Video Game Mafia 2 - End of Line

[Raxxel]

This is twice you've called me noncommittal I believe.

Day 1, I thought you and UP were lynch bait. You two (from now the two games I've played) are almost comically deemed as scummy by the posts y'all make. As such, I didn't want to just hop on the easy wagons. I was suspicious of Kevin, who I couldn't exactly figure out where he stood. Something about how he treated you two made me second guess what was actually going on.

Day 1 ended with no lynch and was ultimately a disaster.

Day 2 I wasn't about to have same thing happen, and I didn't like the sneaky hammer on you UP tried to do. That was pretty grime. Had the town swayed to try to kill you, I would gone with it. You weren't my first choice, but I didn't want to have a NL again. Fortunately that wasn't the case and we killed UP.

Day 3 Because of UP's flip, you're clear in my mind, because I don't think UP would be trying to bus you in such a grimey way. I don't think both of you were scum.

I don't see that as incredibly non committal, I see it more as responding to what's going on.

I'm curious right now about Z25, and what's being brought up against him.

Here's how I'm grouping the game right now.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Doop - town, if he was targetted, and that got swapped for maven, doop's clear in my book.
Raxxel - town, UP trying to kill him at the very end makes me think that it wasn't SvS
______________________________________________________________________________________

Red
GLG
I need to reread these guys. I've got hard nulls on them. The posts have been helpful it seems.
With kevin dying I wanna see where his head was at before he died. Gun to my head I think I trust red over glg.
______________________________________________________________________________________
Z25 - Could be wrapped up in a bunch of lies regarding the bus driver claim, I'm still hesitant to believe that.
xivii - could look opportunistic trying to throw votes on z25 while it seems (if I'm a barometer for the game) that there's still confusion as to what is being claimed, what happened with doop, etc. It doesn't feel too grimey, it actually seems pretty well laid out.
______________________________________________________________________________________

TK - wut



I guess I can see why you'd think that, but you're likewise not going to get anywhere by lynching me. But w/e

Hm. Going over your posts, this is a rather fair assessment. It's a defensive post, but doesn't say to me "why fry me?". Alright.

Unvote

Very curious on your Red Ryu read. You see him as less scummy than GLG?

Actually, thinking about it, there's no sense in beating around the bush. I was informed that the deadline is only three days today. And that if we fail to lynch, there will be a negative consequence.

I see.

I'll give it 24 hours before I vote Z, as I'm convinced something is up with him. I want Ryu and GLG to not sit this one out.

 

[Pythag]

Hm. Going over your posts, this is a rather fair assessment. It's a defensive post, but doesn't say to me "why fry me?". Alright.

Unvote

Very curious on your Red Ryu read. You see him as less scummy than GLG?

I currently do.

GLG and RR have..i dunno, strange interactions with UP in my opinion?

Page 2 of this game has an interaction between UP and GLG that just doesn't seem to feel...organic? Knowing now that UP has flipped godfather, this interaction between the two of them has pinged me.

UP and GLG don't interact with each other again until :

(WRT Maven wanting to lynch Tom)

He can't defend against points that don't exist.

UP liked this post

UP then comments on RR's scumslip.

As for Red Ryu's "scumslip", I personally don't find much water held in that. The term "town" can be used to describe the Town alignment, but also the townspeople as a whole, being everyone in the game. Maybe it would be easier to follow if Z25 said "players", but it's too late, and both terms can mean the same thing.

is this UP trying to save a teammate here?


GLG later posts :

I got sick yesterday but I feel mostly better now.

Vote: Raxxel.

Would go UP or Maven if it comes down to it, but I think raxxel is the most likely scummer right now.

First mention I believe of GLG wanting to lynch UP. He hasn't made much discussion about it, it looks like he's just signaling, while his vote is safely on someone else that the town is finding scummy.

Now looking at EoD yesterDay, GLG is actually the last vote on UP. I believe there was a majority before that, but he's on it. Is it too little too late? idk

YesterDay ends with Xivii convincing RR to consider the UP wagon, he jumps off of Raxxel, but doesn't put a vote on anyone else. (I know it looks like it in the final vote tally, but I believe that's incorrect, becuase I can't find him putting a vote back on anyone else)

#HBC | Red Ryu Do you still want to lynch Raxxel? Do you think UP and Rax were both scum?



Looking at this again, I'm more convinced that Xivii is playing strong town.
He's making good arguments. He was also the first to bring up that UP tried to hammer Rax sneaky like.


I also think that Kevin's death is supposed to 'lead' us to lynching Rax, since Rax was Kevin's most hated slot. I don't think both UP and Rax were scum though.

Rax
Doop
Xivii

Z25
RR
GLG

I think between the three of them, Z25, RR and GLG is where a scummer is.

I don't think GLG's position on UP's wagon really does much for him, as there was little activity, I don't think there was going to be any great shifting of the wagon to Rax, Xivii kinda made UP look pretty bad. Why not just hop on the wagon at the last minute.
I think his interactions with UP D1 were strange, and he also didn't vote UP, but said he was willing, which would be a very safe statement, since both of them were in hot water. When push came to shove though he only voted UP at like the last possible chance to.

Given UP's flip, I see why he wasn't in a hurry.

vote GLG

T Theo , you were on the UP wagon early. Who are you voting for toDay?

 

[Dooplissity]

given that we had no idea where ? or TK was voting, and deadline was presumably fast approaching, and GLG was only publically putting UP to L-2, I think scum!glg presumes he can just sit still and UP probably lives. Based on who was trying to save GLG, both Ryu and Z25 look much worse.

I could maybe get behind a Ryu wagon, but GLG's thought process on D1 was really closely mirrored to mine, and I struggle to see how we'd be of one mind if he were Scum.

 

[Dooplissity]

*based upon who was trying to save Z25

lateposting is bad, kids

 

[Dooplissity]

**** EVERYTHING I MEAN UP

 

[Pythag]

so wait, you would still rather a z25 lynch occur?

gosh, I really don’t wanna be wrong, I just have a hard time seeing him as scummy. I see that happening because there was a ton of confusion with his role, but he seems to have cleared that up.

 

[Dooplissity]

there was a ton of confusion with his role, but he seems to have cleared that up.

I do not remotely agree with this.

 

[Pythag]

I do not remotely agree with this.

That’s fine, I figured you and xivii would disagree there.

what do you do if z25 flips town? Where do you look next?

 

[Pythag]

Or is the plan lynch z25 today, lynch you tomorrow for your contract?

 

[Dooplissity]

Or is the plan lynch z25 today, lynch you tomorrow for your contract?

If he flips Town I immediately selfvote on D4 due to contract shenaniganry.

We could also flip this if we're less confident that z25 is Scum, but I feel good about it.

 

[Pythag]

H

If he flips Town I immediately selfvote on D4 due to contract shenaniganry.

We could also flip this if we're less confident that z25 is Scum, but I feel good about it.

how negative are the negative effects if you aren’t lynched?

 

[giraffelasergun]

I was one of the contracts. It promised extra power if I was willing to make a sacrifice.

When I signed it, I got told what that sacrifice is - me. If I get myself lynched today or tomorrow, I'll survive it and the rest of the contract will complete. If I live until N4 without fulfilling the contract, bad things happen. I won't go into detail, but suffice it to say it's not good. If we think we have a solid target today, I'm ok stalling one day, but we probably have to lynch me this phase or the next.

Do you think the consequences of not lynching you are worse than it would be to waste a day phase? Realistically there are two more people we need to kill, and we have 8 people Alive(You, me, Pythag, Raxxel, RR, Z25, XiVii, and TK). If we mislynch today I would not want to lynch you tomorrow, because I tthat would eliminate almost all the wiggle room we have.

Dooplissity let's do it toMorrow. I think lynching Z may end the game toDay.

Why do you think Z25 is scum outside of his role claiming issues?

I don't think GLG's position on UP's wagon really does much for him, as there was little activity, I don't think there was going to be any great shifting of the wagon to Rax, Xivii kinda made UP look pretty bad. Why not just hop on the wagon at the last minute.
I think his interactions with UP D1 were strange, and he also didn't vote UP, but said he was willing, which would be a very safe statement, since both of them were in hot water. When push came to shove though he only voted UP at like the last possible chance to.

Given UP's flip, I see why he wasn't in a hurry.

vote GLG

T Theo , you were on the UP wagon early. Who are you voting for toDay?

When I switched votes, Raxxel had 4 votes on him and UP only had three. If I were scum with UP, why would I switch from the wagon that had more votes on it to lynch my scummate?

Ryu is my top lynch choice for today. I think Raxxel, Doop, and XiVii are all likely town so I would not vote to lynch them.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Did anyone receive a mysterious message on night 1/night 2 in line with the one z25 received from TK on night 0? If yes, please respond with yes and what night, do not share the content of the message unless you feel like it will be helpful for everyone to know.

 

[Dooplissity]

Do you think the consequences of not lynching you are worse than it would be to waste a day phase? Realistically there are two more people we need to kill, and we have 8 people Alive(You, me, Pythag, Raxxel, RR, Z25, XiVii, and TK). If we mislynch today I would not want to lynch you tomorrow, because I tthat would eliminate almost all the wiggle room we have.



Why do you think Z25 is scum outside of his role claiming issues?

I don't want to go into detail for obvious reasons, but we have more wiggle room than you'd think if I get lynched on D4.

The role thing is the biggest - I can't see town!z25 not clarifying how it works with TK given all the confusion we've had, and I can see a UP/Z25 scumteam making that mistake. Beyond that, though, I think the Raxxel wagon yesterday was really bad, and that points to Z25 and Ryu.

 

[Dooplissity]

The one I really doubt is that if Z25 was genuinely confused about how it was supposed to work, and thought one of the possibilities was that he redirected me doing the NK onto Maven, he shouldn't have been OK with me getting cleared by everyone who having apparently been the NK target. He would've been upfront and been like "well idk if Doop's really clear..."

 

[Z25]

I don't want to go into detail for obvious reasons, but we have more wiggle room than you'd think if I get lynched on D4.

The role thing is the biggest - I can't see town!z25 not clarifying how it works with TK given all the confusion we've had, and I can see a UP/Z25 scumteam making that mistake. Beyond that, though, I think the Raxxel wagon yesterday was really bad, and that points to Z25 and Ryu.

How many times can I Say this?

this is the description I was given:
“This will make all actions from one player target another”

it is literally describe as a bus driver role using the whip from my character velvet from some game called odins sphere that I have literally never heard of till this game.

As I’ve stated my states that line specifically and says I can bus people. I’m not claiming redirector. My claim was that the actions done to one player get linked to the other, because from my understanding that’s exactly how this works.

Also why would you assume I didn’t check with TK? I have, any info I’ve posted here before I’ve made sure to clarify first with our host.

I get you don’t trust the description but I have nothing to gain by lying with this and if I had scum teammates there would be no contradictions in my claims obviously.

If I was scum I sure as hell wouldn’t **** up my fake claim like that. What I’m telling you and have been stating is exactly what my pm days, but take it as you will.

 

[Pythag]

z25, did you get a message saying that your bus driving was successful?

the question I’m wondering is this:

suppose that you directed any action to doop went to maven.

what if mafia just targeted maven?

would you have any way to know if doop had actually been targeted?

 

[Z25]

z25, did you get a message saying that your bus driving was successful?

the question I’m wondering is this:

suppose that you directed any action to doop went to maven.

what if mafia just targeted maven?

would you have any way to know if doop had actually been targeted?

I unfortunately haven’t gotten any confirmations that it went through. I only had an idea that it worked because of what Utopian said the other day, which he seems to think something else is at play. Which is possible, but I’d like to see them elaborate on it as between that and the supposed contract penalty, he’s been keeping a lot to himself when it would actually help town. At least imo anyway.

i did ask TK if my command input was fine but to no response. If it isnt doing anything then I’ll be annoyed because TK has been ignoring that question. Again though I don’t fully know one way or another but I’m hoping that my actions haven’t been pointless at the very least.

 

[Xivii]

Why do you think Z25 is scum outside of his role claiming issues?

Three reasons,

1. It's not so much the issue with the description as it is the inconsistency in his interpretation. He's agreed to three different interpretations now and has failed to verify which is actually correct.

Interpretation 1: Initial interpretation that anything that happens to his first choice happens to his second choice.

That’s weird because the phrasing of it doesn’t add up to that in my pm. At least I don’t believe so.

my idea behind it was that scum would likely target maven because he kind of pissed people off. I choose doop as a guess on who could be scum so that they would also be taken out if they as scum killed maven

Interpretation 2: How a bus driver actually functions, anything that happens to either player happens to the other.

Lol I’m sorry but also your welcome.

it wasn’t anything personal just something I thought was possible. I’m glad it at least helped though. This sells me on you being town now so it’s good to have pretty much confirmation on stuff like that.

Interpretation 3: Anything that either player does targets the other.

This seems to be a likely option after all the discussions surrounding it

I thought we were, unless I’m missing something?
If your referring to Doops claim, then my claim it would imply that mavens action( because again I listed him first) affected Doops actions, that’s your idea so far correct?

Doop is insisting that it’s none of these things however but he won’t clarify what exactly affected his action other then the fact he said it wasn’t my skill.

This is the conclusion you had right? Unless again I’m missing something. It’s late here so maybe I misread, but I’m not sure I entirely know what your referring to atm

Z25 which of these is the correct interpretation of how your role works? If you do not know, why haven't you verified with Tk how it works?

You stated yesterDay that Interpretation 3 was likely, but today you've used Interpretation 1 here:

Red to Pythag.

Pythags statement on utopian being bait I found really intriguing upon his flip. In reviewing pythag and utopian posts, I thought Pythag could be fellow scum as newbie or not there were definitely flags for utopian that I feel Pythag should have given more heed to.

I thought for being a big leader in targeting Utopian, red could be a potential target so o was trying to stop that

And Interpretation 2 here:

We literally established yesterday did we not that my bus skill likely saved you because I had wanted you as the target of actions, but I messed my ordering up. I’ve posted the exact statement of my role in this thread multiple times and every person has a different interpretation of it.

2. His choice of Ryu as a save target. He reasoned that Ryu was strong in pushing UP, but this is not the case: Ruy wavered on the wagon and didn't even vote UP in the end. In fact, I had the opposite interpretation. Of the people interacting around the UP wagon, Ryu looks the most suspicious. So Z25's reasoning for his action is not valid. And if there is anyone he should have protected, it is Doop since he believes that Doop is confirmed.

3. His interactions with UP that I posted here.

 

[Z25]

Three reasons,

1. It's not so much the issue with the description as it is the inconsistency in his interpretation. He's agreed to three different interpretations now and has failed to verify which is actually correct. It was late here when I wrote that first post and I had already been up to 3am this past week dealing with irl stuff. So yes I’m a sleep deprived mindset my wording

Interpretation 1: Initial interpretation that anything that happens to his first choice happens to his second choice.


Interpretation 2: How a bus driver actually functions, anything that happens to either player happens to the other.


Interpretation 3: Anything that either player does targets the other.



Z25 which of these is the correct interpretation of how your role works? If you do not know, why haven't you verified with Tk how it works?

You stated yesterDay that Interpretation 3 was likely, but today you've used Interpretation 1 here:
And Interpretation 2 here:



2. His choice of Ryu as a save target. He reasoned that Ryu was strong in pushing UP, but this is not the case: Ruy wavered on the wagon and didn't even vote UP in the end. In fact, I had the opposite interpretation. Of the people interacting around the UP wagon, Ryu looks the most suspicious. So Z25's reasoning for his action is not valid. And if there is anyone he should have protected, it is Doop since he believes that Doop is confirmed.

3. His interactions with UP that I posted here.

First off I never stuck to one idea as hard fact.

I literally mentioned how you and everyone else kept giving me different answers. Hence why in my last post I clarified I did check with TK and wrote word for word how it works.

secondly I already told you this last week was hell irl and I mixed my statements around. Pythag was the second target that I intended to try and save if they were being targeted by wrong actions. My words were very backwards and garbage I’m not going to say they weren’t. But it was a genuine mistake and I meant my post where I broke down my actions reasoning to be the other way around.

 

[Xivii]

Can you pose those three interpretations to Tk and ask him to identify, by number, which is correct?

 

[Z25]

Can you pose those three interpretations to Tk and ask him to identify, by number, which is correct?

Sure I’ll see what they say and let you know.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I currently do.

GLG and RR have..i dunno, strange interactions with UP in my opinion?

Page 2 of this game has an interaction between UP and GLG that just doesn't seem to feel...organic? Knowing now that UP has flipped godfather, this interaction between the two of them has pinged me.

UP and GLG don't interact with each other again until :

(WRT Maven wanting to lynch Tom)


UP liked this post

UP then comments on RR's scumslip.



is this UP trying to save a teammate here?


GLG later posts :


First mention I believe of GLG wanting to lynch UP. He hasn't made much discussion about it, it looks like he's just signaling, while his vote is safely on someone else that the town is finding scummy.

Now looking at EoD yesterDay, GLG is actually the last vote on UP. I believe there was a majority before that, but he's on it. Is it too little too late? idk

YesterDay ends with Xivii convincing RR to consider the UP wagon, he jumps off of Raxxel, but doesn't put a vote on anyone else. (I know it looks like it in the final vote tally, but I believe that's incorrect, becuase I can't find him putting a vote back on anyone else)

#HBC | Red Ryu Do you still want to lynch Raxxel? Do you think UP and Rax were both scum?



Looking at this again, I'm more convinced that Xivii is playing strong town.
He's making good arguments. He was also the first to bring up that UP tried to hammer Rax sneaky like.


I also think that Kevin's death is supposed to 'lead' us to lynching Rax, since Rax was Kevin's most hated slot. I don't think both UP and Rax were scum though.

Rax
Doop
Xivii

Z25
RR
GLG

I think between the three of them, Z25, RR and GLG is where a scummer is.

I don't think GLG's position on UP's wagon really does much for him, as there was little activity, I don't think there was going to be any great shifting of the wagon to Rax, Xivii kinda made UP look pretty bad. Why not just hop on the wagon at the last minute.
I think his interactions with UP D1 were strange, and he also didn't vote UP, but said he was willing, which would be a very safe statement, since both of them were in hot water. When push came to shove though he only voted UP at like the last possible chance to.

Given UP's flip, I see why he wasn't in a hurry.

vote GLG

T Theo , you were on the UP wagon early. Who are you voting for toDay?

I'm not for a raxxel lynch because of hour UP was ready to just end him. Also feeling the slot is more likely town.

I'm not convinced it was a bus given how UP posted yesterday.

I doubt Xivii is with UP given his push to get him lynched. Right move would have been to keep it on Raxxel as scum.

Kevin kill is weird,

I'm down to lynch Z25, what is he at?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Also considering seeing myself lynched would help with many things currently in play. otherwise I see myself being a liability and might need to use my role now than later.

 

[Pythag]

I'm waffling on if I'm ok putting my vote on z25.

I know we wanna lynch...what within 3 days?

I'm not seeing what you're seeing exactly, BUT

Z25 flipping town makes me look at doop and xivii I think.
Z25 flipping scum...what, ends the game or something?

so that's just got me hmmmm-ing right now

 

[Dooplissity]

If we assume Xivii's info is accurate, we have just over 24 hours here.

Z25 scumflip doesn't end the game because Theo exists. It might make it so Town losing is impossible, if we're lucky, but it definitely doesn't end the game.

 

[Xivii]

Pythag was the second target that I intended to try and save if they were being targeted by wrong actions. My words were very backwards and garbage I’m not going to say they weren’t. But it was a genuine mistake and I meant my post where I broke down my actions reasoning to be the other way around.

I've been thinking about this and it's not believable that this is the case. You reiterated your read in multiple posts after. And you specifically used the line that pythag said UP was lynch bait. Only pythag has said this. Ryu has not. So there's no way you mixed up your reasoning.

Z25 flipping scum...what, ends the game or something?

The game will be over because there's either two mafia or I'll know who the last scum is (see below).

Also considering seeing myself lynched would help with many things currently in play. otherwise, I see myself being a liability and might need to use my role now than later.

Are you really a day vig? If so, I'd recommend using it on pythag (or Z). One of my abilities is getting flavor bits about the people I visit. If you look at the flavor of the night kill it mentions a scythe. Last night I visited you and received that exact same wording, a figure holding a scythe. So, depending on how Z's bus driver role actually works, one of you and pythag killed Kevin.

 

[Pythag]

Are you really a day vig? If so, I'd recommend using it on pythag (or Z). One of my abilities is getting flavor bits about the people I visit. If you look at the flavor of the night kill it mentions a scythe. Last night I visited you and received that exact same wording, a figure holding a scythe. So, depending on how Z's bus driver role actually works, one of you and pythag killed Kevin.

Wait, you visited Ryu, saw there was a figure holding a scythe there? Or that Ryu was holding a scythe?

If it's the former, would that imply that Ryu was targeted?

 

[Xivii]

It's a flacker (flavor tracker) so I get info on what the person I track. So if Z is telling the truth, it has to be you. If Z is lying, then it's Ryu.

 

[Xivii]

does*

 

[Pythag]

It's a flacker (flavor tracker) so I get info on what the person I track. So if Z is telling the truth, it has to be you. If Z is lying, then it's Ryu.

Makes sense. Except you didn't answer, was Ryu the figure holding the scythe, or was a figure present there?

KevinM - Daroach (Game Rules) <Kirby> was hit by a Scythe?!

Deadline is in ?. Day 3 begins now. (Mostly) global roleblock occured. The rule <Hitchhiker's guide to save a life> is now in effect.

Do you think this (mostly) global roleblock has affected anything?

 

[Xivii]

I did answer the question, my result is about the person not who targeted them.

And not I wasn't (and can't be) RBed.

 

[Pythag]

I did answer the question, my result is about the person not who targeted them.

And not I wasn't (and can't be) RBed.

Sorry, wasn't trying to be rude.

And I totally just had the penny drop. I was sitting here trying to figure out why you wouldn't be going for Red since you saw him with the scythe.

THEN I realized, if you targeted red, and we were swapped, you're looking at me.
Thus bringing me back up to speed. And I get what's going on now.

Yeah, I didn't kill anyone.

unvote
Vote z25


Can I ask who else you've tracked?

 

[Z25]

It's a flacker (flavor tracker) so I get info on what the person I track. So if Z is telling the truth, it has to be you. If Z is lying, then it's Ryu.

This is a very bold claim. If your honest, scum will target you for sure. There is also no way for this claim to be proved either.
If you lynch me and I’m town, your info could still in theory be wrong or a lie against Pythag.

this either hands mafia two free town kills( hell 3 if you count the night kill) or your actually right and they are the last scum.

however taking a chance on that is pretty risky and I’m not sure how much I’d want to trust this claim.
If there was a definitive way to prove your claim, then I could trust it, but right now your essentially telling town to lynch two people who could easily be townies. That’s not a very safe move imo.

That’s a lot to bring up to town and ask them to trust you on.

 

[Dooplissity]

Unvote

at work and can't track this atm

 

[giraffelasergun]

#HBC | Red Ryu Does your character have a scythe?

I believe Z is at two votes, I will make sure to vote for z25 before the 72 hour mark from day start, but also want to get clarity on how his role works.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

#HBC | Red Ryu Does your character have a scythe?

I believe Z is at two votes, I will make sure to vote for z25 before the 72 hour mark from day start, but also want to get clarity on how his role works.

Why you asking this?

 

[Xivii]

#HBC | Red Ryu read my post above (#587)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I've been thinking about this and it's not believable that this is the case. You reiterated your read in multiple posts after. And you specifically used the line that pythag said UP was lynch bait. Only pythag has said this. Ryu has not. So there's no way you mixed up your reasoning.

The game will be over because there's either two mafia or I'll know who the last scum is (see below).

Are you really a day vig? If so, I'd recommend using it on pythag (or Z). One of my abilities is getting flavor bits about the people I visit. If you look at the flavor of the night kill it mentions a scythe. Last night I visited you and received that exact same wording, a figure holding a scythe. So, depending on how Z's bus driver role actually works, one of you and pythag killed Kevin.

Ohh yeah no i don’t have a scythe.

I am a character from Phoenix Wright.

You want me to full claim? Lynching me might be better long term.

I’m an oracle or sorts and i’ll never be the target of a night kill.

 

[Raxxel]

Thirdkoopa Vote count please.