Video Game Mafia 2 - End of Line

Raxxel

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You really think my guy Tommy two hands is gonna flip scum?
I'm suggesting the possibility as it applies to us all.

Unvote

I believe Raxxel tried and it resulted in him not voting for anyone. You haven't missed much else really, just a lot of discussion talk.
Important distinction should be made here.

I voted for ? and I wasn't even considered undecided in the vote count, my vote was not accounted for period, it's like I didn't exist within the game. Somebody else voted for Bob Ross and were just considered undecided in the vote count. There is something there to voting ?. It's not worth wasting time on it day 1 though.
 

Raxxel

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For reference:

I wonder...

Vote: ?
I vote for ?.

Vote Count 1.3:
Maven - ? (Red Ryu, Pythag)
Utopian - ? (Dooplissity, Z25)
Kevin - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Tom - ? (Maven, UtopianPoyzin)
Z25 - ? (?)
Undecided - ? (Kevin, Tom, Giraffelasergun)

With ? alive it takes ? to lynch. Deadline is in ?.

edit: Forgot Giraffel
Vote count with me being unaccounted for entirely. If you head to the quoted message, UP points out I'm missing with there being no response from TK.
It might also just be that invalid votes don't do anything but remove you?

vote bob ross
Doop tests the waters by voting for Bob Ross, someone who obviously exists in no way shape or form in this game and is therefor not a valid option to see if they turn up unaccounted for like me.

Vote Count 1.5:
Maven - ? (Red Ryu, Pythag)
Utopian - ? (Z25, ?)
Kevin - ? (Thirdkoopa, Raxxel)
Tom - ? (Maven, UtopianPoyzin, Giraffelasergun)
Undecided - ? (Kevin, Tom, Dooplissity)

With ? alive it takes ? to lynch. Deadline is in ? hours.
They however are still accounted for as undecided.
 

Maven89

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Can you guys just kill atom already and end the phase? He’s obviously not going to post because he knows he can’t defeat my points against him
 

Z25

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Can you guys just kill atom already and end the phase? He’s obviously not going to post because he knows he can’t defeat my points against him
There’s votes on him, but it’s pretty clear that for whatever reason the phase isn’t ending.

Really makes me think we control when the phase ends somehow
 

Raxxel

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I have this weird feeling that maybe I took Theo's words the wrong way.

Maybe he isn't suggesting we lynch soon because the deadline is approaching. Maybe it's in fact the opposite. What if Theo is telling us we want to lynch soon because the day won't end otherwise? What if there is no deadline and we're stuck in a never ending day phase till we lynch?

Anyway, if Tom doesn't post in the next 48 hours I really believe he is the optimal lynch regardless of my reluctance to fulfill Maven's request. We're approaching a week of this phase.
 

Raxxel

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Having now set a deadline of my own for Tom, I want to focus on scumhunting for now while I wait.

So,

Unvote

I'm going to reread through the thread a little to get a sense of who I feel is sus.
 

Raxxel

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Request VoteCount

Gotta see what the tally is before I lay down another vote.
 

Thirdkoopa

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Vote Count 1.8:
Z25 - ? (Red Ryu, Dooplissity)
Tom - ? (Pythag, Raxxel, Maven)
Utopian - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Dooplissity - ? (?)
Thirdkoopa - ? (Kevin)
Undecided - ? (Tom, Giraffelasergun, Z25)

With ? alive it takes ? to lynch. Deadline is in ? hours.
 
Last edited:

Z25

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Well that didn’t work.

Vote: Tom

I have no clue how the phase ends then. Maybe everyone has to post? I hope that’s not the case though as Tom doesn’t seem to want to show.
 

Dooplissity

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Vote Count 1.8:
Z25 - ? (Red Ryu, Dooplissity)
Tom - ? (Pythag, Raxxel, Maven)
Utopian - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Dooplissity - ? (?)
Thirdkoopa - ? (Kevin)
Undecided - ? (Tom, Dooplissity, Giraffelasergun, Z25)

With ? alive it takes ? to lynch. Deadline is in ? hours.
Error or intentional that I'm listed twice?
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Alright, here we go

Tom - Tom hasn't done anything so far. On any other occasion, I would be fine with Tom. But Maven has spent this whole game deliberately trying to take Tom out for reasons that we are unable to know today. My opinion: I trust Maven. While I was curious about "why Tom" for a while, I made my post of curiosity at the same time that I voted for Tom, because I anticipated that Maven couldn't tell us just yet. This turned out to be true, as the Mafia are still present, and they would probably be able to use Maven's information to their advantage. That is a respectable reason to keep quiet, so I am perfectly fine with remaining ignorant for a time to let Maven do what he needs to do with a Tom lynch. If not a lynch, at least pressure until further events arise.

Now, what if Maven is scum? In this case, that would imply that Tom is then town, and Maven is trying to instigate a mislynch. This seems like a terribly silly play, as it would get Maven killed the next day, or night if a vig is present.

The other two possibilities is that the two of them are both scum, which would be incredibly risky but I guess plausible, or their both town. If they're both town, then... this isn't possible. Maven is too seasoned of a player to randomly accuse a fellow townie and is probably the most anti-town move I could imagine in any game. So with TvT off the table, and scum!Maven v town!Tom damning for the mafia, I have no choice but to assume the best in Maven, and hope that they aren't both scum. So I'm down to roll with Maven's plan, as I'm pretty confident that it will lead us to the best-case scenario.

Finally, the last possibility is that Maven is Indy. This would throw a complete wrench into everything, as it would lead to zero information concerning Tom's alignment, either town or scum. So I'm hoping for the best.





Z25 - Sure. We all had discussion about the setup early in the game, as we tested who we could and couldn't vote for. However, I'm not really sure why Z25 is still exclusively posting about the game itself. While the "exclusively" may be an exaggeration, it doesn't really feel like Z25 is trying to scumhunt. You feel? The only reads they have had besides voting Tom per Maven is "I’m fine with Utopian atm. I don’t see him as scum currently not have I found anything bad in his plays so far. my read on Red is more null. I would support a TK lynch I’m just worried that it might have effects we don’t know about that could be bad or good." While I'm fine with setup posts and learning about the game itself, as that too is important, I was rather concerned with this statement:

As for a plan of action, I say figure out game mechanics first. We probably won’t solve them but they’d be a good day one topic to keep discussing as a day one lynch usually won’t make any huge difference in a game overall. It’s day one so we have plenty of phases to go through and can afford a mislynch. It wouldn’t be easy to hunt down scum in this setup day one
Our goal isn't to "mislynch". I would rather we narrow down a lynch target from here on out, as we've had plenty of talk about whether we can or can't vote for "?". You're right; we probably won't figure them out today. So why try to? More and more info will be revealed as the day goes on and flips are revealed, so I would rather we learn about it as we get new info rather than speculate what is and what isn't. It's easy for scum to scoot through the Days while posting about these topics, as it seems like they are genuinely trying to help.
 

UtopianPoyzin

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As for Red Ryu's "scumslip", I personally don't find much water held in that. The term "town" can be used to describe the Town alignment, but also the townspeople as a whole, being everyone in the game. Maybe it would be easier to follow if Z25 said "players", but it's too late, and both terms can mean the same thing.
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Unless Maven is lyncher, then game's over D1
Do you really think he's a lyncher?


Vote Count 1.8:
Z25 - ? (Red Ryu, Dooplissity)
Tom - ? (Pythag, Raxxel, Maven)
Utopian - ? (Thirdkoopa)
Dooplissity - ? (?)
Thirdkoopa - ? (Kevin)
Undecided - ? (Tom, Giraffelasergun, Z25)

With ? alive it takes ? to lynch. Deadline is in ? hours.
Btw where am I?
 

Z25

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Alright, here we go

Tom - Tom hasn't done anything so far. On any other occasion, I would be fine with Tom. But Maven has spent this whole game deliberately trying to take Tom out for reasons that we are unable to know today. My opinion: I trust Maven. While I was curious about "why Tom" for a while, I made my post of curiosity at the same time that I voted for Tom, because I anticipated that Maven couldn't tell us just yet. This turned out to be true, as the Mafia are still present, and they would probably be able to use Maven's information to their advantage. That is a respectable reason to keep quiet, so I am perfectly fine with remaining ignorant for a time to let Maven do what he needs to do with a Tom lynch. If not a lynch, at least pressure until further events arise.

Now, what if Maven is scum? In this case, that would imply that Tom is then town, and Maven is trying to instigate a mislynch. This seems like a terribly silly play, as it would get Maven killed the next day, or night if a vig is present.

The other two possibilities is that the two of them are both scum, which would be incredibly risky but I guess plausible, or their both town. If they're both town, then... this isn't possible. Maven is too seasoned of a player to randomly accuse a fellow townie and is probably the most anti-town move I could imagine in any game. So with TvT off the table, and scum!Maven v town!Tom damning for the mafia, I have no choice but to assume the best in Maven, and hope that they aren't both scum. So I'm down to roll with Maven's plan, as I'm pretty confident that it will lead us to the best-case scenario.

Finally, the last possibility is that Maven is Indy. This would throw a complete wrench into everything, as it would lead to zero information concerning Tom's alignment, either town or scum. So I'm hoping for the best.





Z25 - Sure. We all had discussion about the setup early in the game, as we tested who we could and couldn't vote for. However, I'm not really sure why Z25 is still exclusively posting about the game itself. While the "exclusively" may be an exaggeration, it doesn't really feel like Z25 is trying to scumhunt. You feel? The only reads they have had besides voting Tom per Maven is "I’m fine with Utopian atm. I don’t see him as scum currently not have I found anything bad in his plays so far. my read on Red is more null. I would support a TK lynch I’m just worried that it might have effects we don’t know about that could be bad or good." While I'm fine with setup posts and learning about the game itself, as that too is important, I was rather concerned with this statement:



Our goal isn't to "mislynch". I would rather we narrow down a lynch target from here on out, as we've had plenty of talk about whether we can or can't vote for "?". You're right; we probably won't figure them out today. So why try to? More and more info will be revealed as the day goes on and flips are revealed, so I would rather we learn about it as we get new info rather than speculate what is and what isn't. It's easy for scum to scoot through the Days while posting about these topics, as it seems like they are genuinely trying to help.
I suggested talking game mechanics because getting good reads day one and lynching an actual scum are very unlikely in any game. Most of this thread seemed to be supporting the Tom lynch which i still think is a good move because it’s been quite some time and Tom hasn’t shown once. I’d rather we lynch someone who’s inactive then someone actively contributing. If Tom has been this inactivity, he’s very likely not showing up to play. In which case I wouldn’t want to end up killing Someone who could actually help town, weather it be with votes when we need them down the line or any potential PRs the town has to side then.

Lynching someone who isn’t around for any of that is better then to lynch someone who would be.

Combining that with trying to get a feel for the game could really help town start off strong if we can figure out hidden factors at play.

That was my thoughts for today, past day one I honestly wouldn’t focus on the game mechanics and try to piece together what we learn from this phases end and the night phase to helps us actively scum hunt on a much more focused term come next phase.

Right now we have no real leads, but after day one in any game is when town can really pick up with scum hunting.

I do have a question for you. If Tom is town, what do you think maven’s reason for the lynch will be, and what will you think of his actions?

This is actually open to everyone else as well as that seems to be the biggest development we have had this phase
 

Z25

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If maven is a lyncher I’d be surprised to see it, but it’s also kind of dumb if that’s actually In this game with all the other things at play. Especially with how easy it would have been for maven to win.

That be pretty unbalanced imo
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Yeah, but Maven's actions have been really inconsistent if he was in fact the indy lyncher, if it exists. For one, why would he go guns blazing to try to get Tom lynched? We would all have to agree with it, and the fact that it has even come up at all means that Maven failed as a lyncher. For one, being so open about his lynch target would make us all dubious about it, which we are. And, if his only wincon is to lynch Tom as a Lyncher, then he shouldn't have been as obvious as he was, as Lynchers are historically anti-town, right? (from mafiascumwiki).

For example, let's say I'm the jester, and I'm trying to get lynched D1 or else I fail my wincon. Shouldn't I be more subtle about it instead of going around yelling "lynch me lynch me"? His actions just don't line up with being the lyncher, which is why I'm fairly confident in his townie-ness.
 

UtopianPoyzin

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My biggest gripe with the Tom vote is that Maven's actions have led me to believe that Tom staying alive is NOT game threatening, as Maven was willing to put off the Tom lynch until tomorrow. So does Tom's death not matter as much as it was implied? Tricky business. That's why I'm staying off of voting Tom for now. I'm aware of the impending deadline, and I'll make sure that I put in a vote soon. But if it's not necessary to vote for the player that hasn't submitted ANY CONTENT yet, then I'd rather wait so they can post / be replaced. A Tom lynch is not useful to anybody besides Maven. I'd like to learn what I can from them so that I can evaluate his stance v Maven's.

The reason that I posted "we're willing to vote you out" to Tom was kinda an attempt to dissuade lurking, but it appears that it's just honest-to-goodness inactivity.
 

UtopianPoyzin

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I’d rather we lynch someone who’s inactive then someone actively contributing. If Tom has been this inactivity, he’s very likely not showing up to play.
This logic applies to lurkers who we know are reading the thread. Once again, a Tom lynch is completely useless and I would rather they replace so we can get any info we can out of this slot.
 

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I’ll say this, if maven doesn’t offer us an explanation tomorrow and isn’t a lyncher then we will really need to consider what his goal was and if it was for town or not
 

Z25

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This logic applies to lurkers who we know are reading the thread. Once again, a Tom lynch is completely useless and I would rather they replace so we can get any info we can out of this slot.
The only problem there is, look how hard it was to get even the original amount third wanted.

Find a replacement feels very unlikely and challenging. So I’m not even sure third could.

If we don’t go for Tom though, who would you suggest?
 

UtopianPoyzin

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I’ll say this, if maven doesn’t offer us an explanation tomorrow and isn’t a lyncher then we will really need to consider what his goal was and if it was for town or not
Naturally

The only problem there is, look how hard it was to get even the original amount third wanted.

Find a replacement feels very unlikely and challenging. So I’m not even sure third could.

If we don’t go for Tom though, who would you suggest?
My two top scum reads rn are Tom and you. My post above kind of outlined that.



For lesser scumreads, Raxxel kind of falls under the logic I have for you, but to less extreme. And his content has been immensely improved since Jungle Repub, so that's all I can ask for on that front. KevinM is also feeling null-scummy for me, even after his return to the game. I don't know, I'm just not a fan of his refusal to consider Tom, so it kind of rubbed me as if he doesn't want to look at all perspectives.

Everybody else is null or town but I'm not going into that rn.
 

Pythag

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Mavens signed kinda his death warrant if Tom flips town and he has no response.

this eliminates an inactive, it casts a lot of light on kev and maven.

I think it’s the play that gives us the most info.
 

Raxxel

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To make sure I'm giving Tom a fair shake,

Tom Tom

Since I mentioned Kevin as well, it's only fair that I extend the courtesy to Tom. As for now, after some consideration, Maven is probably town, as much as his content annoys me. I'm curious as to what he has to gain from a Tom lynch, but we'll see soon enough. Kevin's defense of Tom strikes me as odd and arbitrary, but outside of that I really don't have much to work off of for scum reading.
 

Z25

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Naturally



My two top scum reads rn are Tom and you. My post above kind of outlined that.



For lesser scumreads, Raxxel kind of falls under the logic I have for you, but to less extreme. And his content has been immensely improved since Jungle Repub, so that's all I can ask for on that front. KevinM is also feeling null-scummy for me, even after his return to the game. I don't know, I'm just not a fan of his refusal to consider Tom, so it kind of rubbed me as if he doesn't want to look at all perspectives.

Everybody else is null or town but I'm not going into that rn.
If Tom is a too scum read why are you seemingly hesitant to vote him? I’m guessing it’s because you don’t seem to want to full trust mavens action? Which that’s understandable to have doubts, I haven’t been much of a fan of the way he’s going about this either
 

Raxxel

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You'll probably get your Tom lynch, please post something that doesn't have to do with eviscerating Tom. You haven't actually contributed to the scum hunt conversation at all, you're lucky that the guy you're gunning for is AFK or there would hardly even be a consideration.
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Tom is a scum read, yes, because of Maven’s insistence. I just feel sick with voting him D1 with no content whatsoever because Maven revealed it’s not completely necessary to lynch Tom at THIS MOMENT on Day 1. I just want Tom or his replacement to say something, or else we gain absolutely nothing from his death if he turns up town. (Besides his role reveal, but I’m talking the whole scheme of things, like a dead Townie D1 & N1 where the first lynch is an inactive is no bueno.)

You know what I mean? Like, he’s probably scum, but I want to hear a single word out of him. Maybe that makes me look like scum, or maybe I’m selfish and asking too much. I just can’t endorse it...
 

UtopianPoyzin

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I’m going only off Maven’s word. The big post regarding why Tom is scum based off of Maven’s actions only is how I really feel.

But my whole premise for belief is based off of Maven’s actions only. And while I wouldn’t usually trust:
,
I feel like I’m obligated to, as it would be helping out a player who appears to be town. Yet, it’s posts like those that make me want to wait on going through with it.
 
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