VIDEO SMASH NEXUS - forum is up!

[Jammer]

Okay, Buzz.

Now, I just have a couple questions:

We can use some fancy JavaScript, right? I want to have the search results be like Google Video, where you click on it and it and the video expands right there.

How sophisticated is the database going to be? For example, will there be a time stamp on every video? Will every tourney video have a tournament stamp? Will there be special tags, like "Glitch" and "Items on" and stuff like that?

How hard can I hit the server? For example, say there are 2000 videos total in the database. I say I want a video with PC Chris, and that number drops down to 50. Then I say I want a video of PC Chris playing Falco, and it drops to 25. And it could be displaying the videos right from the very start, so that when you first see the home page, the search results will be all 2000 videos, in order of ranking, but then it narrows down as you restrict the search. The problem is that that would really hit the server.

There was some other stuff, but I forgot it. I'll ask when I think of it.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Okay, Buzz.

Okay, Jammer.

Now, I just have a couple questions:

And I just have a couple answers.

We can use some fancy JavaScript, right? I want to have the search results be like Google Video, where you click on it and it and the video expands right there.

Hmmm... My site will feature some JavaScript, but the fancy stuff will have to wait until version 2.0. I just want it to be functional before I make it adorable.

How sophisticated is the database going to be? For example, will there be a time stamp on every video? Will every tourney video have a tournament stamp? Will there be special tags, like "Glitch" and "Items on" and stuff like that?

The database will be rather basic to start with. For time stamp, every set has a month and year (most people don't know or care what exact day a match took place). Every set also has its "stakes" marked (friendly, money match, tournament). Special tags will come later if fans decide they want them. As of right now, the focus is finding players, characters, and stages.

How hard can I hit the server? For example, say there are 2000 videos total in the database. I say I want a video with PC Chris, and that number drops down to 50. Then I say I want a video of PC Chris playing Falco, and it drops to 25. And it could be displaying the videos right from the very start, so that when you first see the home page, the search results will be all 2000 videos, in order of ranking, but then it narrows down as you restrict the search. The problem is that that would really hit the server.

I'm not sure how hard you can hit it because I just started web hosting. I suppose I will find out once the floodgates open. As for searches, I designed it carefully so that it will never attempt to return ALL matches. If you search "all videos", it restricts results to x + 1 (where x is the number of results per page set by a variable); the page displays x results, and if it senses x + 1 results in that search, it lets you move onto the next "page". So, that will prevent database abuse. As for your little filtering trick, that will come later with other JavaScript goodies. For now, just a basic search tool is what people need.

There was some other stuff, but I forgot it. I'll ask when I think of it.

I am trying to be flexible, but the current focus of the VSN is to stop the onslaught of threads entitled "are there any good Ganondorf videos?" Instead, they will pop onto the Nexus, search for Ganondorf vs anyone (any players), and just browse for a while. If the results don't show up there, they can assume that more need to be made or found.

 

[Jammer]

Okay, so you're saying you'd like to get this up and running as quickly as possible, and not worry about making it better until later. That is a smart thing to do. I'm more of a perfectionist, so I wouldn't think of doing that.

In that case, I suggest just putting the search queries in a vertical box on the left like in my layout, and having the results on the right. It will take a "Search" button and a few lines of JavaScript to get it working wonderfully. We can then work from there.

The biggest problem, right now, is the lack of videos. The current user interface is pretty sucky, but it's good enough to use. You even have nice character icons and color-coded results. Once there are a good amount of videos on the Nexus, the user experience will be vastly improved.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Yeah, the current demo does in fact SUCK very very much. I assure you the version sitting on my screen right now is vastly improved. And yeah, once users can sign in and index videos, the master index will be AMAZING. So far, the search is limited to the previous beta team's efforts.

 

[halfDemon]

I was thinking less of a vertical layout, as scrolling up and down tends to not be too intuitive.

"Display Most Viewed/Rated/Searched": Clicking on Most Viewed, Highest Rated, or Most Searched here would display the corresponding results in the "Results" frame.

"Search Bar": Here you would choose which Smash game you are seeking videos for, and then either a pop up or a drop down menu would appear where you enter the search specifics. The menu or pop up would then disappear, and the results be displayed in the "Results" frame.

"Log In/Out": Rather obvious, methinks.

"Submit" If not logged in, it would ask you to log in. If you are logged in, it then creates either a pop up, or loads a new page, specifically for submission. Drop down would be too clustered.

"Random Videos": Displays four to six random thumbnails, or simply text, of videos. Maybe a "refresh" button in case the user wants something else.

"Ad Space": The server has to be payed for, right?

"Results": By default, it would probably start on Most Viewed. Then, and sort of search you make, or chooseing Most Rated, etc. would be displayed here. No scrolling needed, there would preferably be pages. Also, a "Today", "This Week", "Month", etc. would be a nice addition.


Just something I came up with in a few minutes.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

This is good stuff. I'll have some real fun with AJAX.

 

[Overswarm]

Call me crazy, but don't we already have a homepage?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Call me crazy, but don't we already have a homepage?

The VSN home page... not the Overswarm home page. >_>

 

[Samochan]

*subscribes*

Dis is an awesome idea, too bad I don't have any munny to donate ;_;

 

[Jammer]

Hmm... I'm don't think I agree with halfDemon that scrolling isn't "intuitive". I mean, every single search engine I know of uses scrolling, and I've never had problems knowing what to do or whatever.

I like the simple search bar he has, though. It would be "Quick search": just type in a name, character (for combo videos or something), or tournament, and it would give you the results. The full search could be hidden, and you would press a little arrow to make it pop out, but I would rather it be there right when you load the page.

EDIT: Oh, and Buzz, that 992 pixel thing? Where do you get that number? Is that how much space you have in the viewing window of a typical web browser on a 1024 x 768 screen?

It's rather large. I'm thinking we can make a nice page about 700 pixels across.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

992 = 1024 - 32

The master div tag restricts everything to that width. I may narrow it a bit further if scroll bars are still too wide. Anyway, here is the latest search page:

http://video.smashnexus.net/screenshots/search1.jpg

I could narrow the layout to 800. After I have everything functioning, I will look into that. I deciding on whether I want a menu framework surrounding the results and whatnot.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

Buzz Im here to help if you need meh...

My art is kinda sucky but I can help on that too if needed... heres an example of my crappy work...

 

[Overswarm]

The VSN home page... not the Overswarm home page. >_>

I know.

Didn't we already have a home page? Ya know, click to go the Nexus from overswarm.com = fill in your information?

 

[sugarpoultry]

It's getting close... SO close! I'm excited to mod this thing! Yep, thats right, I'll be a mod for his site! Fear me! jk

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I will be posting an application process soon for interested team members.

 

[halfDemon]

Many videos go straight to YouTube.


I think we (you) should really talk to Gid about having Smashboards itself promote the VSN. I'm sure he definitely approves of the project, and it would definitely give a major boost.

As an example: you know how when you click on the Tournament Calander forum, it takes you directly to the page, no subforum or anything? Well, right under the Video section, there could be a link straight to the VSN homepage (or thread), along with some announcement thread, and links in the stickies.

It's definitely something to think about. The Smash community needs the VSM, whether the members know it or not.

Just in case you didn't see this earlier.

Oh, and lol at your wife 0-death on you.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Oh, and lol at your wife 0-death on you.

This is why I resort to using my programming prowess instead of my smash skills these days. XD

 

[Crooked Crow]

wow cool. this looks to be awesome

can't wait to see the final version

 

[halfDemon]

This is why I resort to using my programming prowess instead of my smash skills these days. XD

Lol. Smart move, but she can find other ways to best you.

I will be posting an application process soon for interested team members.

I'll be waiting on that.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'll be waiting on that.

Actually, there is something you could do right now (thus essentially guaranteeing you a slot on the team). In preparation for this indexing endeavor, I need someone to go through and prepare "routes". These routes need to be clear definitions of which videos to index so that routes don't accidentally overlap. So, here is an example set of routes: (1) tournament matches forum (2) friendly matches forum (3) character specific video archives (in the character specific forums). I obviously didn't give them any thought, so I have no idea how balanced they are, but that is just an idea of how to get the team to index like crazy without overlapping.

 

[Tom]

I'm very excited about this project.

ie: wow this looks to be awesome

 

[Jammer]

Oooh! I want to get in on the indexing action.

Sign me up, Buzz.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Oooh! I want to get in on the indexing action.

Sign me up, Buzz.

See my post above. Work with halfDemon and start forming several good routes.

 

[Jammer]

Well, I don't know how many people will be working on this, so I don't know how many different routes should be made.

I guess your way is a good as any, Buzz. If we need to, we can separate routes within each subforum by the character of the person making the thread. That might have some problems, but I don't forsee any major problems.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Well, I don't know how many people will be working on this, so I don't know how many different routes should be made.

I guess your way is a good as any, Buzz. If we need to, we can separate routes within each subforum by the character of the person making the thread. That might have some problems, but I don't forsee any major problems.

Well that's just the thing. By having multiple clearly defined routes, in a worst-case scenario, one person would simply pick up more than one route. That's why I think it'd be a good idea to break it down into several routes. That way when the time comes, you can just hit it hard without hesitation.

 

[halfDemon]

I really don't understand what you mean by "routes." Are you just talking about index categories?

 

[Cdbobo]

There ya go, Buzz; have 2 hours of my time. That is, $20 . Hurry up and get this thing done... Hayaku!

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

There ya go, Buzz; have 2 hours of my time. That is, $20 . Hurry up and get this thing done... Haiku!

Awesome! I am forever in your debt. I will get the Nexus up ASAP (hopefully the first wave up this weekend). Wanna join the indexing team? ^_^

 

[Cdbobo]

Nice .
About joining the indexing team; I wouldn't mind helping out a little if I can do something for like half an hour.. I just moved so I'm busily unpacking and stuff atm.. so if it's just for a little while I could pry do something, but if you need a dedicated programming specialist (which I could be if I had the time...) I'm not the answer

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Nice .
About joining the indexing team; I wouldn't mind helping out a little if I can do something for like half an hour.. I just moved so I'm busily unpacking and stuff atm.. so if it's just for a little while I could pry do something, but if you need a dedicated programming specialist (which I could be if I had the time...) I'm not the answer

Well, once I have some "routes" for indexers to follow, I'll post them here and let people pick them.

 

[Jihnsius]

I don't understand what you're getting at with the routes. Elaborate.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I don't understand what you're getting at with the routes. Elaborate.

OK, here goes!

There needs to be some predetermined paths that indexers follow so that they can efficiently index matches without accidentally indexing the same matches. An example of a "route" to follow would be all odd-day threads in the Tournament Video forums. This would allow a different person to index threads that were posted on an even day. So, for instance, person B would index threads that were posted on Nov 30, Nov 28, Nov 26, ... Mar 14, Mar 12, etc. Person A would index threads created on Nov 29, 27, 25, ... Apr 23, Apr 21, etc. The reason is so that many people can index without fear of indexing the same videos as someone else on index. So, if Bob indexes 500 videos per day while Tim indexes only 100 videos per day, Tim would have no fear of accidentally indexing a video Bob already did since they are on different "routes". This way, each team member can index freely.

So, we need to think up several "routes" so that the team can grow freely. If there are more routes than teammates, the teammates can just work on multiple routes. Does this make sense?

 

[Jihnsius]

How 'bout make it so the same URL can't be indexed multiple times?

 

[Jammer]

But then people would still waste the time trying to index the same URL.

And, if the URL is the YouTube video URL, then there is a strong possibility that a duplicate video on YouTube will become a duplicate video on the Nexus.

 

[Jihnsius]

And, if the URL is the YouTube video URL, then there is a strong possibility that a duplicate video on YouTube will become a duplicate video on the Nexus.

That'll happen anyway even with routes.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Well, the routes are not a magical solution to eliminate all duplicates. It will just prevent blatant overlap due to two indexers staring at the same thread. It just grants them a bit a freedom.

EDIT -- Daaaang... The SQL query for doubles search is too big and complicated! It basically locks up the MySQL database.

 

[Jihnsius]

Find a way to condense the info.
Also, implement handling for double URLs.

 

[Jammer]

Find a way to condense the info.
Also, implement handling for double URLs.

I don't see how this advice is at all helpful. Sorry, Jihnsius. Or maybe you were just being silly?

Buzz: I assume you're searching for duplicated videos by searching for videos that match every attribute of another video. That's a O(n^2) operation, if my 8 second think-through of the situation is correct. I don't think you should do it that way.

Instead, make new tables for each combination of players. So, there would be a Ken vs. M2K table, a Ken vs. PC Chris table, and so on. Then search for duplicate videos within those tables. That should take about 2% of the time that the way I assume you're doing it will take. Divide and conquer, baby!

And, if that doesn't work, you can always have a "Report Duplicate Video" button on the Nexus, so that users can do all that work for you. Just a suggestion.

 

[muesli]

wow cool. looks to be awesome


You should count them in next times, If you're finished will you change the appearance?



muesli

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I think I found a solution to reduce the complexity.

EDIT -- WHEW! Problem solved. I went through and filtered out all the lazy fluff. Now the query executes much faster.

Also, I cannot block duplicate URLs (though, I could post a warning when one is detected). Some people (however awkwardly) cram several matches into one video (despite not being a crew battle), so multiple tags in the index need to point to one URL.