Villager Stage Discussion Thread

[Cenizas]

As we all know, stages are a very integral facet of Smash that can make or brake a character and MU's. With this thread my goal is to help all Villger players to optimize and excel in their gameplay. Remember, this is going be about Villager, the character, not you, the player. Please voice your opinions on stage legality and the format of stage picking elsewhere. With all that said and done let us begin. I'll post in the OP data on each stage, thoughts about each one, and notable ideas and strategies.

 

[Cenizas]

First, I feel we should begin with Battlefield, FD, then Smashville. After that, we expand onto more stages according to general consensus. Please try to prioritize stages on the Wii U version though as it seems to be the more competitively used version as of now. Thank you.

 

[Mtn64]

Will come back to this later.

 

[Volya]

I personally ban DF as soon as i can in tournament when CP are not involved : Plateform are very important for Villager (for the tree, the fsmash..) and you don't need a flat stage to stall with him.
The ultimate stage for Villager is Lylat imo

.. And the worst is probably any CP with changing plateform (Delfino, castle siege, skyloft)

 

[Cenizas]

I agree with you on Castle Siege and Skyloft, but I feel Delfino can be rather favorable to us. Now if I may, I'm assuming you prefer not play on transforming stages because of the often occurrence of walk-offs, which absolutely sucks for Villager because of his atrocious grab game. However, Delfino may be great for us because of the presence of water and lack of grabbable ledges. I'm not too familiar with water and swimming mechanics, but this seems like a great stage for using the tree as a barrier and can act more reliably as a killing tool. Of course, if someone has data on water and how it affects the characters in it and otherwise, I'd always like to know.

 

[zeezee]

You definitely wanna ban FD first above all unless you know for certain that the other player is using a tall character that isn't incredibly fast like Captain Falcon. The risk is usually still not worth it though, someone picks Sonic, Cap'n, Little Mac, or Shulk (speed form) on you here and its usually game over. Platforms help alleviate these match-ups because you won't have to be on a single plane in the ground for so long so its easier to deal with their ground speed when they are forced to jump at times in order to reach you on the platforms. It wouldn't be so bad if Fairs and Bairs came out lower after instantly doing them out of a short hop or if they didn't lag so much when you do them so close to the ground that they have landing lag. This is also why the platforms of battlefield are preferred over flat FD because you can hit people on platforms with fairs and bairs without any risk of being punished. You can even hit short characters easier in platforms which are usually problematic for villager to hit with his slingshots. You can do stuff like run off the side of the platform and instantly back air, which leaves you with zero landing lag if your timing is good, and it will reach anyone of any size. You will also get grabbed a lot by faster characters in flat stages, especially out of lloid since its start-up is so long, but they can't really reach you in time if they are stuck on a platform first no? There's just so much stuff villager can do with platforms, its crazy. One of the more awesome things you can do, is simply drop bowling balls out of the platforms. This is great especially against players that are not too familiar with the match-up, because most people don't see it coming as its not a common thing in smash games to just get hit with some kind of projectile from above from someone STANDING on a platform. You can do some really crazy **** in smashville with it too since the platform moves, I can't tell you how many matches I've won using the platform while its off stage to deliver a surprise bowling ball from that crazy distance. The first stage I usually ban from these three (which are like ALWAYS starters) is definitely FD, and then I would ban Smashville second. Smashville is good, but its a little too similar to FD in that it lacks platforms so fast characters can still give you a lot of trouble and force you to the ledge. Out of the three, Battlefield is definitely the stage of choice simply for the sheer amount of platforms that it has.

 

[Volya]

Yeah i totally agree with you Zee. But what do you think of Lylat ? It's even better than Battlefield ! Villager can easily perform a recorvery while other opponent will often be in trouble.

 

[zeezee]

Yeah i totally agree with you Zee. But what do you think of Lylat ? It's even better than Battlefield ! Villager can easily perform a recorvery while other opponent will often be in trouble.

I didn't mention it cause the OP wanted us to just start with those first three stages, but it definitely has the potential to be villagers best tournament worthy stage. The fact that the layout of the platforms on the stage were like literally made for villager to drop his bowling balls out off is really good. I honestly don't think there's a better platform layout for villager to work with right now other than lylat...that said, it isn't perfect. The stage tilts, meaning that many times it will be at an odd sort of 45 or 135 degree angle, which is usually bad for villager on stage because if you're ever at the highest point of the tilt, it will make landing lloid rockets or slingshots impossible on anyone on the ground because they are simply to low below you. I also don't really know if people struggling to recover there because of the tilting/thin ledges is a valid reasoning for it being a good villager stage, because that feels more like its the players fault for not learning how or being able to properly recover there despite how difficult it may be imo. What I'm trying to say is, just because its difficult to do sometimes doesn't mean that some player out there can't successfully recover 10 out of 10 times on that stage. That's just how I feel anyways... I like playing in battlefield more because I'm always at an advantage there lol.

 

[Cenizas]

It's so damn hard trying to find good villager videos anywhere on less commonplace stages. What a crying shame.

 

[zeezee]

It's so damn hard trying to find good villager videos anywhere on less commonplace stages. What a crying shame.

I think there's a good reason for that though.
People always ban Battlefield and Lylat vs villager, realistically only leaving villager with like TnC/Smashville/FD/Omega, cause I don't think Villager ever really has a reason to pick any of the other usual ones. Kong and Halberd both have a hole in the middle of the stage which people can hide under making it hard to hit them with rockets and slingshots, halberd being worse because of its really low roof (Villager is one of the floatiest characters in the game so he will die very quickly there and a lot of the best characters have really good reliable means of killing upwards) Duck Hunt stage and Castle Siege both have stage things that block your projectiles, with Duck Hunts being pretty random (though I think it alerts you when the ducks are coming, still I'm pretty sure they go in random directions) and castle siege's being titanic with a lot of endurance. Castle Siege might just be villagers worse stage honestly, mostly because of that second transformation. The huge statues blocking your path, the platforms being of very little help given their awkward placement being on top of each other and near the statues, and the walk-off (villager isn't good in walk-offs because his grab is very bad, and in walk-offs you can quickly gimp people by standing near the blast zones and back throwing them...he also loses the need to use some of the areas he excels at the most; recovering with his godlike recovery, his great ledge game, his great offstage game, etc) kinda suck. The other two transformations are still worse than TnC/Smashville/FD/Omega because both transformations have unevenly shaped grounds on their bases allowing people to duck under your projectiles. The third transformation being worse because it is an FD that tilts making it even more harder to hit people lmao. This first one could have actually been a decent stage for Villy by itself because of its awesomely placed platforms, but its floor is still uncomfortably uneven lol. I have no clue about Delfino though, could be decent...lacks platforms at times and has a lot of walk-off moments...but I think the water can benefit villager cause its so easy to drop bowling balls on people that are swimming...I dunno.

I consider myself to be pretty pessimistic about villagers stage choices in this game though, so again its just my opinion...I wish we had melee's stage-list, that would certainly move villager up a tier or two hehehehe.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

My opinions. Reasons for most of them below.

S: Lylat Cruise, Battlefield
A: Delfino Plaza, Smashville, Town and City
B: Duck Hunt, Final Destination
C: Halberd, Castle Siege, Kongo Jungle

I have a lot of similar views with Zee, with regards to the stages, especially regarding platforms usage and the dips in Halberd and Kongo Jungle. However, I think Kongo Jungle is worse than Halberd, and, possibly Villager's Worst stages.

Yeah, there are platforms on KJ64, but you don't get very much use out of them. They're too high to poke at with your slingshot, using them for retreats is impractical, and they're not spectacular for bowling balls. At least not in the standard way. Other than the obvious trick (similar to Smashville's moving platform), the two side platforms aren't bad for dropping bowling balls against recovering opponents. Reason being, the platforms extend just a bit further than the stage, leaving them less time to grab ledge invincibility.

Castle Siege is bad is horrible for Villager. The only good points I can think of are the alright platform setup on the first phase. And maybe the statues keeping back projectiles from some characters that might outcamp you...? <_< Oh, and statues are easy to kill if the opponent isn't close by. Tree and whatnot. I'm not sure how many rounds it takes, but the tree growing + timer overlapping a tree does a ton of damage. I think the axe chopping the tree might be able to hit the statue as well, but I'm not sure. Doesn't fix the other problems of the stage, but it's something.

Delfino isn't bad at all, but you have to be willing to time the opponent out. It's a haven for a campy Villager, probably more than any other stage. The beach has a drop on the outer sides, which is beautiful for camping. Having the low ground is good for Villager, while having the high ground takes away from your slingshot's usefulness. The house creates a barrier that your opponent has to cross if they want to approach you, forcing them to cross over it and your slingshot/rocket. Umbrella Phase is good because of the drop on the left side, while losing control of it is okay because the drop isn't a dip (meaning the stage doesn't slide into the lower area), meaning the opponent has to jump to approach you, rather than run straight in your direction. The other phase with the shallow water (the one with the red awning on the left side) isn't as good as the Umbrella Phase, but it's not horrible. The right side is dangerous, and you won't have much room to work with, but the middle is better than the previous variant's drop. Shine Gate isn't that good for Villager. Probably my least favorite phase on Delfino. Pillar Phase is really good, because you're able to force the opponent to jump from pillar to pillar, chasing you around through slingshots and rockets.


Town and City is fine. It's not as bad as FD, but not as good as Smashville.

I feel like Duck Hunt's close blast zones cause you to die sooner than other stages. Reason being, there are a lot of distances where Villager would normally be able to recover (really, any distance), but since the stage cuts off at those points, you don't get those opportunities. Dog causes for some cool bowling ball tricks if you pay attention and know how to tell exactly where the dog will pop up. Ducks don't really cause many problem for slingshots or rockets. They mostly stay in the air out of your way, than anything.

Lylat and Battlefield are both Villager's best stage. Choose which one suits you best. If you want to be able to take advantage of Lylat's better platform setup and advantageous position when having the low ground, go for it. If you don't want to have to pay attention to which side the high ground is so that your slingshot/rocket game doesn't go on the decline, go with battlefield. My advice would be to get good at both so that you can choose the one that your opponent is worse on.

 

[captain clutch]

Most of what I had to say has already been said! However, I disagree with KJ64 being one of Villy's worst stages. I know I'm in the minority here, but I feel like it's one of his better ones. The bowling ball and the dash pot are great tools to use on the platforms. The indent in the middle doesn't effect things too much. Because if they try to spend the majority if the match ducking rockets there, you can move up to the moving platforms.
I agree Siege and Halberd are his worst and BF and LC are his two best stages, then followed by TnC/SV, KJ64 and DH. I like using the hidden grass in DH to pull some fun shenanigans like planting trees, using any smash attack. Also I'm getting better at strategically using the dog platform.
I'm not a big fan of Delfino with Villager, I rank it close to skyloft. So many walkoffs, and opponents generally aren't going to be in the water.

 

[-Se7en-]

How is Skyloft bad for Villager?
Different parts of Skyloft have different advantages for Villager.

I will come back to share my thoughts on Skyloft, I'm in class so I can't share all of my thoughts?

In general though what is so bad about it?

 

[zeezee]

How is Skyloft bad for Villager?
Different parts of Skyloft have different advantages for Villager.

I will come back to share my thoughts on Skyloft, I'm in class so I can't share all of my thoughts?

In general though what is so bad about it?

I have barely ever played Skyloft because its always banned but isn't it like walk-off city?
Villager HATES walk-offs because he can't use his grab to gimp anyone of the walk-offs with back throw because its so bad that he will immediately be dead if he misses, he can't make use of his amazing edguarding potential when there is nothing to edgeguard and he can't make use of his amazing recovery because again there is nothing to recover to. Villager is just amazing on edges in general because they make his unsafe aerials harder to punish, they make landing slingshots on standing opponents easier, the ledge stall lloid rockets, and the bowling balls.

 

[-Se7en-]

I have barely ever played Skyloft because its always banned but isn't it like walk-off city?
Villager HATES walk-offs because he can't use his grab to gimp anyone of the walk-offs with back throw because its so bad that he will immediately be dead if he misses, he can't make use of his amazing edguarding potential when there is nothing to edgeguard and he can't make use of his amazing recovery because again there is nothing to recover to. Villager is just amazing on edges in general because they make his unsafe aerials harder to punish, they make landing slingshots on standing opponents easier, the ledge stall lloid rockets, and the bowling balls.

What about the transition that goes under one little island? Tons of traps can be made.

 

[captain clutch]

I believe Delfino has just as many, if not more walk-offs than Skyloft.

 

[-Se7en-]

I believe Delfino has just as many, if not more walk-offs than Skyloft.

I did play on Skykoft and I can understand why it's not so good for Villager now, but I know my two bans are supposed to be on FD and Halberd.

What advantages does Villager have on Skykoft? (I am preparing for a tournament in two days so I'll be questioning stages).

 

[CodyOdyO]

Am I the only one who HATES Lylat as a stage for Villager? There's only one reason for my animosity.

- No walls

Villager's wall jump is absolutely amazing. He's floaty enough to where it grants him a ton of hang time, and it can make your ledge game astounding when used properly. Wall jump Lloid's, slingshots, and added air time for gimps can really effect your off stage game, and it makes stages such as FD better when going against fast characters since you're creating a reliable platform in a sense by adding the second dimension that is the ledge. It's no longer such a flat stage in that sense.

Basically I'd rather ban Lylat before FD any day. If I could wall jump there it would be a great stage.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Stickied yo B)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

What about the transition that goes under one little island? Tons of traps can be made.

Gimmicks on one phase of a stage is not enough to change much, with regards to whether or not it's a good stage for Villager. There are some gimmicks with the platforms on Kongo Jungle that can be taken advantage of on hard reads, but the stage is still just as bad for Villager.

I believe Delfino has just as many, if not more walk-offs than Skyloft.

The thing about Skyloft is that the stage changes much more often. So while there may be a number of phases on Delfino where you're on a walk off, when you're on a phase without a walk off, you'll be on that phase for a good bit longer. And on Skyloft, when you're transitioning from the moving stage to something else, your opponent has a lot of opportunities to allow the stage to save them.

I did play on Skykoft and I can understand why it's not so good for Villager now, but I know my two bans are supposed to be on FD and Halberd.

What advantages does Villager have on Skykoft? (I am preparing for a tournament in two days so I'll be questioning stages).

Your two bans aren't "suppose" to be anywhere. FD isn't great for Villager, but it's not the utter worst, in my opinion. And there are going to be matchups where you might want to keep Halberd legal, either to ban something else or because the opponent doesn't have many viable vertical kill options or is floaty. But generally, yes. Halberd should probably be your first ban. Kongo Jungle as well if its legal, in my opinion. Castle Siege I would ban over FD, if you think someone is going to pick it. But if you take into consideration what most players are use to (Omegas), banning FD is definitely a safe bet.

I didn't put Skyloft on my list of stages, but if I did, it would be worse than Duck Hunt but better than FD.

 

[-Se7en-]

Gimmicks on one phase of a stage is not enough to change much, with regards to whether or not it's a good stage for Villager. There are some gimmicks with the platforms on Kongo Jungle that can be taken advantage of on hard reads, but the stage is still just as bad for Villager.
The thing about Skyloft is that the stage changes much more often. So while there may be a number of phases on Delfino where you're on a walk off, when you're on a phase without a walk off, you'll be on that phase for a good bit longer. And on Skyloft, when you're transitioning from the moving stage to something else, your opponent has a lot of opportunities to allow the stage to save them.
Your two bans aren't "suppose" to be anywhere. FD isn't great for Villager, but it's not the utter worst, in my opinion. And there are going to be matchups where you might want to keep Halberd legal, either to ban something else or because the opponent doesn't have many viable vertical kill options or is floaty. But generally, yes. Halberd should probably be your first ban. Kongo Jungle as well if its legal, in my opinion. Castle Siege I would ban over FD, if you think someone is going to pick it. But if you take into consideration what most players are use to (Omegas), banning FD is definitely a safe bet.

I didn't put Skyloft on my list of stages, but if I did, it would be worse than Duck Hunt but better than FD.

I'll share the tournament's stage list to get some insight.

Neutrals :
1) Battlefield
2) Final Destination/Omega Mode
3) Town and City
4) Smashville

Counterpicks :
1) Duck Hunt
2) Lylat Cruise
3) Delfino Plaza
4) Halberd
5) Castle Siege
6) Kongo Jungle 64

(If you want striking info it goes 1-1-1 for first match, winner gets two stage bans).

 

[Sonsa]

I always go Battlefield, but have been paranoid about Lylat due to it's awkward ledges...but I'm sure Villager could have an easy time, turniping through those ledges, recovering a lot easier than other characters, and dropping bowling balls from the higher platforms. I should really play there more!

Omega stages with walls can be helpful at times against characters like Sonic, taking away their option to slide up the ledge avoiding bowling balls or turnips.

Duck Hunt also has these walls and the bush and tree you could drop trees and bowling balls from, but this stage doesn't really let you take advantage of Villager's recovery.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Counterpicked Kongo Jungle multiple times at my last tournament, and actually liked it. It works in certain matchups:

1) Opponent's primary method is killing off the top
2) Matchup you'll want to keep the middle ground in, rather than hanging out on the ledge
3) Against an opponent that makes a habit of using a really low crouch to get around slingshot, rather than shielding
4) Opponents that make good use of low or medium height platforms for pressure/juggles, and don't do as well with high platforms.

I counterpicked it against a Greninja and a Ness, and won both games much easier than I expected to. Being able to control the middle ground against Ness allowed me to keep him on the edges, where I could more easily force him off stage. It also made his short hop approaches more more difficult on him. The platforms aren't great for bowling balls naturally, but that's fine. However, the way that the side platforms extend past the ledges allows you to drop a bowling ball in an area that the opponent can't sweet spot the ledge in.

I just had to change my playstyle up, and focus on controlling the middle ground and focusing almost entirely on gimps for kills.

 

[1337Kai]

In my opinion, Battlefield is Villager's BEST stage. He can take so much advantage of the platform there. Smashville is also a solid stage. The moving platform makes it good for bowling balls and trees. Final Destination is ok, not amazing, but ok. Avoid Castle Siege like the plague. In fact, if you're a zoner, avoid it. Villager doesn't do well in changing stages like this one, especially on the 2nd segment where the statues can get in the way of your rockets. I use the rockets for a pressure game and these statues can really ruin my spacing game too. My playstyle with him is good spacing and a lot of projectile pressure.

 

[AnchorTea]

It's odd that this thread started so well and hasn't been touched for a long time.

Anyway, Pilot Wings has been starting to get popular, so it has been becoming legal for many tourney's currently. I think we should discuss that.

I say that it's bad for Villager. It has platforms below itself in the first form, and the second form tilts like crazy.

 

[MintChipper]

It's odd that this thread started so well and hasn't been touched for a long time.

Anyway, Pilot Wings has been starting to get popular, so it has been becoming legal for many tourney's currently. I think we should discuss that.

I say that it's bad for Villager. It has platforms below itself in the first form, and the second form tilts like crazy.

How on earth does one lloyd zone when those huge plane wings are in the way?! Lylat is a better Pilotwings imo, also, is it just me or is Smashville great for Villager? Completely flat + platform + homefield advantage is amazing.

 

[AnchorTea]

How on earth does one lloyd zone when those huge plane wings are in the way?! Lylat is a better Pilotwings imo, also, is it just me or is Smashville great for Villager? Completely flat + platform + homefield advantage is amazing.

Smashville is OK for Villager. The reason why I say that is because Villager benefits more from stages with more platforms. A completely flat stage hinders Villager like crazy. Smashville has one platform. It would be good for Villager if said flatform wasn't moving all the time.

 

[Sonsa]

Smashville is OK for Villager. The reason why I say that is because Villager benefits more from stages with more platforms. A completely flat stage hinders Villager like crazy. Smashville has one platform. It would be good for Villager if said flatform wasn't moving all the time.

Nahhh, it doesn't hinder Villager crazily. But in some matchups, platforms can help with combos, kills, and helpful tricks! But in others, it's must more advantages not to have anywhere for your opponent to run away too.

Sheik for example, you wanna take to FD, so she can't attack from above as often, run, or sweet spot up smash like on Battlefield.

But yeah, Smashville is alright. The moving platform can help with bowling ball drops, and timbers, though a little predictable.

 

[AnchorTea]

Sheik for example, you wanna take to FD, so she can't attack from above as often, run, or sweet spot up smash like on Battlefield.

That's not a very good idea since Needle Camping exist.

 

[Sonsa]

That's not a very good idea since Needle Camping exist.

Yeah, exactly, but on FD, you can use Gyroids and tree to shield yourself, whereas with Battlefield, Sheik will have all those advantages plus landing needles diagonally from the platforms.

 

[AnchorTea]

Yeah, exactly, but on FD, you can use Gyroids and tree to shield yourself, whereas with Battlefield, Sheik will have all those advantages plus landing needles diagonally from the platforms.

You can't just think of your opponent as a cpu.

If you don't believe me. I shall ask an expert.

Hey @ Ian Viola ? Is FD a bad stage for Sheik or a good stage in the Villager MU?

 

[Sonsa]

You can't just think of your opponent as a cpu.

If you don't believe me. I shall ask an expert.

Hey @ Ian Viola ? Is FD a bad stage for Sheik or a good stage in the Villager MU?

I'm...not...? I have experience in this matchup on both stages and found FD much easier for the reasons I've stated...

 

[AnchorTea]

I'm...not...? I have experience in this matchup on both stages and found FD much easier for the reasons I've stated...

Sheik can't exactly use Battlefield to her full potential. While Villager can. FD is a good stage for Sheik because of Needle Camping (Gyroids can't be shields forever and ya know it) and the fact that Sheik has her U-Smash and Down Throw combos. FD is a terrible stage for Villager due to reasons @ zeezee stated.

 

[Ian Viola]

@ AnchorTea I'm not an expert. I'm some random from NC and I don't even play Villager except for trolling purposes. I want to say that Sheik is pretty good on Battlefield though. I'd like to think that the best stages for Villager would be Town and City, with Smashville being second best, but I'm not the best judge of Sheik or Villager, as all of the play these characters get in my state is either sparse or fraudulent.

 

[Mtn64]

Wha? Villagers best stage against Sheik FD? Needle spam? You've developed a counter to this?
Upload some recorded videos so we can see your reasoning. Quality doesn't matter.
I find it much easier to fight sheik on BF. I think platforms really help that MU.
Much easier zoning and gimps are 50% easier to do (especially catching jump into bouncing end lag)
The high ceiling also makes it problematic for Sheik to kill with USmash and UAir, while we can punish misplaced move with OoS SH Axe.
Axe can also catch Bouncing Fish and UpB, which are kills on the side blastzone.
Just take care to not be on the platform above Sheik.

Sheik for example, you wanna take to FD, so she can't attack from above as often, run, or sweet spot up smash like on Battlefield.

But yeah, Smashville is alright. The moving platform can help with bowling ball drops, and timbers, though a little predictable.

Platforms are dressing ease of zoning. SH Nair on opponents above you is free pressure, run off slingshots are much easier, run off jump slingshots to hit other platform, and Full Hop BAirs/FAirs are almost 100% guaranteed to hit players on platforms.
What does this mean?
Controlling the air is much easier for Villager now.
When zoning on FD, I have a maximum of like 5 options.
I can do my Lloid BAirs for a bit, then start reading their jumps? If they take to perfect shielding and getting in, I can bait Nair with empty hop and grab. Or, I can just do a backwards hop NAir and hopefully put more distance. I can also do a SH ground slingshot to interrupt dash, usually a BAir for knock back to continue zoning process, or I can water tree to bait out their shield, and during shield stun break it with Axe.
The thing about platform stages is that I get ALL I listed, and then much more shenanigans to the zone game. Slingshot zoning becomes much easier to do, The opponent is limited to few get in options, and jump reads are much more lenient on how many I need to get in before they get in. NAir becomes much better with platforms, USmash sweetspots on BF, and UTilt becomes much easier to hit. To top it off, dropping projectiles off is a neat added bonus. Dash attack hits at a nice angle, and full hop landing on to platform to read a FAir with fsmash is a death sentence.
Honestly, that's how I think of platforms for Villager.
I'm sure other pros can talk about this for much longer, I just woke not too long ago and not in that much mood to talk about this XD
@ zeezee should be able to put a word in, he's talked about this before I believe.

 

[Sonsa]

Wha? Villagers best stage against Sheik FD? Needle spam? You've developed a counter to this?
Upload some recorded videos so we can see your reasoning. Quality doesn't matter.
I find it much easier to fight sheik on BF. I think platforms really help that MU.
Much easier zoning and gimps are 50% easier to do (especially catching jump into bouncing end lag)
The high ceiling also makes it problematic for Sheik to kill with USmash and UAir, while we can punish misplaced move with OoS SH Axe.
Axe can also catch Bouncing Fish and UpB, which are kills on the side blastzone.
Just take care to not be on the platform above Sheik.


Platforms are dressing ease of zoning. SH Nair on opponents above you is free pressure, run off slingshots are much easier, run off jump slingshots to hit other platform, and Full Hop BAirs/FAirs are almost 100% guaranteed to hit players on platforms.
What does this mean?
Controlling the air is much easier for Villager now.
When zoning on FD, I have a maximum of like 5 options.
I can do my Lloid BAirs for a bit, then start reading their jumps? If they take to perfect shielding and getting in, I can bait Nair with empty hop and grab. Or, I can just do a backwards hop NAir and hopefully put more distance. I can also do a SH ground slingshot to interrupt dash, usually a BAir for knock back to continue zoning process, or I can water tree to bait out their shield, and during shield stun break it with Axe.
The thing about platform stages is that I get ALL I listed, and then much more shenanigans to the zone game. Slingshot zoning becomes much easier to do, The opponent is limited to few get in options, and jump reads are much more lenient on how many I need to get in before they get in. NAir becomes much better with platforms, USmash sweetspots on BF, and UTilt becomes much easier to hit. To top it off, dropping projectiles off is a neat added bonus. Dash attack hits at a nice angle, and full hop landing on to platform to read a FAir with fsmash is a death sentence.
Honestly, that's how I think of platforms for Villager.
I'm sure other pros can talk about this for much longer, I just woke not too long ago and not in that much mood to talk about this XD
@ zeezee should be able to put a word in, he's talked about this before I believe.

Well against needle spam on FD you just launch a gyroid and walk behind it. You can up-tilt, f-tilt, nair, uair, fair, plenty of options covered by a gyroid shield. Gyroid down and Sheik got away? Gyroid again and approach.

And yes, I think you need to approach as Sheik can actually out-camp us with her mobility, great crouch avoiding slingshots, and needle spam.

My best matches were before the Mewtwo Patch I believe, but I'll try to have some more sets, sorry.

I think Sheiks a tough matchup on both stages, but on Battlefield your usual advantages aren't actually that helpful. Yeah, you can throw some bowling balls down, but Sheiks want to fair you, not uptilt or something. And mistime this - youll get a sweet spot upsmash.

I actually find gimping easier on FD and omegas as Sheik won't have those platforms to bouncing fish/warp to.

Controlling the air can be easier, yes, but Sheik has too many places to hide and run to that you can't usually keep up with. Again, the usual advantage not being so helpful.

On FD, no where for her to run, she has to try and get past or jump over gyroids, trees, slingshots, and you. It's a lot less of a chase and a lot more of how much pressure you can give without showing an opening. I find the off-stage game easier, zoning easier, predicting my opponent easier.

If I can be more specific, my more convincing success with this matchup took place on Omega Battlefield and even a bit of the flatter island transformation of Delfino Plaza. It's a lot easier to back Sheik into a corner and tricking her into eating a tree. On Battlefield her advantages outweighed mine by what seems like a lot and I've only won there against her when I was able to use the trip sapling.

 

[Mtn64]

Well against needle spam on FD you just launch a gyroid and walk behind it. You can up-tilt, f-tilt, nair, uair, fair, plenty of options covered by a gyroid shield. Gyroid down and Sheik got away? Gyroid again and approach.

And yes, I think you need to approach as Sheik can actually out-camp us with her mobility, great crouch avoiding slingshots, and needle spam.

My best matches were before the Mewtwo Patch I believe, but I'll try to have some more sets, sorry.

I think Sheiks a tough matchup on both stages, but on Battlefield your usual advantages aren't actually that helpful. Yeah, you can throw some bowling balls down, but Sheiks want to fair you, not uptilt or something. And mistime this - youll get a sweet spot upsmash.

I actually find gimping easier on FD and omegas as Sheik won't have those platforms to bouncing fish/warp to.

Controlling the air can be easier, yes, but Sheik has too many places to hide and run to that you can't usually keep up with. Again, the usual advantage not being so helpful.

On FD, no where for her to run, she has to try and get past or jump over gyroids, trees, slingshots, and you. It's a lot less of a chase and a lot more of how much pressure you can give without showing an opening. I find the off-stage game easier, zoning easier, predicting my opponent easier.

If I can be more specific, my more convincing success with this matchup took place on Omega Battlefield and even a bit of the flatter island transformation of Delfino Plaza. It's a lot easier to back Sheik into a corner and tricking her into eating a tree. On Battlefield her advantages outweighed mine by what seems like a lot and I've only won there against her when I was able to use the trip sapling.

You said it yourself; we need to approach because she can out camp us.
The problem I'm getting from this post is that its contradicting itself.
First it says "we need to approach Sheik" and then it explains how FD makes it harder to get past zoning. Honestly, I zone Sheik regardless, mostly offensive zoning, but I don't see how NOT having platforms makes it better.
I don't really understand why the fsmash off ledge/platform option has been talked about again, you almost never have the time to drop an fsmash off a platform, let alone have it connect.
If we didn't want her to run, wouldn't we rather have a smaller stage?
If we want to approach, wouldn't we want the better and safer added options?
Also, I was under the impression we were talking about FD, not FD and Omegas.
In most tournaments Omega seems to be a CP thing, and most definitely a different stage pick (striking OM strikes FD as well.)
I've already explained that if Sheik is hiding on a platform it's free damage. That's not where Sheik wants to be. She doesn't have many options going off the ledge, and anything she would do is punishable by OoS NAir.
What I also don't understand is your description on how you use lloid. No Sheik worth their sheikah tribe respect should be allowing you to walk behind lloid and use UTilt, let alone DTilt or FTilt. I could see empty hop grabs or empty hop tilts, but legit walking past it?
Risking a UTilt that close is ridiculous as well, it's easily punishable.
If you Lloid too close, all she has to do is run before the active hitbox comes out and grab you.
Why would we ever give her the advantage of having an easier needle spam and easy approaches?
Pressuring her is much easier with platforms. It's much more difficult to get past a barrage of projectiles when there is a platform in the way. Again, landing on it is free percent if you're alert enough to capitalize on it.
The matchup itself isn't very good as it is, I'd rather have as many options against Sheik as possible instead of one easily countered (by Sheik) game plan.

 

[Sonsa]

You said it yourself; we need to approach because she can out camp us.
The problem I'm getting from this post is that its contradicting itself.
First it says "we need to approach Sheik" and then it explains how FD makes it harder to get past zoning. Honestly, I zone Sheik regardless, mostly offensive zoning, but I don't see how NOT having platforms makes it better.
I don't really understand why the fsmash off ledge/platform option has been talked about again, you almost never have the time to drop an fsmash off a platform, let alone have it connect.
If we didn't want her to run, wouldn't we rather have a smaller stage?
If we want to approach, wouldn't we want the better and safer added options?
Also, I was under the impression we were talking about FD, not FD and Omegas.
In most tournaments Omega seems to be a CP thing, and most definitely a different stage pick (striking OM strikes FD as well.)
I've already explained that if Sheik is hiding on a platform it's free damage. That's not where Sheik wants to be. She doesn't have many options going off the ledge, and anything she would do is punishable by OoS NAir.
What I also don't understand is your description on how you use lloid. No Sheik worth their sheikah tribe respect should be allowing you to walk behind lloid and use UTilt, let alone DTilt or FTilt. I could see empty hop grabs or empty hop tilts, but legit walking past it?
Risking a UTilt that close is ridiculous as well, it's easily punishable.
If you Lloid too close, all she has to do is run before the active hitbox comes out and grab you.
Why would we ever give her the advantage of having an easier needle spam and easy approaches?
Pressuring her is much easier with platforms. It's much more difficult to get past a barrage of projectiles when there is a platform in the way. Again, landing on it is free percent if you're alert enough to capitalize on it.
The matchup itself isn't very good as it is, I'd rather have as many options against Sheik as possible instead of one easily countered (by Sheik) game plan.

Except I'm not contradicting myself? Yeah, you need to approach on FD. Push your wall towards her, leave her no where to go but death. On Battlefield there's more area to hide and escape to.

I don't...know how to say it any clearer, the platforms give both characters benefits and they benefit Sheik way more. Okay, we get a bowling ball surprise kill if our opponent isn't focused, but we also have to deal with her getting sweet spot upsmashes from under the platform, her having more recovery/escape options, her throwing needles diagonally from above easily, her edgeguarding with grenade easier, her getting around way faster than we can.

But on FD or an omega stage, there's nowhere to hide, Sheik can only really throw needles horizontally which we can then block with gyroid and get closer as she won't land on a platform and safely get away, she'll land on our level and get a dash attack or some punish.

And alright, fine, we can talk exclusively about FD, ballooning over to the other side is a little stricter though, I think the bottom thing gets quite low.

And Sheik on platforms isn't bad, certainly not a free punish? How's it free? But running off fair, bair, or a jump to run away somewhere else to charge needles are all fine options. Platforms also can get in our way, trying to punish with turnips or nair, getting stopped by a platform, Sheik safe and sound under ready with an up-smash.

Huh? What's not to...I dunno how to be clearer, you set up a gyroid, don't walk past it, walk behind it as a shield. Sheik can't really touch you with too many things, she should jump over you, maybe try a shield grab if they're a bit gutsy, but when they jump you prepare with the options I listed and if they don't, grab.

You don't just set it up in front of her, you do so at midrange or a lil farther, gyroid goes a nice length. On Battlefield Sheik would scoff this off and jump on a platform to get away or attack you from behind. On FD, they're getting a wall pushed at em. Jump and get a fair or something? Stay and get a gyroid or grabbed? Roll at the perfect time and get read? Go on the ledge? Less favorable options.

That's fine reasoning, but my point is Sheik has more options than you on Battlefield than on FD.

 

[Mtn64]

*sigh* again with the reference to FSmash, which I said was basically void against Sheik
I'm gonna stop the train here since this is more of a stage argument than discussion.
I'm sure something works for you that wins you games, I'll stick to what wins me mine too.
Do upload some videos so I can see.

 

[PyroBandit]

(I'm a Smashboards scrub and don't know how to spoiler lol)

What are everyone's thoughts on Dreamland 64 making a return? Chances are high that the stage will be legal, or at least a CP.

It seems like a good stage for Villy, with a lot of edgeguard potential and platforms, but the high blast zone also restricts some of his vertical kill moves (growing tree, UpSmash, UpAir, etc.). I'm thinking it'll be an ok stage, but not the best place depending on the matchup.