Villains in Smash 4

[MasterWarlord]

Salty much?

People made the same arguments for female characters after Brawl came out... all you have to do is replace all "villain" words with "female" words.

Except the big 3 were actually deserving characters, unlike the vast majority of additions to this game or the females requested during Brawl that only brought their chest to the workplace that is Smash Bros.

 

[strawhatninja]

Smash is based on the Pokemon games, where Mewtwo's never had evil actions or motives.

You are right that Mewtwo is not a villian in Pokemon, but is considered in Smash because of event 51 in Melee.

 

[Turokman5896]

I love how all the people satisfied by the roster seem to think we are all assholes for wanting villains. It's smash! I want to play all sides of a fight, and there are plenty of fantastic characters who are villains and heavyweights that could he added. And they are worldwide most requested. **** yeah I'm salty! It feels very frustrating in this regard!

 

[bigbro2233]

All-Star was locked in the leak, there could be more villains that are locked.

 

[strawhatninja]

Smash is based on the Pokemon games, where Mewtwo's never had evil actions or motives.

You are right that Mewtwo is not a villian in Pokemon, but is considered in Smash because of event 51 in Melee.

All-Star was locked in the leak, there could be more villains that are locked.

Yeah I think for me anyway it's 100% guaranteed that this isn't the full roster.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Duck Hunt Dog is Nintendo's most evil villain ever.

 

[MasterWarlord]

More villains are fanmade criteria, there's honestly no such thing as it to be honest, I really don't know how it became a popular theory for speculation here, because to me, only villains who have true general recognizability outside of the Smash community like Bowser Jr. have the merit of being in.

Bowser Jr. is regularly confused for Baby Bowser, and is generally disliked. If you want a character random people on the street recognize and can name, you'd have better luck with Waluigi. People were disgusted by the idea of him in Smash before he was randomly added to this game for no real reason. He has fans, yes, so does Krystal, the haters greatly outnumbered them. Dark Pit especially. . .

And how dare customers make criteria for whether or not they want they to purchase a product! What matters is the creator's vision only, and we should appreciate it and buy all products because he says it is good for us.

 

[bigbro2233]

Smash is based on the Pokemon games, where Mewtwo's never had evil actions or motives.

In the main games, Mewtwo never had any evil thoughts. However, in the first Pokemon movie (Near Melee's release), Mewtwo was the "villain", why he was in Event 51. I don't classify Mewtwo is a villain, especially now.

 

[MasterWarlord]

In the main games, Mewtwo never had any evil thoughts. However, in the first Pokemon movie (Near Melee's release), Mewtwo was the "villain", why he was in Event 51. I don't classify Mewtwo is a villain, especially now.

It's still heavily implied that he was made in the Cinnabar Lab and is the reason it's destroyed in the actual games.

Don't pretend this wouldn't kill people.

 

[johno1995]

It's still heavily implied that he was made in the Cinnabar Lab and is the reason it's destroyed in the actual games.

Don't pretend this wouldn't kill people.

He killed his captors/creators/torturers.

That doesn't make him a villain.

Samus has killed plenty of lifeforms. She must be a villain too.

 

[MasterWarlord]

He killed his captors/creators/torturers.

That doesn't make him a villain.

Samus has killed plenty of lifeforms. She must be a villain too.

There is not direct proof that Team Rocket created him in the games, or that his creators were evil in general. There are vague smaller implications.

 

[DoobieStories]

Hope you're right.
I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that the leaked roster isn't complete?
The leaks for Melee and Brawl around this time before release were complete.
I can't see anything different here. Unless I'm missing something?

ya so look at the locked sign in the top left this is all star mode and its locked it always get unlocked when you unlock every charactar

 

[bigbro2233]

It's still heavily implied that he was made in the Cinnabar Lab and is the reason it's destroyed in the actual games.

Don't pretend this wouldn't kill people.

Oh no, it definitely would. However, if he actually intended to kill scientists is unknown, all we know is that it wanted to escape.

 

[Sahfarry]

I think every major Nintendo series (not Pacman, Megaman or Sonic) deserves a villain. Bowser & Bowser Jr., Ganon, Meta Knight & Dedede, K.Rool/Lord Frederick, Mewtwo, Ridley, Medusa, Wolf and Deathborn.

As cool as Shulk, DHD, Lucas, Choir Boys and IC may be, I feel these characters should take priority over them. Many of these villains are Nintendos biggest and best.

 

[PuffSmash]

Mewtwo will always be known as being a villain just like people will always associate k. Rool as being THE donkey kong villain... (Even though he hasn't been since what 1997?) It's the closest villain pokemon has and the pokemon movie was such a big deal that's just how people will consider him. Although he isn't, tons of people will always see him that way.

Btw I vote Tom Nook as a villain. ******* was always taking my hard-earned bells and offered me nothing for my golden shovel. Pure evil.

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's pretty well established that it's only characters who are pure clones who are seperated (Frowning Pit, Doc and Lucina). That's just the new roster order norm.

This unprecedented, visually strange* change is something you take as fact, yet you are completely unconvinced of an aesthetically horrid roster selection, and a leak-locked all star mode, which has a precedent for needing all the characters to be unlocked for it to be unlocked?

*visually strange, mostly due to aesthetic of the nature of the full roster placement and spaces, which, any way you slice it is ugly, with most notoriety actually being the very out of place Shulk.

 

[Johnknight1]

Salty much?

People made the same arguments for female characters after Brawl came out... all you have to do is replace all "villain" words with "female" words.

The difference is villains have a different playstyle and approach from the rest of the roster. Having or not having female or male anatomy doesn't effect anything in Smash.

Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf in Melee are so drastically different from their style that it's hard not to see, and that's in a large part because they're villains.
Bowser's moves are pretty cheesy yet strong.
Mewtwo has a powerful psychic style that makes him immediately stand out on the roster.
Ganondorf's attacks are STRONG and BRUTAL, and they even look and feel STRONG and BRUTAL.

Then anti-heroes like Meta Knight and Wolf are in a similar vein.
Meta Knight is basically "I won't stop landing moves" the character. He's ferocious with his offense. He attacks and attacks and attacks.
Wolf is like an animal where he essentially hunts down enemies with his attacks. He's very beast-like in that sense.
Wario's sinister style of fighting is similarly visible in his use of disgusting tactics such as pulling out a bike and riding over foes, throwing a bike at foes, biting, and farting, all of which are generally "no no's" in fights.
King Dedede is another anti-hero who has a humorous yet powerful style that makes him unlike any smash character.

Bowser Jr. appears to be the cowardly villain trope by hiding in his clown car to fight, which yes, that's a real thing. He's also the villain mecha trope.
Dark Pit, an anti-hero, will essentially with his style be a Pit with a more angry style of fighting.

(yes, the "angry style of fighting" does impact gameplay)

It's not hard to imagine villains like Ridley, K. Rool, etc. functioning in a similar way that are unique.

Of course if people like you Arc actually played Smash games and contrasted the villain and anti-hero characters from the rest of the roster you'd understand this...

 

[Arcadenik]

Of course if people like you Arc actually played Smash games and contrasted the villain and anti-hero characters from the rest of the roster you'd understand this...

I like how you assume I don't play Smash games.

A character's gender (male or female or neither) has as much influence as a character's morality (being a hero, anti-hero, or a villain) on a character's playstyle and approach.

But of course you wouldn't know that unless you actually play Smash games instead of being salty over the rosters that you won't buy the games. Yeah, two can play that game.

 

[Johnknight1]

I like how you assume I don't play Smash games.

If you did you'd have a real argument.

A character's gender (male or female or neither) has as much influence as a character's morality (being a hero, anti-hero, or a villain) on a character's playstyle and approach.

No it doesn't. Females don't inherently fight differently. That's true in life and true in smash. Peach is a floaty character with projectiles yes, but it's all based on her games. Samus is similar. Meanwhile, Zero Suit Samus and the Wii Fit Trainer are very "in your face", Palutena and Lucina are magic and sword users like *insert other fighting game character here* and Marth, and Sheik is your standard defensive ninja.

Nothing about their sex influences that.

But of course you wouldn't know that unless you actually play Smash games instead of being salty over the rosters that you won't buy the games.

Because I've totally said that before.

The only reason I don't play smash games is because I don't enjoy them, which is why I haven't touched vanilla Brawl in half a decade.

 

[Turokman5896]

I like how you assume I don't play Smash games.

A character's gender (male or female or neither) has as much influence as a character's morality (being a hero, anti-hero, or a villain) on a character's playstyle and approach.

But of course you wouldn't know that unless you actually play Smash games instead of being salty over the rosters that you won't buy the games. Yeah, two can play that game.

Look we get that your very excited over this roster, but your tone was condescending and you have no counter agrguement to the fact that this game features a tiny selection of actual villains.

 

[Johnknight1]

IMO Sakurai has been having too much fun just trying to shock people with his character reveals, that he neglected to cater to a huge portion of fans (as shown by the polls) who are attracted to villain characters.

This.

Who cares about "shocking reveals" in the long run=???

It's about getting good and interesting characters, and if a "shocking reveal" fails at that, then they were a WASTE OF TIME!!!

People who want just shocking reveals and only concern themselves with that are honestly just "fans" who don't even play the games, thus they aren't even Smash fans.

I don't see why anyone would care what these kin of people think. These kind of people don't have any passion for smash.

 

[MasterWarlord]

I like how you assume I don't play Smash games.

A character's gender (male or female or neither) has as much influence as a character's morality (being a hero, anti-hero, or a villain) on a character's playstyle and approach.

But of course you wouldn't know that unless you actually play Smash games instead of being salty over the rosters that you won't buy the games. Yeah, two can play that game.

Nintendo has a very flat collection of characters. This means that the protagonists are usually very bland with few actions they can do, oftentimes even incapable of speech. The villians, meanwhile, have a much larger arsenal of attacks because they need to be challenging boss fights, as well as far more personality in most cases. While you can't fit a huge arsenal of attacks into something like a platformer, in a fighting game these characters are vastly preferable to generic protagonist player avatars.

Heavyweight status is also usually reserved for villians and bosses, because they're allowed to take up large portions of the screen. If you were playing as a heavyweight in a platformer, it'd be difficult to see all the action going around you. The villians also typically tend to be the ones that are ugly, because you don't want to put an ugly protagonist's face on the box. The heavyweight is a trope heavily associated with villians, especially in simplistic childrens' media like most of the Smash Bros franchises.

 

[Johnknight1]

Hope you're right.
I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that the leaked roster isn't complete?
The leaks for Melee and Brawl around this time before release were complete.
I can't see anything different here. Unless I'm missing something?

All-Star mode is still locked for the player who leaked this.

You can only play All-Star mode in Melee and Brawl when every character is unlocked.

On top of that, various legitimate leakers keep saying there's a lot more of the roster that hasn't been revealed.

 

[Arcadenik]

Look we get that your very excited over this roster, but your tone was condescending and you have no counter agrguement to the fact that this game features a tiny selection of actual villains.

Oh I have one. Duck Hunt Dog apparently got in over Ridley. Why is that?

Could it be because we already have "angry" heavyweight characters who fight with their claws and they have brute strength. They are very vicious fighters who breathe fire. What makes Ridley stand out from Bowser and Charizard? What makes him so unique?

 

[Turokman5896]

Oh I have one. Duck Hunt Dog apparently got in over Ridley. Why is that?

Could it be because we already have "angry" heavyweight characters who fight with their claws and they have brute strength. They are very vicious fighters who breathe fire. What makes Ridley stand out from Bowser and Charizard? What makes him so unique?

How is that a counter argument at all? It just shows how ignorant you are of characters like Ridley/ k Rools potential! If anything this further solidifies the fact that your judgement is significantly clouded comparing dhd, a one time character, to a series mainstay and main villain.

 

[MasterWarlord]

Oh I have one. Duck Hunt Dog apparently got in over Ridley. Why is that?

Because Sakurai has an irrational hatred of Ridley? Being picked does not make things the correct choice, contrary to popular belief of this fanbase.

Could it be because we already have "angry" heavyweight characters who fight with their claws and they have brute strength. They are very vicious fighters who breathe fire. What makes Ridley stand out from Bowser and Charizard? What makes him so unique?

Size and using the air. Heavyweights are very much so a thing, when all of the newcomers have been such wimpy small fries so far.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Smash is based on the Pokemon games, where Mewtwo's never had evil actions or motives.

Smash is not just based on the games, Smash is also based on the anime.
Particularly the first game, in which Pikachu's thunder attack was taken from the very first episode with the Spearow, the Goldeen reference as a Pokeball (versus the game reference of Magikarp), inclusion at all of Jigglypuff.

Not to mention, Sakurai's criteria for INCLUDING Pokemon have been stated to reflect the MOVIES/anime, as a primary means.

Let us also not forget Mewtwo's voice in Melee.

 

[Sun & Moon]

Honestly, to this day, I don´t understand why this game "needs" more villans. Being a bad guy, by itself, adds nothing to the roster.
Also, the reason why they play differently from the rest of the cast is because they already showed different abilities in their home series.
King K. Rool and Ridley deserved to be in, but not because they're antagonistes, they have a lot more going on for them, like fan requests and moveset potencial (at least for Rool...not sure about Ridley).

 

[Snagrio]

The villain thing had another thing going on for it. You know the hype three? Ridley, K. Rool, and Mewtwo? Oh yeah, they are all antagonists! (Melee treated Mewtwo as a baddie, thereby villain). So the problem isn't so much the lack of antagonists per se (though it is a legitimate complaint), but rather that some of the most wanted characters this time around all share that trait and, as far as we know, none of them are in.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The difference is villains have a different playstyle and approach from the rest of the roster. Having or not having female or male anatomy doesn't effect anything in Smash.

Bowser, Mewtwo, and Ganondorf in Melee are so drastically different from their style that it's hard not to see, and that's in a large part because they're villains.
Bowser's moves are pretty cheesy yet strong.
Mewtwo has a powerful psychic style that makes him immediately stand out on the roster.
Ganondorf's attacks are STRONG and BRUTAL, and they even look and feel STRONG and BRUTAL.

Then anti-heroes like Meta Knight and Wolf are in a similar vein.
Meta Knight is basically "I won't stop landing moves" the character. He's ferocious with his offense. He attacks and attacks and attacks.
Wolf is like an animal where he essentially hunts down enemies with his attacks. He's very beast-like in that sense.
Wario's sinister style of fighting is similarly visible in his use of disgusting tactics such as pulling out a bike and riding over foes, throwing a bike at foes, biting, and farting, all of which are generally "no no's" in fights.
King Dedede is another anti-hero who has a humorous yet powerful style that makes him unlike any smash character.

Bowser Jr. appears to be the cowardly villain trope by hiding in his clown car to fight, which yes, that's a real thing. He's also the villain mecha trope.
Dark Pit, an anti-hero, will essentially with his style be a Pit with a more angry style of fighting.

(yes, the "angry style of fighting" does impact gameplay)

It's not hard to imagine villains like Ridley, K. Rool, etc. functioning in a similar way that are unique.

Of course if people like you Arc actually played Smash games and contrasted the villain and anti-hero characters from the rest of the roster you'd understand this...

I appreciate the claim you are trying to make, but it does not really make much sense.
The approach these characters use is determined by their personality, attributes, and skill set, just like the female characters you described in the post to @ Arcadenik

Case and point- if Bowser Junior is 'a coward' because he is a villain, meanwhile, Bowser himself is direct and aggressive, because he is a villain.

Ultimately, you are just describing character's being influenced by their stories- which affect, as I said, their personalities, physical attributes, and skill sets. To a greater degree, this does in fact then come into play style than being female, and on this point, I agree- but it is not a 'specific type of characteristic' which you seem to be clarifying it as. A character is influenced by who they are, absolutely, and as your own examples show, this can be as variant from villain to villain as it can villain to hero to antihero to polymorphic goo.

 

[Turokman5896]

I appreciate the claim you are trying to make, but it does not really make much sense.
The approach these characters use is determined by their personality, attributes, and skill set, just like the female characters you described in the post to @ Arcadenik

Case and point- if Bowser Junior is 'a coward' because he is a villain, meanwhile, Bowser himself is direct and aggressive, because he is a villain.

Ultimately, you are just describing character's being influenced by their stories- which affect, as I said, their personalities, physical attributes, and skill sets. To a greater degree, this does in fact then come into play style than being female, and on this point, I agree- but it is not a 'specific type of characteristic' which you seem to be clarifying it as. A character is influenced by who they are, absolutely, and as your own examples show, this can be as variant from villain to villain as it can villain to hero to antihero to polymorphic goo.

I think he meant to focus on the idea that villains personalities are often more outrageous and unique, lending that personality to a moveset is then easy.

 

[Morbi]

As an advocate of antagonists, Dark Pit is enough for me to be honest. Albeit, in the event that Wolf is gone, I am not sure I feel that way any longer.

 

[Arcadenik]

It doesn't matter if a character is good or evil, male or female, vicious or hilarious, bipedal or quadruped, etc.... what matters is how these attributes come together to build a character's playstyle and approach with the moveset that they may receive from Sakurai. I'm not interested in continuing this debate. I'm sorry if Ridley or K. Rool might not be in SSB4... yeah, they would have been pretty interesting and unique... but right now, I'm just gonna enjoy the newcomers confirmed so far.

 

[Morbi]

It doesn't matter if a character is good or evil, male or female, vicious or hilarious, bipedal or quadruped, etc.... what matters is how these attributes come together to build a character's playstyle and approach with the moveset that they may receive from Sakurai. I'm not interested in continuing this debate. I'm sorry if Ridley or K. Rool might not be in SSB4... yeah, they would have been pretty interesting and unique... but right now, I'm just gonna enjoy the newcomers confirmed so far.

It is relevant to many, myself included. The notion is subjective, after all. I do agree that game-play should come first, but sometimes people want their favorite characters, who in this case, are villains... in the game (how dare they, entitled children, I say!)

 

[Turokman5896]

It is relevant to many, myself included. The notion is subjective, after all. I do agree that game-play should come first, but sometimes people want their favorite characters, who in this case, are villains... in the game (how dare they, entitled children, I say!)

Forgive me for being a horrible person for wanting my favorite character morbid, I beg of you!

 

[Cpt. Cucumber]

I agree, the roster could really need some more bad guys.
It is very appealing to me to be able to control the bosses (and their sidekicks), wich on most other occasions you are fighting against as the protaganist in their respective games. Controlling Bowser(outside of a go kart) and Ganondorf for the first time in melee was a fun and novel experience.

Also, I know I'm not the only one who loves doing fantasy matchups now and again. More villains greatly adds to the variety in this regard.

Mario and Donkey Kong fighting King Bowser and King K.Rool?

Fox McCloud and Samus Aran against Wolf O`Donnell and Ridley?

Sound awesome.

Let us hope that some of the remaining characters turn out to be some iconic baddies.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Also, I know I'm not the only one who loves doing fantasy matchups now and again. More villains greatly adds to the variety in this regard.

Mario and Donkey Kong fighting King Bowser and King K.Rool?

Fox McCloud and Samus Aran against Wolf O`Donnell and Ridley?

Sound awesome.

Let us hope that some of the remaining characters turn out to be some iconic baddies.

How about Ganondorf vs. Bowser vs. Ridley vs. Mewtwo?

Yeah, my favorites are all out brawls between similar characters. I can't wait for my princess fight (), the swordsman fight (Shulk), etc.

And the all out 'Who's the most evil character?' is my favorite. It's not the same with DDD, MK, or Wario, since they're more anti-heroes or anti-villains anyway.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Im just upset that sakurai could not work that sakurai bais on hades.

 

[MagnesD3]

Sakurai has his own motives and cares very little about what we think.

 

[0ShadowStories]

well due All Star Mode being locked its possible we still have 5 slots. They probably aren't the 5 the leaker said, but im sure Ridley and Mewtwo are in there. Maybe if we are lucky K Rool too