 

[Warlock*G]

2. Wario has decent range.

That I find hard to believe from what I've seen.

 

[paralasalud]

I'm glad to hear the Wario's odd-looking moveset works, but most every other character has been raised- or lowered- to a more common standard from before. We'll see if the tiers will even be needed for brawl (needed or not, I'm positive they'll be made, but I hope that there will be a lot more than 4 or 5 characters used in tournaments this time around)

i agree, but it's near impossible to balance a game. although brawl does look promisingly balanced, people/pros haven't torn the game's mechanics apart yet. until then it looks pretty balanced. and i really do hope your last statement is true.

 

[ZeroBeat]

His recovery is actually pretty good. You can use his motorcycle to get some serious air when you jump off of it, and you can also use a fully charged Waft as a last resort.

 

[Warlock*G]

1. Wario is HEAVY.
2. Wario has decent range.
3. Wario can combo.
4. Wario can chain throw.
5. He has a GREAT recovery.
6. He has KO power.
7. He has good aerial mobility, and a good set of aerials.

8. Wario's got super-armor frames at the beginning of his signature move (that his, the shoulder bash, which is his forward smash)

 

[paralasalud]

His recovery is actually pretty good. You can use his motorcycle to get some serious air when you jump off of it, and you can also use a fully charged Waft as a last resort.

i haven't seen much of his bike recovery besides a video of a match with jiano.
does anyone know if the jump off the bike counts as an actual jump? or would it give wario a 3rd midair jump?

edit: i also REALLY want to see his wall jump.

 

[GotACoolName]

I believe the bike jump is actually a bonus and does not count as your double jump. A well charged Wario Waft also gives a very large boost, so Wario's recovery isn't bad at all.

 

[staindgrey]

i haven't seen much of his bike recovery besides a video of a match with jiano.
does anyone know if the jump off the bike counts as an actual jump? or would it give wario a 3rd midair jump?

edit: i also REALLY want to see his wall jump.

Yeah, think Luigi's Green Missle, only with an arc. The only thing that sucks is if you get out your bike before you need it, and it's still on the course being unused. There can only be one bike out at a time.

In other words, don't use your bike until you need to recover.

But, on Wario, he seems, by videos at least, to have some Melee Bowser in him, where he's powerful- but you have to connect. His moves just don't look all that quick the majority of the time, and seem rather easy to dodge. But in the air, he actually seems a lot quicker. He's definitely suited for air battles, which is weird since we're talking about Wario.

"I'm-a gonna win!!!" <--- (from MK64) should totally be his taunt

 

[sexyngo]

yea his aerials are quick with little lag.. you can bust two Fairs in one SH.. but his only real aerial kill move his Uair

hes gangstaaaaaaa

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

His recovery is really bad, as bad as ganons. The only thing that makes it decent his is fart, and that takes a long time to charge and is mostly vertical.

And his range is really bad too.

Everything else i can't argue if true or not.

 

[Paxz]

I cant wait to put my hands on wario in this brawl game!! really looking forward to do it, the good thing is I've been reading too many good critics about him.

 

[Kyu Puff]

First of all, something I forgot to mention. His aerials are quick, with little beginning or ending lag (other than b-air, which does lag when you land). The thing that makes them great? They all have long duration! Duration gives his aerials a great advantage, especially with his mobility in the air. (His aerial mobility definitely wasn't as strong as Jigglypuff's from the last game, but it was noticeable enough, and he is floaty enough, to move back and forth with his long duration aerials before he lands).

Now, onto range. Wario's range isn't fantastic, but it's nothing to scoff at. His b-air, n-air, and d-smash all extend his body parts out, and make him one large hitbox. His d-smash is also pretty fast, but lasts an extremely long time, so you'd better get it to connect. His d-tilt and f-tilt both had good range also, although somewhat slower than his other moves. His u-air has bad horizontal range, but does easily hit above him and can be used as a kill move.

His recovery is great, as I said in my previous post. Wario is one of the heavier characters in the game (6th heaviest?), which obviously gives him an advantage over lighter characters because he has to recover less distance. Second, if you DI upwards, you shouldn't die unless the knockback was lethal. His bike gives him a monstrous horizontal boost, and a BIG extra jump which should alone be enough to recover! His bike can also protect him from projectiles (as far as I could tell). Then you have your second jump, in addition to the fact that he's floaty and can manipulate his aerial movement well, and with that I never had trouble recovering. In fact, I rarely needed his up+B unless I DI'd wrong or couldn't use my bike.

His fully charged Waft is huge. Usually I used it as an attack because it was absolutely hilarious, but I actually killed myself of the top on the wind stage in Pokemon Stadium 2.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

Wario looks pretty good from what you've said! He may just be high tier if he can deal with the likes of shiek, fox, and Pit.

Can I also ask a questio about wario? Is he a big target or a small target?

 

[kid _icarus]

i was gonna main pit or pokemon trainer anyway but ill give wario a try when i get it. btw what was his final smash like?

 

[Kyu Puff]

Almost all characters are big targets. You can u-smash someone through a platform on Battlefield, which usually didn't reach in Melee. It was weird, and spacing felt a lot easier. But yeah, Wario isn't a small target, you can be sure. The only characters the I noticed to be much smaller were Olimar, Squirtle, and Toon Link (and Lucas was fairly small).


We did play with Final Smashes sometimes, and his is plain awesome. He has huge horizontal and vertical speed. His aerials cause him to float and he can spam the same aerial to chain many of them together. His f-smash turns into a huge Shoulder Tackle and he dashes far with it (it has good knockback). His Bike comes out and travels extremely quickly, but can kill you if you try to use it in the air (although it is good on ground). Lasts for around 20 seconds.

 

[Layupfreak]

cool, good for wario

 

[GigaMan]

2 questions.

1. How do you make wario have good recovery, fill me In plz?

2. Does Wario have alot of power?

 

[Warlock*G]

2 questions.

1. How do you make wario have good recovery, fill me In plz?

2. Does Wario have alot of power?

1. You use his bike in midair, which gives you huge horizontal recovery, then you jump off his bike which leads you pretty high, and there goes the vertical recovery. (If you wanna get a better idea, go watch the 22nd video in the thread: "Compilation of Wario videos")

2. A lot of power? As far as I've seen, not as much as Ike or Bowser, but he's above average. His Fsmash does about 20% damage, has super armor FTW, and has good knockback which can kill a little above 100%.

 

[GigaMan]

Sounds good I think I am going to be a Wario and Metaknight player now.

 

[Agent 1337]

Wario is high-tier material? That's new; it'll be fun if Wario turns out to be high-tier and everyone starts playing as him all the time. Not fun for me, though, as I like the characters I play as to be mid-ish, but I guess I'll survive.

Wario sure does seem to be shaping up to be an interesting character. His Final Smash seems to be bringing extreme depth into Wario mindgames, and add that to the fact that he's just a zany, unpredictable character perfectly suited for mindgames in the first place and you've got yourself a brute.

As Wario would say, have a rotten day! (Not really. But still, have a GOOD day.)

 

[Blue sHell]

Sorry, but Wario does not have decent range at all. Really.

His speed makes up for it a bit, but really he is the most close ranged fighter in the game.

 

[misterbee180]

I don't doubt it, but here's the problem: the way Sakurai intended to make this game, all those "tiers" would be gone. He wanted to make sure the characters were more balanced than in Melee so a person can enjoy playing with his or her favorite character regardless of skill. I'm glad to hear the Wario's odd-looking moveset works, but most every other character has been raised- or lowered- to a more common standard from before. We'll see if the tiers will even be needed for brawl (needed or not, I'm positive they'll be made, but I hope that there will be a lot more than 4 or 5 characters used in tournaments this time around)

Even if Sakurai's intensions were to balance the game there is no way that a game could ever be "balanced". Not at this level of gameplay anyway. The only way this would ever be possible is for all chars to have the same name, be a 2x4x4 box, be all blue, and have the exact same attacks and damage and every other detail. There are just too many factors in a game this expansive for a truly balanced game to ever occure. I do feel however that because they were attempting to create a balanced game the results will be much closer.

With the topic of this board however from what i've watched wario has alot of mind games built into his normal mechanics (movement, attacks, ect) so he should have quite an advantage in the beginnning.

 

[Blarfenzo]

Sounds good Wario does look pretty decent but as others have said so far his range looks pretty bad, and isn't his recovery without a fully charged Wario Waft not all that impressive?

Either way I'm glad Wario looks great and I think it was awesome that they made the shoulder tackle his forward smash, I was worried awhile back when I didn't see it in his B-moves.

 

[Warlock*G]

Sounds good Wario does look pretty decent but as others have said so far his range looks pretty bad, and isn't his recovery without a fully charged Wario Waft not all that impressive?

His range is bad, that's true; according to sHell he is "the most close-ranged fighter in the game". However, you can use his bike to close in on opponents.

And Wario's recovery? It's *awesome*, thanks to said bike. Just use it in the air (horizontal distance covered) and jump off of it (vertical distance covered). You won't even need your up B.

 

[brawlmaniac]

I thought he would be pretty bad too lol. I was wrong.

 

[Hey_its_YO]

wario is such a great char thx for the post

 

[Warlock*G]

Why did you remove all of your observations?

I wanted to know more about Wario's super armor. Just one frame, huh?

 

[-Aether]

Warios biggest strengths:

Insane D.I., Spamable (comboable) low knockback aerials, Heaviness, insane recovery (up, down, and over-B all help recover.) High mobility and low lag in the air, in general.

Middle of the road:

Killing potential. Has 2-3 solid kill moves. Up-air and F-smash kill, so does Wario Waft. Run speed is average. His grab game is about average.

Disadvantages:

Horrible priority and range in general. Decently large target, relatively weak set of ground moves. His best ground moves are U-tilt, F-smash, and F-tilt. His Neutral A combos are really bad compared to like, every other character.

 

[Blue sHell]

Killing potential. Has 2-3 solid kill moves. Up-air and F-smash kill, so does Wario Waft. Run speed is average. His grab game is about average.

Disadvantages:

Horrible priority and range in general. Decently large target, relatively weak set of ground moves. His best ground moves are U-tilt, F-smash, and F-tilt. His Neutral A combos are really bad compared to like, every other character.

His Ftilt actually is actually a very useful killing move to, it's his third best KO move not counting a fully powered waft.

You also forgot to mention that he is an EXTREMELY good edgegaurder, he could literally chase you from almost anywhere off the stage and still make it back.

And for his disadvantages, I don't see how you think he's decently large He's just a tad fatter than Mario and basically the same height as him. Tons of other characters are bigger. And he has a chaingrab'esque strat against many chars AND his neutral A could be comboed into a grab or a Fsmash.

And War, the Fsmash super armor is more than 1 frame, but it does only last BEFORE the move hits. Afterwards he's still vulerable. Not for too long though.

 

[Warlock*G]

And War, the Fsmash super armor is more than 1 frame, but it does only last BEFORE the move hits. Afterwards he's still vulerable. Not for too long though.

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know.

 

[Wekk]

A few things:

Wario is heavy, yet has one of the BEST recoveries in the game, and that's excluding a charged wario waft. His bike gives him great horizontal distance as well as gives him a free jump off of it. He can make the reverse Hyrule jump from the bottom to the top without the need for waft. Not only that, but its hard to ledgeguard wario when you angle his bike to absorb attacks for him. All in all, I'd say he's one of the hardest in the game to KO whether it be stage knockback or KO.

Again for a heavyweight, his moves are generally pretty fast. Fair is REALLY good and easily spammable, Uair is great for KOing and has decent prioroty for above you. ground AA is actually pretty good, second hit launches them and leads to potential combo.

It's been said before he has decent grab game, which is good because he also isn't THAT slow comparatively to other heavyweights.

Wario's biggest problem, as it has been for other mario brothers in melee too, is his priority against characters like marth, where basically every attack will beat any attack from Wario. This could be overcome with superarmor, but eh who knows, everyone has a weakness.

neutral B (bite) is a ridiculously good ledgeguard technique, and using it on players helps power up waft.

All in all, I would say Wario is definately a great character, especially for a heavyweight. And to the person who said it's impossible to balance games with diferent characters, look at Guilty Gear Accent Core. 23 or so different characters, all completely different, and the game is actually really balanced. I hope the same holds true for this game to an extent.

 

[Warlock*G]

Wario's biggest problem, as it has been for other mario brothers in melee too, is his priority against characters like marth, where basically every attack will beat any attack from Wario.

Look at the new "Wario vs Marth" vid. Ok, so the Marth player was really unexperienced, *but* I've seen a couple of instances where Wario and Marth's attacks hit at the same time and both of them got launched.

Translation: bad priority? Yep, but sometimes attacks just clash, which is a "lesser evil". There also subsists the problem of not having enough reach, which puts Wario at a disadvantage versus a couple of characters with disjointed hitboxes... but sHell already said this a long time ago.

 

[Wekk]

No offense, but that video isn't really the best example. The Marth player (as you stated) was pretty inexperienced, and in the comments he said that was his first game of brawl. Being that I mained Luigi in melee and had to fight pretty competent marth's a decent amount, I can tell you if he plays well he will outprioritize you most of the time. Marth's fsmash, ftilt, Nair and Fair will wreck almost all of your attacks. Super armor on warios fmash might be kinda helpful, but overall I think you just have to work on timing fairs so marth's attacks whiff.

 

[Sinistar]

Wario Waft full charged recovery is impossible to gimp as to what anyone says.

Guarunteed kill if someone tries to.

 

[Warlock*G]

No offense, but that video isn't really the best example. The Marth player (as you stated) was pretty inexperienced, and in the comments he said that was his first game of brawl.

I know that, I know it was his first game of Brawl. I've seen his commentary. To sum it up, I was just saying that bad priority can be worked around, to an extent.

Edit: and, no offense either, but I *still* think this video, if you look at some attacks clashing (whether the Marth player is experienced or not), is a better example than your Melee experience because, to put it simply, this isn't Melee we're talking about here.

 

[Mambo]

It sounds like Marth and other disjointed hitboxes will be his toughest competition. Looks like we need a few bike approaches and some serious fakes/mindgames. How do you think Perfect Shielding will help his high tier status? Is it a viable way to deal with these attacks?

 

[bayonettrials]

Perfect shielding will help all characters who have problems with priority.

And as counter intuitive as it seems with wario, against swordies playing defensive is key.

 

[IrishSheikah]

Wario Stanks!!!