Viridi vs Medusa as a Palutena Echo

[QrowinSP]

Medusa is often listed as an obvious choice for a Palutena Echo fighter, but I think Viridi is a better choice. Let's go into the pros and cons!

MEDUSA:

PROS:

• Uses a staff, like Palutena
• Could theoretically be the same size as Palutena in combat
• Is a villain
• Antagonist of the original Kid Icarus

CONS:

• Is a relatively minor part of the story of Kid Icarus from Uprising onward (Appears for a bout 2 chapter's worth of dialogue)
• Was not very present in the original Kid Icarus, either
• Is a less liked character than Viridi
• One of Sakurai's least characterized characters in Uprising
• Overlaps with Hades, who could very possibly be a boss in Story mode.
• Unlike Palutena, does not have a shield.

VIRIDI:

PROS:

• Beloved character that Sakurai himself seems fond of, based on her presence in Sm4sh
• From the end of Uprising forward is to Dark Pit as Palutena is to Pit
• Fan favorite, heavily characterized character from KIU
• Is known for her comedic chemistry with Pit, Dark Pit, Hades and Palutena, which would be cool in Story mode.
• Is a villain.
• Does not overlap with Hades at all.

CONS:

• Is half Palutena's height
• Fights with a scythe, not a staff.
• Doesn't have a shield.

As you can see, Viridi is, if you can make the gameplay work, a much better Kid Icarus rep, unless you REALLY care that much about Medusa's status as the original antagonist, which I personally think is dwarfed in comparison to Viridi's prominence in KIU. The question is, can we make up for the weird differences between their weapons?

Well, if Medusa can get a shield, then Viridi can, too. That's one down. Then there's the issue of her scythe, but you could really just change some of the damage types on her staff attacks and be down. The remaining issue is whether or not it's okay to have an echo fighter with a different height than the original. And as far as I can tell, the rules on echo fighters are vague enough that that wouldn't surprise me. Hell, you might even be able to give Viridi one or two of the specials Palutena lost from Sm4sh.

Additionally, as Guybrush20x6 pointed out, it is perfectly in line with Kid Icarus lore (written by Sakurai himself) for Viridi to just appear taller and older. Goddesses can choose how they appear to others.

I agree this will be more resource intensive to do than Palutena. But my point is that I don't think it's impossible to do with it still being resource intensive than making a new character. And I just can't see Sakurai wanting Medusa in over Viridi when Viridi is the 4th most important Kid Icarus character in the Kid Icarus universe he wrote and that he seems to be trying to represent in smash. And Sakurai's who makes the decisions.

 

[Deleted member]

It's Medusa or nothing for me.

I know I sound like a fogey because "Back in my day..." nonsense, but just because Medusa was Lady Buzzkillington in Uprising should never downplay the significance she had in the series to begin with. That's one of the reasons why I dislike Uprising in general; the more "cool" the character, the more popular, so therefore Medusa is the least popular character because she's all stuffy and serious. No disrespect to Viridi (though I don't care at all for her), but it makes more sense from an overall logical standpoint to have Medusa go after Pit & Palutena than Viridi... being Viridi.

Also, I don't see why Medusa should have a shield anyway. Yeah, she'd be an Echo, but she'd be a departure because while Palutena is a balanced character with multiple options, Medusa should be a one-dimensional fighter, kind of like Gigas from Tekken 7. It's a character that either can be utilized for aggressive players, or is just a neat novelty that's bad traits demerit the good ones. And I'm an ardent Medusa supporter, so insisting she'd be a terrible fighter may sound... well, counterintuitive, but remember that the two being polar opposites is a character trait in and of itself, considering how Palutena likes to coddle the humans, while Medusa thrilled in making their lives miserable.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Viridi at best would be a semi-clone than an Echo.

Her height difference is too big for her to be the latter.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I also agree that Medusa would make a better echo. She may not be as prominent in uprising as Viridi is but she is still in the game alongside the other two games prior. This means she has the potential of resinating with different demographics. Plus, there's the size argument. I know Chrom pushed the barrier of what a echo is, but he didn't push it that far. Being half the size drastically changes the characters approach and counter balance. This means she'd have to be rebalanced which is counter productive to the concept of echoes. It's still possible, given that we don't know the limits to what Sakurai might consider an echo, but I find it highly unlikely.

Still overall, I'm not sure how I feel about Kid Icarus getting another echo, as much as I like the idea of a playable Medusa.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Neither of them is getting in, but I don’t see how Viridi could even work as a Palutena echo. Besides the obvious height difference, Palutena’s attacks really don’t fit Viridi.

 

[zabimaru1000]

The Reset Bomb Forest returns in Ultimate. If it remains unchanged I don't see this happening.

You can argue Duck Hunt in the stage and DK in 75M can coexists with the characters, but those are retro sprites. I think they can be the only exception. Otherwise Alfonzo would not replace Toon Link in Spirit Tracks.

The Toon Link/Alfonzo can work here too, but iirc the Spirit Bomb Forest was a chapter primarily focused on Viridi. She was the one responsible for sending the bomb.

 

[Curious Villager]

I mean, if Toon Zelda can't work as a Zelda echo due to different height and proportions, I don't see how Viridi could work due to having more or less similar issues. She'd be a semi clone at best if she where to be included from Palutena and rebalanced accordingly. Medusa works much better as she has the same body proportions and height as Palutena.

I'd say It's either Medusa or nothing as far as Palutena echo's go.

 

[QrowinSP]

A lot of people are hung up on the height thing. It's not like there's no precedent for anything like this. It's essentially the difference between Link and Young Link in Melee, but with fewer stat differences. It's therefore perfectly doable from a coding point of view, and it would save on development time like any other echo. So... what's keeping this from being called an echo and being included?

 

[Deleted member]

The Reset Bomb Forest returns in Ultimate. If it remains unchanged I don't see this happening.

You can argue Duck Hunt in the stage and DK in 75M can coexists with the characters, but those are retro sprites. I think they can be the only exception. Otherwise Alfonzo would not replace Toon Link in Spirit Tracks.

The Toon Link/Alfonzo can work here too, but iirc the Spirit Bomb Forest was a chapter primarily focused on Viridi. She was the one responsible for sending the bomb.

And, honestly, who would drop the Reset Bomb if Viridi is playable? The whole point of the Reset Bomb Forest stage was to introduce how much Viridi hates mankind where she'll nuke everything. The idea of two Viridi interacting together is strange. Especially Viridi dropping a bomb on Viridi.

Sure, you look at stuff like Tron Bonne being a background character in MvC 3 if she's not played on one of the stages, but they remove her if she is played. I honestly don't know if in story that Viridi would trust anybody to drop a Reset Bomb.

A lot of people are hung up on the height thing. It's not like there's no precedent for anything like this. It's essentially the difference between Link and Young Link in Melee, but with fewer stat differences. It's therefore perfectly doable from a coding point of view, and it would save on development time like any other echo. So... what's keeping this from being called an echo and being included?

Personal bias aside, I hope you understand that there's a bit more logical processing required to make a clone that's a different size. You can't just "squash and stretch" the hit detection, movement range, attacks, etc.. Making Viridi out of the basis for Palutena would require a lot of coding adjustments and that would require more time to the point where it'd make more sense to just make her an original fighter (apparently, the reason for Ultimate being Ultimate was due to the fact they just took what the Wii U build had and added more content as opposed to making a new engine for the Switch). Sure, Medusa has things radically different than Palutena, but you already have the frame size and attributes at hand. The difference is that Medusa would have to be skewed towards one gameplay discipline because she clearly would not be as balanced a fighter as Palutena.

So, while Viridi may be more "entertaining" to Uprising fans, Medusa would be the more logical choice in this scenario.

 

[SamDunk]

I love Viridi and would maybe prefer her, but logically I think Medusa would probably be better as an Echo since she's been there since the beginning and her model would be roughly the same size and shape, which has been a "rule" for Echo fighters so far. Plus, I think the only way to accurately represent Viridi would be to make her a unique fighter, and I think there's a general consensus that Kid Icarus has enough representation (Dark Pit was already pushing the envelope, and I'm sure there'd be some backlash even if they just made Medusa an Echo).

 

[GoodShepperd]

I felt compelled to post cuz the guy above me has the same picture.

I'll just go ahead and say outright that I really want Medusa in the game. I think she has a better chance as an echo specifically than Viridi because she is just way more physically similar to Palutena model wise, and thematically she makes more sense as an echo since she is basically Palutena's sister in the lore of KI. Also she is the classic villain of the series and the only recurring character besides Pit and Palutena really. In general smash doesn't tend to have characters who've only appeared in one game unless that one one game is a fire emblem. It would be kinda weird for KI to have half of their characters be Echos though, assuming KI gets anymore characters at all. Viridi seems to me more popular, which makes me sad , and she had a mii costume in the Wii U smash so she definitely seems more likely. I'm hoping Medusa's easy echoness will propel her into the game.

 

[QrowinSP]

I honestly don't know if in story that Viridi would trust anybody to drop a Reset Bomb.

So, while Viridi may be more "entertaining" to Uprising fans, Medusa would be the more logical choice in this scenario.

These are the two things I don't really agree with. First is that I don't think Sakurai puts enough value on that level of narrative consistency, otherwise duck hunt do wouldn't show up on the duck hunt stage as a platform when you play as him. It's possible the reset bomb just drops. Nothing of importance is lost. If Viridi is decided as a character, then that takes priority over whether or not she's in a stage, so I think this is a moot point.

And while I agree it would be a more complex echo to make, I also disagree that the ultimate criteria for deciding an echo is how resource un-intensive to make it is. Sure, it needs to be less resource-intensive than making a brand new one, but they are deciding it based on who they want in the game and how they want to represent that character. The fact that they are willing to put effort into them is why these clones also have things like unique idle and running animations or unique final smashes is proof that this is more to them then padding out the roster with the cheapest means possible.

I can easily see a world where neither gets in. But if Sakurai wants to put another kid icarus character in, I can't see him wanting to bring in Medusa over Viridi. He loves the cast of KIU and Sm4sh made it clear he wants to do more with them, even if it's just in another game, and Medusa is total bit part in Uprising. She appears for MAYBE a collective 2 chapters as a speaking role. But Viridi? I can see him wanting to include her in Story mode or something and adding her for that, since she's probably the 4th most important character in that game.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I don't think Sakurai despises Medusa at all. The problem is, a character like Medusa is someone you DON'T make comedy with. You have a character wanting revenge for 25 years, and if she started quipping with the rest of the cast, the mood is gone and the illusion is destroyed. And, again, it made sense for Medusa to be serious. Just because she wasn't "fun" doesn't mean you should automatically disregard her, as what you're obviously doing here. And it's stuff like that that automatically pisses me off.

Hades was essentially the "cool heel" concept from pro wrestling where they are the villain, but act like badasses that you can't hate them directly. The thing is... Hades himself disappears for lengthy periods of time, as well! It's not until after the spider thingy is killed that Hades shows up once again.

 

[QrowinSP]

Honestly, I don't think Sakurai despises Medusa at all. The problem is, a character like Medusa is someone you DON'T make comedy with. You have a character wanting revenge for 25 years, and if she started quipping with the rest of the cast, the mood is gone and the illusion is destroyed. And, again, it made sense for Medusa to be serious. Just because she wasn't "fun" doesn't mean you should automatically disregard her, as what you're obviously doing here. And it's stuff like that that automatically pisses me off.

Hades was essentially the "cool heel" concept from pro wrestling where they are the villain, but act like badasses that you can't hate them directly. The thing is... Hades himself disappears for lengthy periods of time, as well! It's not until after the spider thingy is killed that Hades shows up once again.

I’m disregarding her because she has a major speaking role in 2 of the game’s 25 chapters, and I doubt her role as personalityless, rarely present main villain for the original game is enough to make up for that, especially when hades and viridi are sakurai’s OCs.

 

[lightdasher]

Shield isn't a be all end all problem.

Neither is height for viridi, height didn't stop Pichu back in Melee.

EDIT: Also Viridi's staff isn't exactly a scythe.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

Its gotta be Medusa!

First off she has been the antagonist for the Kid Icarus games since the very beginning, Hades I think would be a stage boss like Dracula on a new Underworld stage and I think Sakurai would want him like that, besides Hades seems like he'd just be a clone of Ganondorf with lasers.

Medusa's role as the angatonist actually gives her a advantage over both Viridi and Hades, because she has played that role and has been a key character to the entire Kid Icarus series since the first game.

Also, like how Dark Pit is a counter to Pit, Medusa would be the counter to Palutena.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I'm in camp Medusa but to play devil's advocate, I could see a taller Viridi working and them lamp-shading it in Palutena's Guidance

Pit: Woah, you're much taller than I remember.
Viridi: Hmph, foolish angel. Gods are divine beings who can take any physical form they so chose.
Pit: Is that right Lady Palutena?
Palutena: *whisper* Check her feet for stilts.
Viridi: I heard that!

 

[Gemini-Gene]

Its gotta be Medusa!

First off she has been the antagonist for the Kid Icarus games since the very beginning, Hades I think would be a stage boss like Dracula on a new Underworld stage and I think Sakurai would want him like that, besides Hades seems like he'd just be a clone of Ganondorf with lasers.

Medusa's role as the angatonist actually gives her a advantage over both Viridi and Hades, because she has played that role and has been a key character to the entire Kid Icarus series since the first game.

Also, like how Dark Pit is a counter to Pit, Medusa would be the counter to Palutena.

With Sakurai creating the term Echo Fighters for clones and semi clones in Ultimate, I feel that Dark Pit should've been introduced as an echo in Ultimate while revealing Medusa as a newcomer for Smash 4. And with team Starfox, the Kongs, and Samus having their bad guys confirmed for Ultimate, imo Medusa would fit perfectly in this speculated "heroes vs villains" theme for the game and possibly it's Classic and Adventure Mode (assuming the blurred mode is a Adventure/Subspace mode).

Also like you've said Medusa is a key part to the entire Kid Icarus series. Medusa could be playable, Hades could be a Boss character in the offline modes like Dracula and that Monster Hunter dragon, and Viridi could reprise her role with the Smash 4 codecs and her 3DS stage based off a KIU chapter. Not to be biased but that seems reasonably fair for KI-KIU representation.

 

[Shoopdawooper]

I never played any Kid Icarus games, so my opinion is probably not as valuable. But I really prefer Medusa's design over Viridi. Especially if we're talking Palutena Echo.

It's just that we already have quite a lot "young, long haired, pretty" female characters. Medusa's design is more "cool" and mature in my opinion.

Plus, I'm all aboard on the villains theme, and you may tell me Viridi is a villain as well (though as I understand it, she's more of a gray character) but you don't need to tell me that when I see Medusa. And that's kind of my point.

Edit: Also,I just thought of Palutena's up air redesigned as Medusa's hair snakes attacking to match the hitbox, and that's just really cool looking.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, two things.

Echo Fighters so far share frame data, weight, speed and such with their counterpart. Surely, Lucina is sliiiiightly smaller than Marth, but this doesn't have an impact. I believe that Daisy will be smaller as well, but again, the size difference is negligible. Viridi would be very different from Palutena in that regard. It's not the same as Melee clones who had different frame data, weight, to compensate Young Link's range for exemple.

Secondly, thematically, Medusa as an echo fit better. They already are two side of the same coin in the games. The goddess of Light VS the goddess of Darkness. Both leader of Angel Land, prior to the games. Now Palutena's Army vs Underworld Army. The connection between the two is stronger.
Surely, Chrom is an echo of Roy, but so far, other echoes are tied to the other characters (obviously, we have Ganondorf in Melee, but it's such an exception).

If the "rival" theme is true for the game, then Medusa is better suited for that echo role.

And as said, Viridi does have an impact on Reset Bomb Forest. It's hard to replace her to drop the Reset Bomb, there is no Alfonzo for her, and she is unique compared to Palkia (well, it's a legendary pokémon, I can admit that it makes it more unique than a Pikachu).

 

[Farbeitfromme]

It's true that Medusa's part in Uprising is small, but her part in the other Kid Icarus games is not, and I personally think those count as well.

To be honest, while I don't hate Viridi, I never liked her much. I guess I'm not that big a fan of her sarcastic nature. That's totally personal preference though, and I know there are people who like that kind of thing, and that's fine.

Addressing the point about Medusa not having personality, I would argue that the tongue-in-cheek personalities of the Uprising crowd isn't always necessary or desirable to make a good villain or character. Ganondorf or Ridley certainly don't have personalities like those in Uprising, but they are certainly deserving characters. Medusa may be a bit out of place in Uprising, but then again, a lot of good characters, including many in Smash, would be as well.

I would disagree that she's a true villain, though, and villains/rivals are what I'm largely interested in this time around. I can't see a picture of Pit and Palutena teaming up against Viridi as having the same impact as the pictures in the DK Rivals trailer. She's just not iconic or physically intimidating enough to pull it off.

So my preference is Medusa. I'd be happy for Viridi's fans if she made it in, but it wouldn't do much for me personally.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Oh, also, for the shield part.

Medusa punching people at full force instead of hitting with a Shield is something that work very well in my opinion.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Well Viridi can use all the powers Palutena can do (plus Reset Bombs of course), but she’s have to be a semi clone or use whatever powers aren’t used by Palutena. If the Reset Bombs still have to be launched on the stage, they can simply have Arlon launch them (or a Viridi clone she decided to make just because). Also she stopped being a close enough villain type character once she helps Pit for the rest of the game (highly possible she has a crush on him), she’s atleast an anti hero

Medusa could be an echo since they can be made to be the same height easily (though Medusa is a giant goddess), but she fights completely different from Palutena (not that it’s too big of a problem to deal with).

Both don’t really have any major problems other than height and a difference in powers that they can’t get pass to be atleast a semi clone or echo

And as said, Viridi does have an impact on Reset Bomb Forest. It's hard to replace her to drop the Reset Bomb, there is no Alfonzo for her

Arlon and maybe Phosphora if she’s not an AT character

It's true that Medusa's part in Uprising is small, but her part in the other Kid Icarus games is not, and I personally think those count as well.

She’s only been in Uprising and the original (nothing for Of Gods and Monsters...the forgotten game)

It's not until after the spider thingy is killed that Hades shows up once again.

You mean the Chaos Kin

 

[QrowinSP]

Its gotta be Medusa!

First off she has been the antagonist for the Kid Icarus games since the very beginning, Hades I think would be a stage boss like Dracula on a new Underworld stage and I think Sakurai would want him like that, besides Hades seems like he'd just be a clone of Ganondorf with lasers.

Medusa's role as the angatonist actually gives her a advantage over both Viridi and Hades, because she has played that role and has been a key character to the entire Kid Icarus series since the first game.

Also, like how Dark Pit is a counter to Pit, Medusa would be the counter to Palutena.

By "since the first game", you mean "just the first game". Because that's it for Medusa. She was a barely-present final boss in the original and then a small part in Uprising. She is not "the antagonist" of the KI series.

I agree whole heartedly on Hades as a stage boss.

If we're being techinical here, Viridi is to Dark Pit as Palutena is to Pit ever since sm4sh, so...

I'm in camp Medusa but to play devil's advocate, I could see a taller Viridi working and them lamp-shading it in Palutena's Guidance

Pit: Woah, you're much taller than I remember.
Viridi: Hmph, foolish angel. Gods are divine beings who can take any physical form they so chose.
Pit: Is that right Lady Palutena?
Palutena: *whisper* Check her feet for stilts.
Viridi: I heard that!

A: I love you
B: This is actually a perfectly reasonable solution that is line with lore written by Sakurai himself.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm in camp Medusa but to play devil's advocate, I could see a taller Viridi working and them lamp-shading it in Palutena's Guidance

Pit: Woah, you're much taller than I remember.
Viridi: Hmph, foolish angel. Gods are divine beings who can take any physical form they so chose.
Pit: Is that right Lady Palutena?
Palutena: *whisper* Check her feet for stilts.
Viridi: I heard that!

It’s already bad enough Palutena told Pit Viridi has a crush on him (“soft spot” is definitely just being coy), now she gonna snitch about her height...damn that woman is cold

 

[DreamZeroX]

Viridi's appearance in the background of Reset Bomb Forest. Medusa is the only character I Truly want in Smash. Please make her a SemiClone. The Goddess must Reign!

 

[QrowinSP]

Viridi's appearance in the background of Reset Bomb Forest. Medusa is the only character I Truly want in Smash. Please make her a SemiClone. The Goddess must Reign!

That's about as much of a deconfirmation as the spirit tracks stage is a deconfirmation of Toon Link.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

That's about as much of a deconfirmation as the spirit tracks stage is a deconfirmation of Toon Link.

I maintain that nobody can replace Viridi for dropping the bomb, and I don't see her dissapearing like Dedede as she affect the stage with the bomb. I believe that's why we haven't seen Tingle's assist trophy (despite being the WW Tingle), as MM Tingle have an effect on Great Bay. On the other hand, I do admit that I'm curious about Great Bay and the Moon AT.

We could also count arwings and Blue Falcon, but Fox and Captain Falcon aren't technically seen in them.

The thing not deconfirming Viridi would be the fact that it's a projection more than anything IMO.

 

[DreamZeroX]

That's about as much of a deconfirmation as the spirit tracks stage is a deconfirmation of Toon Link.

Do you think Medusa could make it in? I honestly thought after seeing that Medusa Statue she was for sure hinted in some sense.

 

[QrowinSP]

Do you think Medusa could make it in? I honestly thought after seeing that Medusa Statue she was for sure hinted in some sense.

I think both are possible. From what I know of Sakurai I just feel like he would want Viridi in more than he'd want Medusa. Medusa's nor relevant with the current story, he's set up for stuff with Viridi and Dark Pit as allies that he might want to use in story mode, she's a character he wrote himself. Plus it helps that she canonically can use all of the special powers Palutena can.

Medusa is hardly impossible, though, and an echo of her is hardly implausible. The medusa statue is kind of reaching, though.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The thing not deconfirming Viridi would be the fact that it's a projection more than anything IMO.

Fits considering that’s the only way Viridi is seen in game outside of her expression portraits

 

[Jovian the Conqueror]

Well, we don't even know for sure yet if there even is going to be a story mode, let alone if Hades is going to be it. I think Viridi could be easily made into a Palutena echo, and I think that is the most likely scenario. But putting in another Sakurai created character in before Medusa just reeks of... Sakurai bias.

 

[Cetus]

I think Viridi since she's more prominent in KIU as opposed to Medusa's minor role. She also appears in the guidance scenes and even has a mii costume.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Well, we don't even know for sure yet if there even is going to be a story mode, let alone if Hades is going to be it. I think Viridi could be easily made into a Palutena echo, and I think that is the most likely scenario. But putting in another Sakurai created character in before Medusa just reeks of... Sakurai bias.

The bias of Sakurai has been around for about a decade (Kirby, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Metroid, I think StarFox), and unless Palutena or someone else brings Medusa to life, she’s not coming to Smash before Viridi (since Uprising made the Kid Icarus the only Nintendo franchise to have Smash be canon to their series, somewhat followed by Bayonetta)

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

By "since the first game", you mean "just the first game". Because that's it for Medusa. She was a barely-present final boss in the original and then a small part in Uprising. She is not "the antagonist" of the KI series.

I agree whole heartedly on Hades as a stage boss.

If we're being techinical here, Viridi is to Dark Pit as Palutena is to Pit ever since sm4sh, so...


A: I love you
B: This is actually a perfectly reasonable solution that is line with lore written by Sakurai himself.

Just like King K Rool in terms of "barely present" in the first game, and look at Ridley, he isnt the "final boss" and hes playable, instead of Mother Brain why? Because he represents the series as a key character just like Medusa does with Kid Icarus.

Well, two things.

Echo Fighters so far share frame data, weight, speed and such with their counterpart. Surely, Lucina is sliiiiightly smaller than Marth, but this doesn't have an impact. I believe that Daisy will be smaller as well, but again, the size difference is negligible. Viridi would be very different from Palutena in that regard. It's not the same as Melee clones who had different frame data, weight, to compensate Young Link's range for exemple.

Secondly, thematically, Medusa as an echo fit better. They already are two side of the same coin in the games. The goddess of Light VS the goddess of Darkness. Both leader of Angel Land, prior to the games. Now Palutena's Army vs Underworld Army. The connection between the two is stronger.
Surely, Chrom is an echo of Roy, but so far, other echoes are tied to the other characters (obviously, we have Ganondorf in Melee, but it's such an exception).

If the "rival" theme is true for the game, then Medusa is better suited for that echo role.

And as said, Viridi does have an impact on Reset Bomb Forest. It's hard to replace her to drop the Reset Bomb, there is no Alfonzo for her, and she is unique compared to Palkia (well, it's a legendary pokémon, I can admit that it makes it more unique than a Pikachu).

Medusa is Palutena's counterpart so she does fit the term rival perfectly.

 

[QrowinSP]

Just like King K Rool in terms of "barely present" in the first game, and look at Ridley, he isnt the "final boss" and hes playable, instead of Mother Brain why? Because he represents the series as a key character just like Medusa does with Kid Icarus.

I'd get the K Rool comparison if Medusa was in more than one game before uprising. But... she wasn't It's literally just the first game and then her minor role in uprising. K Rool and Ridley are both emblematic of their franchises and are recurrent through the series. I feel like a lot of Medusa's support comes from them hearing off hand she's the main antagonist of the first game and then returns in the second, despite how she's really not that big of a deal in comparison to other franchise villains like Bowser or K Rool.

Though thanks for the Mother Brain and Medusa analogy, because that's actually somewhat apt, if not what you intended.

 

[TeamFlareZakk]

I'd get the K Rool comparison if Medusa was in more than one game before uprising. But... she wasn't It's literally just the first game and then her minor role in uprising. K Rool and Ridley are both emblematic of their franchises and are recurrent through the series. I feel like a lot of Medusa's support comes from them hearing off hand she's the main antagonist of the first game and then returns in the second, despite how she's really not that big of a deal in comparison to other franchise villains like Bowser or K Rool.

Though thanks for the Mother Brain and Medusa analogy, because that's actually somewhat apt, if not what you intended.

Medusa was in the promotion trailers to hype up Uprising, the storyline was literally about Medusa's return, sounds like a important antagonist plot to me and yes she is just as big of a deal as Ganon, Bowser, Ridley and K Rool for she is like them the main villain of the Kid Icarus series.

And then there is Viridi, what does she do thats so important? Shes not really a villain if you look at it and the next Kid Icarus character will be a villain rep because thats whats missing.. If Magnus doesnt return, I could see Viridi taking assist trophy duty.

As for Hades.. Who? I often forget hes in Kid Icarus tbh, I keep thinking of him as the bad guy from Hercules.. He sounds like if anything a stage boss like Dracula.

 

[QrowinSP]

Medusa was in the promotion trailers to hype up Uprising, the storyline was literally about Medusa's return, sounds like a important antagonist plot to me and yes she is just as big of a deal as Ganon, Bowser, Ridley and K Rool for she is like them the main villain of the Kid Icarus series.

And then there is Viridi, what does she do thats so important? Shes not really a villain if you look at it and the next Kid Icarus character will be a villain rep because thats whats missing.. If Magnus doesnt return, I could see Viridi taking assist trophy duty.

As for Hades.. Who? I often forget hes in Kid Icarus tbh, I keep thinking of him as the bad guy from Hercules.. He sounds like if anything a stage boss like Dracula.

Have you even PLAYED Kid Icarus Uprising? Hades is the main villain. Viridi was the antagonist of one of the most memorable arcs and is overall the 3rd or 4th most prominent member of the cast, after Pit, Palutena, and maybe Hades. Medusa talks in only 4 of the 25 chapters, in 2 of which she doesn't even have 30 seconds of screentime.

Medusa is nowhere even comparable to Ganon, Bowser, K Rool, or Ridley. Being the final boss of the first game is pretty much the only claim to fame she has.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'd get the K Rool comparison if Medusa was in more than one game before uprising. But... she wasn't It's literally just the first game and then her minor role in uprising. K Rool and Ridley are both emblematic of their franchises and are recurrent through the series. I feel like a lot of Medusa's support comes from them hearing off hand she's the main antagonist of the first game and then returns in the second, despite how she's really not that big of a deal in comparison to other franchise villains like Bowser or K Rool.

Though thanks for the Mother Brain and Medusa analogy, because that's actually somewhat apt, if not what you intended.

Well, Medusa is only in the first part of the game, but her arc is the longest. In comparison, Hades, as fun as he is, doesn't really felt like a threat until the very last chapters. You fight against Viridi, Palutena, the Aurum (teaming up with the Underworld army at that moment) and other things, but you really oppose Hades at the very end only.

It may be a short scene, but Medusa's surprise return to fight Hades is, to me, a sign of her importance to the serie and to the heroes.

Medusa is nowhere even comparable to Ganon, Bowser, K Rool, or Ridley. Being the final boss of the first game is pretty much the only claim to fame she has.

Considering the size of the serie, of course she isn't nowhere these. This didn't stopped Porky from Mother 3 to show up as a boss in Brawl though.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

How about Hades?... nah, actually I prefer him as a boss. As long we get some of his trollness in the game.

As for Medusa vs. Viridi. It comes in a battle of relevance and public appeal. Maybe I would prefer Viridi by a little, because maybe Chrom wants a more "physical" revenge.