VS Rosalina - Matchup Discussion and Analysis

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Rosalina Matchup Thread


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[Tomoya]

For Lucina I would recommend choosing battlefield as the stage of choice. She would have more combo options rather than choosing a flat stage. The only problem that would persist is avoiding being juggled by Rosalina's aerials. The way to avoid it would be mixing up every recovery option available.
For Marth I would recommend smashville because the game would lead to a match of spacing and making Rosalina vulnerable to making mistakes such as failed recoveries and such. Use the platform to combo when available and keep aggressive edge guarding to moments where you are less vulnerable to getting punished. This stage choose is assuming that the are no customs on btw.
Personally I've only faced a Rosalina when I was a beginner and I realized that Rosalina will have to keep her spacing and using Luma to fill the gap so learn to avoid Luma and attack Rosalina off of grabs rather than a short hop forward air approach. This is from the Lucina point of view mostly and I hope this is useful

 

[Saki-]

I heavily disagree with the picking of Battlefield against Rosalina. Anything with a platform where she can have an easier access to juggling you with uair is bad news.

After a series of friendlies and a MM I feel that for this matchup it'd be better to utilize full hops, try and use mixups with it or just spaced full hop fair to avoid getting caught up with Luma things. If you're feeling shorthops then use your nair, spaced tip on shield and follow it up if the opponent buckles.

Keep in mind, despite being a giant, Rosaluma is incredibly light. Allowing us to net a kill with Upthrow around 167% if you find yourself lacking the ability to get her off stage for the kill. Which brings up point 2. If you're going to win this match up, YOU MUST make every opportunity you get Rosalina off stage count. If you find her positioning herself for the UP B instead of trying to get back to the stage as fast as she can, ready yourself to swat her away with your aerials. If she doesn't position herself for the ledge snap, down tilt from the stage and use your best next action off stage. Don't let her get back for free, the match is uphill enough as is. If you're netting grabs you better do a pummel and throw or else Luma cheese will get you. By doing this you've quickly separated Rosalina from her Luma and can deal with the Luma quickly when near the edge.

She can beat you up off stage as well, but don't give her what she wants. Mix up your recoveries if you see the bair coming don't hit the deer in the headlights strat and just take it.

Things that did not help as much as I thought it would: ShieldBreaker, as always just use this sparingly, the reward for a little bit of damage to Luma isn't all too great when your end lag is that massive.

I'm guilty of this, but the first step is to respect Rosalina's kit when it's just her as well. Don't get caught taking free damage by things like her dash attack, that has two hits to it not just one.....so shield it like it does as for this will be a great move to punish since it seems to be the option of choice when Rosaluma players lose their trusty sidekick.

Personally I'm not a fan of the matchup, nor do I have enough experience to really give it a number. But as far as notes this is the best I can do. Hope it helps.

In Short:
No stages with high platforms, unless you're a masochistic badass.
Get Rosalina off stage and keep your damage and kills that way
Don't pummel too much on grabs, bad
Be on the lookout for dash attacks from Rosalina when it's just her, punish accordingly
Full Hop aerials or spaced nairs are you friend

 

[Tomoya]

lol I guess I do see your point but also I personally use tech chases to abuse the little opportunities given knowing Lucina can't really approach a Rosaluma because of the Luma itself. But a well timed perfect shield and out of shield grab could set off a tech chase situation where escape is little in reach with the right mindset. But your opinion is really well thought out and hopefully I could use this advice to further swing the matchup in my favor :3

 

[Pugwest]

It's like 55-45 or 50-50 Rosa favor. N-air spacing is required and Jab combo vs Luma is broken. Pretty much just need to space rly good and the MU isn't complex.

 

[Vipermoon]

Totally forgot to reply here. I just want to say Rosa players apparently hate FD so that may be decent against her.

I think the MU is slightly in her favor despite what Rosa players think. Whether online or at tourament if the Rosa player is as good in skill or better in skill than me I tend to have troubles. Even a slighlty worse player can trouble you. Signs that you don't win or go even in this MU. Sure, Rosa and Marth's design say that Marth destroys her but there are some broken properties about her (especially about Luma).

 

[Foodies]

I think it's in Rosa's favor as well, in default at least. In customs I'd say even or maybe even Marth's favor. Marth really shines over Lucina in this MU because tipper hits will send Luma into tumble way earlier than any of Lucina's attacks will. A lot of this may be stating the obvious but here:

This MU is about removing Luma and keeping Rosalina alone as long as possible. Rosalina and Luma > Marth but Marth > Rosalina. It’s worth taking a hit to get rid of Luma in some cases. Any move with some amount of knockback will send Luma into tumble. Here’s a list I got a while ago, it should still be accurate since Marth never got damage/KB nerfs from what I remember. This is for a fresh Luma; after Luma takes a few hits it will get sent in tumble more easily.

Tipped Ftilt
Tipped Utilt
Fsmash
Usmash
Dsmash
Tipped SB
DS
Any of the 4th hits of DB
Counter
Tipped Bair
Tipped second front swing of Nair
Tipped Dash attack
Both get up attacks
Jab2

I’d go for tipped fair (works after 7% or so), tipped nair second front swing, tipped bair and jab2 (doesn’t even need to be tipped). You can also lock Luma with dtilts where Rosa can’t do much about it except try to jump over and hit you which is unsafe – getting into that situation is somewhat rare though. Once Luma is gone you can do typical Marth things for almost free since her range is severely nerfed. Most Rosa’s will be very defensive when Luma is gone, and it’s worth trying to bait rolls/spotdodges in this state. You should also try to position yourself to hit Luma right when he respawns. If you really want to be amazing, keep track of the time of repawn (13 seconds) and HP (50) for Luma. The former is more useful I think since that’s the opportunity to possibly 1-shot Luma. If Luma is around, keep track of where he is because you don’t want to get hit by him after hitting Rosa.

She doesn’t have a hitbox when recovering and you need to take advantage of it. Drop down bair or fair can usually intercept it. It’s usually a 50/50 guess between her going high or going to the ledge depending on her angle. Dtilt can hit her if she goes slightly above the ledge. If she’s low and near the stage DS is an easy way to hit her but that’s usually teched.

The difficult part of this MU is just landing and getting off of the ledge. Rosa can cover all your ledge options rather easily/safely with Luma, so it’s just hoping they guess wrong rip. The same can be said for the reverse but it feels like Rosa juggles us more easily. If she doesn’t have Luma you can’t really tell which direction she’s drifting when airdodging because of the invisibility. I do want to note that one thing I look out for when on the ledge is dair since it covers hanging on the ledge, regular get up, get up attack, and jump. It’s a commitment on Rosa’s part but it can kill really early.

Random stuff:
Nair is good. After the latest patch I found the MU to be more manageable because of the buffs on the move.
If she hits you with a landing fair sometimes you bounce and can hit her with a nair or something.
If you manage to airdodge a rising uair you should be able to punish it a majority of the time.

Stages:
Ban Halberd because Rosa low ceiling uair ickies. Rosa will generally be killing off the top so I’d pick something with a higher ceiling. But she's light too so we can also capitalize on that if you are feeling more daring. For starters I’d go for FD or BF since SV platforms sometimes will save Luma.

Customs:
Dashing assault - Gets rid of Luma really easily, helps you trap her landing too.
Crescent Slash - Rosalina can dair you out of DS. And I don't find myself using DS OOS against her either since the only reason she should really hit your shield like that is when she's coming up from the ledge or something (otherwise she'd be spacing Luma on your shield). CS makes it so she has to stand farther away from the ledge too.
Iai Counter - The only reason I'd take regular counter over Iai is if you can mess up a recovery easily with it, and Rosa's recovery won't have a hitbox unless they take their custom one which I've never seen anyone do. Iai is just better in general, don't think I need to explain why.

 

[Vipermoon]

Nice write up.

I do want to mention that any front hit of Utilt since it was buffed in KB will put fresh luma in tumble (so you can Utilt > Fsmash if you have the chance). Also that the 10% sour hit of Dash Attack easily sends Luma off-stage, doesn't need to be a tipper.

 

[HFlash]

So I just talked to some people at the Rosa Luma boards. Someone claims that @ Emblem Lord has been advocating that Marth wins the MU. Care to help us out here?

And Foodies did a pretty good sum up of the MU. As far as a number goes, it really depends on how optimally we can remove Luma but, if you can get rid of her with ftilt and utilt, this looks to be at worst an even MU. Otherwise, it comes down to reading the player's defensive habits, and either land a tipper fsmashes, SB, or just simply get them off stage and don't let her get back up.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You should change that to anyone with a brain is advocating Marth wins. At worst its even.

 

[ben1707]

I really feel like Marth has a small to medium advantage against Rosa. He one shots Luma with tippered Fsmash/ Dsmash/ Shield Braker/ Ftilt near the ledge, and then Rosalona can be easily killed with any tippered attacks at medium/high percents. It's all about focusing on Luma while doing some damage to rosa. Don't know about Lucina though.

 

[SherrdreamZ]

Marth has a substantially easier time in this MU then Lucina from my experience. I think his Tipper and slightly having more range greatly assist with being able to space and strike more safely. If your not fighting a competent Rosaluma just outside her range your in for a bad time. It's imperative for both Falchion's to eliminate Luma as often as possible. Edge-guarding is quite important as both Rosa and Martina can net early Gimps/Spikes and failing to do so can mean your demise if she gets you off stage.

The MU encourages focusing on Marth's strengths, Picking your openings to strike, and punishing by dictating spacing with our extended range. After Luma is gone is the time to up the pressure on Rosa and as was stated earlier, bait her into a strong Punish Scenario or read her Defensive Option to build % on her until Luma Returns..

50:50 40:60 One of the few MU's i personally see a large disparity in Marth's innate advantages over Lucina. -1 overall

 

[Gemba Board]

Maybe it's the rosa players I play. But rosa seems about even to me. Once you establish neutral, marth has a ton of options to kill Luma. DA flat out gimps luma if you're close to the ledge. I wouldn't approach rosa until luma and killed with patient spacing.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Marth has a substantially easier time in this MU then Lucina from my experience. I think his Tipper and slightly having more range greatly assist with being able to space and strike more safely. If your not fighting a competent Rosaluma just outside her range your in for a bad time. It's imperative for both Falchion's to eliminate Luma as often as possible. Edge-guarding is quite important as both Rosa and Martina can net early Gimps/Spikes and failing to do so can mean your demise if she gets you off stage.

The MU encourages focusing on Marth's strengths, Picking your openings to strike, and punishing by dictating spacing with our extended range. After Luma is gone is the time to up the pressure on Rosa and as was stated earlier, bait her into a strong Punish Scenario or read her Defensive Option to build % on her until Luma Returns..

50:50 40:60 One of the few MU's i personally see a large disparity in Marth's innate advantages over Lucina. -1 overall

And yet Lucina fares better in the Falcon and Pikachu MU despite Marth's advantages.

 

[Joaco]

This matchup is really good for Marth. I play it a lot against the second best Rosa in my region and I beat him consistently. In the neutral you have to space aerials so that you hit Luma with the tipper (it's not that hard) and try to kill Luma as early as we can. To do this, you have to know Rosa's approach options that are Jab, Nair and dash grab. Counter them mostly with f-air. When Rosa lacks Luma, she is hopeless in our hands. Try to force her offstage and interrupt her recovery. As it lacks a hitbox we can even spike her while she is recovering if we time it well. Just learn the timings for that, she will aim her up-b to the ledge or far away to a platform or the stage. Try guessing right or forcing her one of the two options and kill her, if you can't then hit her so that she has to recover again. Also beware that Rosas like to throw uair before doing the up-b. Never try to challenge her u-air or her d-air, the risk reward option is almost never in our favor.

Don't go Lucina in this matchup ever, Lucina can't kill Luma so she has a very hard time in this matchup.

Strike: Town and City and Dream Land, or Smashville if Dream Land is a counterpick.
Ban: Town and City
Counterpick: Lylat Cruise (best stage for us in this matchup) or Battlefield.

Ratio: +2 / -2

 

[Ark of Silence101]

This matchup is really good for Marth. I play it a lot against the second best Rosa in my region and I beat him consistently. In the neutral you have to space aerials so that you hit Luma with the tipper (it's not that hard) and try to kill Luma as early as we can. To do this, you have to know Rosa's approach options that are Jab, Nair and dash grab. Counter them mostly with f-air. When Rosa lacks Luma, she is hopeless in our hands. Try to force her offstage and interrupt her recovery. As it lacks a hitbox we can even spike her while she is recovering if we time it well. Just learn the timings for that, she will aim her up-b to the ledge or far away to a platform or the stage. Try guessing right or forcing her one of the two options and kill her, if you can't then hit her so that she has to recover again. Also beware that Rosas like to throw uair before doing the up-b. Never try to challenge her u-air or her d-air, the risk reward option is almost never in our favor.

Don't go Lucina in this matchup ever, Lucina can't kill Luma so she has a very hard time in this matchup.
Strike: Town and City and Dream Land, or Smashville if Dream Land is a counterpick.
Ban: Town and City
Counterpick: Lylat Cruise (best stage for us in this matchup) or Battlefield.

Ratio: +2 / -2

Call me horrible but I fare wayyyyy better with Lucina than with Marth in this MU.

 

[Tomoya]

My waifu does pretty well against a Rosaluma. Just perfect spacing and mind games. Don't forget jab to f-smash

 

[Tomoya]

My waifu does pretty well against a Rosaluma. Just perfect spacing and mind games. Don't forget jab to f-smash

 

[Joaco]

Call me horrible but I fare wayyyyy better with Lucina than with Marth in this MU.

You have to work on your tippers man

My waifu does pretty well against a Rosaluma. Just perfect spacing and mind games. Don't forget jab to f-smash

And what do you do if the Rosa also does perfect spacing and mindgames? A Rosalina that knows what is doing shouldn't have any problem in beating Lucina. It's not impossible to win, but it's hard.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

You have to work on your tippers man


And what do you do if the Rosa also does perfect spacing and mindgames? A Rosalina that knows what is doing shouldn't have any problem in beating Lucina. It's not impossible to win, but it's hard.

That's the problem, players who use Rosalina that I play agaisnt know exactly how to avoid Marth's tipper hitbox whereas with Lucina I don't have to worry about that especially in the Falcon and Pikachu MU.

 

[Joaco]

This is about the Rosa MU, not Falcon or Pikachu's. Luma moves slow so you should be able to hit her with the tipper frequently, if not you have to sit down and train the range of your tipper again.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

This is about the Rosa MU, not Falcon or Pikachu's. Luma moves slow so you should be able to hit her with the tipper frequently, if not you have to sit down and train the range of your tipper again.

I prefer Lucina than Marth because she suits my playstyle better overall and please don't take this as an offense as it is not my intention but why some people around here seem to discourage Lucina players by saying that switching to Marth is the only logical thing to follow as sticking with her seems a bad idea in their eyes?

 

[Joaco]

If you main both Lucina and Marth the right thing to do in this matchup is going Marth. I don't care if you like Lucina more, if she suits your playstyle or whatever, that doesn't help winning the matchup and that's why this thread exist and why i'm here for. This is about winning.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I only main Lucina, I used to main Marth but stopped due to him not suiting my play style but yes I agree that Marth is a better character overall.

 

[Joaco]

There are some matchups that are equally as good for Lucina and Marth, but this isn't one of them. But of course you should use your best character, unless the margin is low.

 

[Tomoya]

I don't need a tipper boyz. Just my waifu and my skill are what give me confidence. Not dissing Marth players, hell the more Marth's there are the less people playing my wife

But yeah Marth is really good. Meme a player from Nuevo Laredo is begging me to play him. But I'm keeping my love and confidence in Lucina <3

 

[Vipermoon]

Lucina's dash attack is atrocious. Especially in this MU. You need Marth's dash attack because it ends Luma really easily even non-tipper

 

[GoombaWarrior]

Lucina's dash attack is atrocious. Especially in this MU. You need Marth's dash attack because it ends Luma really easily even non-tipper

WHAT? The dash attack is the same; tumbles luma no matter Marth or Lucina? Dash attack is actually pretty good tbh; ofc not her best move but it has maaany uses

 

[GoombaWarrior]

50:50 No matter Lucina or Marth. Lucina deals with Luma 1% better, Marth deals with Rosa 1% better

 

[GoombaWarrior]

This matchup is really good for Marth. I play it a lot against the second best Rosa in my region and I beat him consistently. In the neutral you have to space aerials so that you hit Luma with the tipper (it's not that hard) and try to kill Luma as early as we can. To do this, you have to know Rosa's approach options that are Jab, Nair and dash grab. Counter them mostly with f-air. When Rosa lacks Luma, she is hopeless in our hands. Try to force her offstage and interrupt her recovery. As it lacks a hitbox we can even spike her while she is recovering if we time it well. Just learn the timings for that, she will aim her up-b to the ledge or far away to a platform or the stage. Try guessing right or forcing her one of the two options and kill her, if you can't then hit her so that she has to recover again. Also beware that Rosas like to throw uair before doing the up-b. Never try to challenge her u-air or her d-air, the risk reward option is almost never in our favor.

Don't go Lucina in this matchup ever, Lucina can't kill Luma so she has a very hard time in this matchup.

Strike: Town and City and Dream Land, or Smashville if Dream Land is a counterpick.
Ban: Town and City
Counterpick: Lylat Cruise (best stage for us in this matchup) or Battlefield.

Ratio: +2 / -2

Is this a serious post or am i missing something? minus 2 lucina? while marth wins by plus 2?