Video Critique Thread

[AntoPark]

So...I got to play eddy mexico.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP3r91WdCpM
critique please!

 

[Pi]

So...I got to play eddy mexico.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP3r91WdCpM
critique please!

it's pretty clear he doesn't know the matchup too well

you were catching him off guard a lot on the ground, tilts are really good, and he was WDing OoS a lot to counter your tilts, so the jabs to follow up worked nice

i was having pretty decent success spacing fairs vs. luigi's aerials, since it's a bit disjointed

your edgeguards need to be better, homing missiles are probably a good bet since his only means of horizontal movement is pretty much side B, it's probably best to force his jump, because he was getting back with that too often

bombs are nice to stop him from approaching from the ground

uhhh

also bair is fine to challenge his ****


idk i'm pretty inexperienced in the weegee matchup

 

[duals]

So...I got to play eddy mexico.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP3r91WdCpM
critique please!

only thing i could think of is being less obvious with the charge shot.

Maybe use it when he doesn't have a chance, like out of a throw or when recovering.

 

[AntoPark]

only thing i could think of is being less obvious with the charge shot.

Maybe use it when he doesn't have a chance, like out of a throw or when recovering.

Whenever I downthrew he went too high or didn't tech. :[[[[[
But yeah, I'll keep that in mind!
same for kniht!
thanks for the advice

 

[Pi]

me vs. zer0 's marth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qob6seiY6tE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdebusHAAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFMbw9dowUI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gMforHxRVU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpnsGME3rvw

me vs. TANK's falco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RU47PMf1nw




**** marth

falco's ok


K

In the marth matchup
I need more safe **** to do.
For the record, Ftilt is not safe. If you Ftilt his shield, he can fair you, when you get fair'd, it's tipper, and you'll go in the air, when you're in the air, well you know wtf happens when you're in the air.

I am still smashing on his shield a bit, from behind, because I feel that it's safe at least, as in, won't get punished. That's a conscious decision. In hindsight it would have been nice to get that grab, but if he jumps, just presses that x/y button, I'll get uptilted, fair'd, dair'd, something, anything which all puts me in the air, which leads to more you know what.

so yea

Basically this matchup sucks big fat hairy aids (no offense AIDS) infested monkey balls

But, it's totally winnable, let's discuss how;

I am looking for critiques here, because I use to **** this kid up and down, and now I'm winning about 35% of the time, and he's winning about 65% of the time (coincidence? no, ****ing gay *** matchup).

Theory craft here, anything you want to say say it, I'm gonna review these vids myself and try to find some **** I can do better a little later.

But ****...marth punishes SO hard, whereas we get like...a dtilt maybe, then a follow up, then you resume shielding.

 

[zDuck]

why don't you just use uptilt for edgeguarding? you always drop a bomb and i think it actually saves him a couple times

 

[Pi]

why don't you just use uptilt for edgeguarding? you always drop a bomb and i think it actually saves him a couple times

I'll try that , I spose it's habit to drop a bomb

the benefits from dropping bomb is that it provides a reliable spacing to edge guard

when he's just flat out recovering he can vary the distance from the stage he UB's

But if I drop a bomb, and that bomb hits him, he's going to have to recovery in the same path as the last time I dropped the bomb there, you kinda get it?

Also if he hits the bomb at the tip of his UB, and I Utilt him after, it's very difficult to tech, if possible at all, and guarantee's a Utilt hit instead of getting hit by his UB

I just realized I think that I lightshield edgehog from the right only, and on the left side I always try to edgeguard...
hm...

1 thing that I'm sure of though, to win the marth matchup reliably you need to get gimps.

that is certainly something I need to work on though, edgeguarding...
I need those kills...****


k

watched the #2 w/ a notepad open

this is what i got

should have CC'd, but could have gotten dair'd

shouldn't DJ, need to get back on the ground

****ed up ledgehop

get back to the ground

**** nair

edgeguard better

stay off platform ****

**** fair

should have UB'd

nice grab, ****ty followup

****in ledgehop

dtilt not the best option but...w/e

B OoS...uh...idk

nice ftilt

nice waveland out of his throw

fair oos...bad timing for it

nice pressure, should have followed up

**** ystory

care with bombs...

bad nair, stay off platform, space a fair or something

marth ******** ****** >.>

chill w/ the jumpsp man **** stay on the ground

nice chase
edgeguard better

match 3

nice staying on the ground

nice grab

bad smash, nice jabs

nice ub

be mroe careful w/ grabs

nice dash attack, and jabs
don't approach w/ nair, bad

****ed up platform drop

don't nair when he's mobile

work that hugs ledgehop ****

dash attack when he goes airborne

nice nair oos

edgeguard better, grab the ledge

**** marth

act on his DJ

<3 shield poke

UB!!!!

that was an ok nair

nice spacing on dtilt

nice ff nair, retain ground position though ****

**** MARTH

lucky recov...

missed my jump...

drop a bomb on shield, then waveland
nice waveland

nice nair, again

platforms are bad, chase his jumps, get under him

messed up jab canceling

nice tricksies

EDGEGUARD BETTER ****

nice wd oos

bad spacing on bombs

nice grab, and ball

lucky *** gay tipper >.>

CC his fairs from platform, he doesn't dair

nice bomb, bad grabs, be safer

nairing when he's in shield is OK

he lands on platforms a lot, predict this

i'm juss doing this for my reference guys, sorry if it's spammy lol

 

[abcool]

Hugs gave some really nice tips for this matchup, but its all about mindgames. M2k taught him that samus and marth have two options in this fight. Marth has (shield and attack) and Samus has (Dash Attack and Grab) So he said utitlizing this and making the right decision changes this match around. Its on the matchup charts thread. He said its way more complicated, but he beat mango,g$ m2k and falcomist marth in friendlies since tp5 and never lost one match. He said he never played in tourney with them to find out if it works that well. So if u need help find hugs!!!

 

[Geist]

IB really helped me with this matchup, I'll throw some stuff out that I've learned.

I am still smashing on his shield a bit, from behind, because I feel that it's safe at least, as in, won't get punished. MMmmmmm maybe not the best option you have, unless you make sure to be careful around it. You should shield after an Fsmash, because he can reach you with a Bair OoS, which, for you, means you're in the air. I mean, he isn't in the greatest position to follow up, but you're in the air sooooo... I wouldn't tell Zer0 this.
Jab pressure works surprisingly well, if he tries to jump and you catch him, you can follow up with like a dtilt, and if he doesn't jump...
In hindsight it would have been nice to get that grab, but if he jumps...this becomes a lot more accessible.

But ****...marth punishes SO hard, whereas we get like...a dtilt maybe, then a follow up, then you resume shielding.
yeah this probably explains my biggest problems in the matchup, not to mention he needs to work much less than you to get those punishes.

the benefits from dropping bomb is that it provides a reliable

spacing to edge guard

when he's just flat out recovering he can vary the distance from the stage he UB's

But if I drop a bomb, and that bomb hits him, he's going to have to recovery in the same path as the last time I dropped the bomb there, you kinda get it?
This usually only works if they don't have their jumps though, and only if they recover low. SideB and fair chops through bombs, and it gets really hard to land the Utilt if the Marth doesn't panic and sweetspots it anyway.
Fortunately, if they do try to sweetspot again, you can totally drop nair for great justice.


Also if he hits the bomb at the tip of his UB, and I Utilt him after, it's very difficult to tech, if possible at all, and guarantee's a Utilt hit instead of getting hit by his UB

1 thing that I'm sure of though, to win the marth matchup reliably you need to get gimps.

that is certainly something I need to work on though, edgeguarding...
I need those kills...****
I'd emphasize this. Gimps are Samus's best friend against marth, and they get easy once you figure exactly how far away from the stage you can get.
PROTIP: very far.

plus what Abcool said is very true.

 

[Pi]

tru tru

yea, i knew dash attack was ****ing important in this matchup for sure
but grab....sigh

**** you samus, have a better grab

i'll try utilting more, and stop bombing so much, or just drop down nair, or something, you can bet your *** i'm gonna go for gimps now,

and yea i know, smashing on shields was never something i recommended, but **** me if i wasn't out of options lol


i have had my DA's caught by a pre-emptive fair, or just a random fair though, it's ****ing demoralizing.

oh **** i juss had an epiphany

usually if i ever try to go out and nair him, he just has his jump and goes low like a *****
sec i'll link exactly what he does cause it's in a match...
here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdebusHAAk#t=3m02s

he just goes below me
so i juss thought
what if i go out there, and if he goes below me, i'll juss drop a bomb (and have my second jump)
orrrrr i juss though
if he goes below me, under my nair (which i'll throw out really early), i'll just DJ back toward the stage, and nair again, cause he'll have to come back up

 

[Geist]

lmao or you could not go so far out and ff the nair. I usually see HugS reverse wd off the stage into a Nair, and that works really well.

Try not to overcomplicate things with Marth lol

 

[Pi]

lmao or you could not go so far out and ff the nair. I usually see HugS reverse wd off the stage into a Nair, and that works really well.

Try not to overcomplicate things with Marth lol

yea yea

i'll try the waveland thing too, it was suggested to me but i'm so use to bombing, and it works out some of the time, guess i was focusing on other things

 

[Violence]

I think the only reason that attack failed, is that you didn't cover the vital angle that Marth needs to get back.

Marth only avoided you because you left a path to the edge open. This, I believe is a product of you hopping to nair him. Whenever I watch vids, I never see Samus hop to edgeguard a marth/sheik.

If you picture an imaginary Marth up Bing to the edge ideally to the sweet spot, you just need to aim for that line in order to force a hit in that scenario.

Also, if you don't have enough time to dash dance ->wavedash off the edge to nair, you can still just run off and nair. It's a simple edgeguard, but I've found it works really well. You can go ridiculously low on most stages.

 

[Pi]

I think the only reason that attack failed, is that you didn't cover the vital angle that Marth needs to get back.

Marth only avoided you because you left a path to the edge open. This, I believe is a product of you hopping to nair him. Whenever I watch vids, I never see Samus hop to edgeguard a marth/sheik.

If you picture an imaginary Marth up Bing to the edge ideally to the sweet spot, you just need to aim for that line in order to force a hit in that scenario.

Also, if you don't have enough time to dash dance ->wavedash off the edge to nair, you can still just run off and nair. It's a simple edgeguard, but I've found it works really well. You can go ridiculously low on most stages.

i feel ya, i've actually had success just running off and nairing if he comes in too high, but usually he goes very low with his second jump in hand, and then UB's, which is countered by drop down nair i suppose

also

i tried to edgeguard m2k with just uptilt (no bomb), it's very hard to space that thing...
if you space it perfectly to not get hit by the UB when they hug the wall, they can avoid it by not hugging the wall
and if you commit to hitting them when they don't hug the wall, obviously you're gonna get hit

i need to lightshield edgeguard more...
it's by far the most reliable

 

[Alukard]

i feel ya, i've actually had success just running off and nairing if he comes in too high, but usually he goes very low with his second jump in hand, and then UB's, which is countered by drop down nair i suppose

also

i tried to edgeguard m2k with just uptilt (no bomb), it's very hard to space that thing...
if you space it perfectly to not get hit by the UB when they hug the wall, they can avoid it by not hugging the wall
and if you commit to hitting them when they don't hug the wall, obviously you're gonna get hit

i need to lightshield edgeguard more...
it's by far the most reliable

YOU HAVE TO GET INTO habit for that light shield edge guard because samus can't remember last second like the rest of the cast and get it off ... because her roll sucks balls ... u have to do it FAST! LOL

but yea i need to do the same ... i wasn't playing too hot vs m2k last time we played and i usually **** his marf wit sami

 

[DarrellD]

I wonder what would be the quickest way to set up for the light shield trick. Run to the ledge, turn around, roll backwards, angle shield?

That sounds like two missiles and a spaced uptilt to me lol

 

[Geist]

I dash and stop right before the edge, so my dash is cancelled, then I just turn around. That's probably the fastest way.

I always hesitate to punish if they UpB past you though, Dair seems too slow, and nair has no follow ups :[

 

[Pi]

I wonder what would be the quickest way to set up for the light shield trick. Run to the ledge, turn around, roll backwards, angle shield?

That sounds like two missiles and a spaced uptilt to me lol

missiles for what, they are below the stage
and Utilt is unreliable

just run toward the edge and roll
you don't have to turn around, your forward roll always turns you around

 

[Violence]

I was wondering, if you don't have the time to set up light shield edgeguard, if you can instead set up a forward facing light shield, and when it's hit by the Up B, you fast fall nair them away from the edge instead of grabbing it yourself.

Since I'm pretty sure super wavedash stops you before you can fall off of a grabable ledge, can't you just dash into wavedash until you're at the very edge, and then hold light shield? That sounds much faster and more reliable than taking the time to roll as Samus.

 

[Geist]

It's honestly just as effective to grab the ledge and refresh invincibility, and roll up the ledge when you hear "TWAH".

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

or you can do my grapple thing that no one seems to care about lol

also
i reckon the nair thing would be risky in general

 

[duals]

Ive seen darrell against falcomist and he naired off the ledge onto the stage and wavedashed back to ledge and rolled onto the stage...

i thought that was pretty effective

 

[Geist]

or you can do my grapple thing that no one seems to care about lol

Wait, what grapple thing?
Are you talking about sweetspotting the grapple and just letting it hang there until he comes close, then snatch the edge?

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

i'm not sure what you mean
if you mean the thing where you airdodge next to the ledge and stay in your airdodge til the last possible second, then sweetspot grapple, then yes

i have done it on at least 2 marths succesfully

it's tricky though
and i'm not even sure if it works if they sweetspot, but i think the two i did it too were sweetspotting
i could be wrong though

 

[Violence]

After some testing, I'm pretty sure walk off nair only works for certain trajectories.

I'm going to try grab ledge, then drop off nair when Marth gets under me. I'm pretty sure he'll die no matter what, and I think Marth Up Bing vertically into someone hits them upwards. I'd still have doublejump grapple up B, so I think I'd be fine.

 

[Geist]

i'm not sure what you mean
if you mean the thing where you airdodge next to the ledge and stay in your airdodge til the last possible second, then sweetspot grapple, then yes

i have done it on at least 2 marths succesfully

it's tricky though
and i'm not even sure if it works if they sweetspot, but i think the two i did it too were sweetspotting
i could be wrong though

That's close to what I was thinking.
I usually do something similar to characters with horizontal recoveries. I grapple the edge but don't pull myself up. I hang there until they get close to the edge, then I pull myself up. Don't think it would be too safe against Marth though.

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

yeah if you do that against marth you're at risk to get hit by his up-B and probably gimped/stage spiked lol

 

[DarrellD]

Just stay on the ledge and refresh your invincibility frames. Edge guarding marth is more about being comfortable with being on the ledge when marth does his UpB.

 

[Pi]

Just stay on the ledge and refresh your invincibility frames. Edge guarding marth is more about being comfortable with being on the ledge when marth does his UpB.

Yea
problem is
I'm not lol
stage spikes are scary

 

[abcool]

Hey. I know this is more for like single matches and so on, but i need tips for doubles and i wanna know if i am playing samus the way she suppose to operate in teams. I also wanna know how u handle double peach..seems to screw me over alot!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-Y52ydWJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T1xr7l6IJ0

 

[Geist]

Play doubles Peach like you'd play singles peach, but with more charge beam, because it's doubles.

I'll critique them tomorrow morning when I'm not about to pass out.

 

[Geist]

EDIT: Ooops, totally didn't mean to double post >_>


Kso, before I get into the doubles part, just a few pointers:

- Missile cancel closer to the ground (kinda relevant to Stadium match, I think it was because of the platforms).
- Fastfall after aerials or after dropping from platforms.
- Work on recovery, as in sweetspot screw attack, recover lower, etc.

As for doubles, you're going to watch out for your teammate before you shoot missiles. You hit your poor Marth buddy more than you hit Peach. He'll have to watch for your missiles as well, but think of them as Samus's responsibility.

And finally, as for Peach, keep in mind CCing is totally fine, as long as you can call on when Peach wants to get that Dsmash. It's doubles, so naturally spacing/whatevs will be a bit off, so I won't bother with that. Generally tilts work safely as a poke against Peach.
I like keeping my distance of about a little smidgeon over 1 ftilt away, so if she tries any of her shinanigans to try to approach you, you can shut her up. Luckily she's slow on the ground and the air, and even though she has stupid priority, she has no range. Pretty much, play safe, and play gay.


Also, I LOLed when that Peach's shield broke and no one noticed xD

 

[duals]

yeah. If my mate is in front of me, i tend to not fire projectiles.

 

[abcool]

Let me explain. This was winner's finals and we played again in loser's. My partner had no exp vs peach so usually they would kill him and force him to borrow and come for me. So i took control and didn't have any regard for his life really lol. watch the vid over and see how many he actually killed. I wanted to know if it is safe to be aggresive when you have a partner that is getting *****. Random missiles was to hit him out of the **** really lol. If i have more competent partners i tend to hang in the back and do chip damage.

Edit: I did notice her shield break, but i had to hold off the peach i was dealing with first because she like to play leader of the pack and attack whoever go after her partner, so when i got a chance i MC to fsmash....

 

[Geist]

I got a few friendlies recorded with a friend the other day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3bMjOvbEFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyGGOizGpJ0

@Abcool, JPOBS was at the smashfest I was at yesterday, we had a few matches, and he was telling me about you. He's a pretty cool guy lol

 

[abcool]

Oh yea lol. jpobs. He doesn't know the matchup too well. How did the matches go? That is how most ppl are in the bahamas.

 

[zDuck]

Winner's Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7v-yHWKgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR7b8fJ-__A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxd91AVOX_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=479HW2tfojk
Grand Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5l9nlYgsf0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHMg9tSjLdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ygEjAwxYI

I'm getting closer to beating this puff, critique + advice would be appreciated. If you don't feel like watching samus vs. puff i understand

 

[Geist]

Oh yea lol. jpobs. He doesn't know the matchup too well. How did the matches go? That is how most ppl are in the bahamas.

Pretty much dead even. Every match came down to last hit lol.
I was so happy vs his Falco, I was like, 'no lasers, I actually get to play my character :'D'
I wanted to get matches recorded with him but I didn't get the chance.

Winner's Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7v-yHWKgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR7b8fJ-__A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxd91AVOX_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=479HW2tfojk
Grand Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5l9nlYgsf0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHMg9tSjLdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ygEjAwxYI

I'm getting closer to beating this puff, critique + advice would be appreciated. If you don't feel like watching samus vs. puff i understand

Oh dear lord, they're ALL vs Puff.
I might do 1 or 2 later. For now, Utilt.

 

[abcool]

Well because of the other campy falco i showed you and you being even with him, he is going to spam lasers when he gets back. JPOBS likes to do crap in friendlies, but in tournament he becomes a different person lol.

I would also like to thank blowtoes and kniht for helping me become a better samus player. I played against that campy falco and i won most of the matches after you guys told me to ftilt when he spams lasers close up. I take alot of damage, but because i can edgeguard so well, it makes up for it. Now he runs for ganon and **** do i hate that matchup. He loves to DJ fair and bair. So now i need advice on ganon lmao. Not to much, because it pretty even, but he always gets that last hit.

 

[Geist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7v-yHWKgw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5l9nlYgsf0

Picking these two matches at random.
omg loooooooooooooool shield break.

You have a really nice Samus zDuck.
I abhore, and I mean, absolutely DESPISE grabbing in this matchup. You can get punished so easily, and the risk reward factor is too high imo. Dthrow can combo into charge beam however, and the Jiggs you were playing shielded a lot. I dunno :/ I still wouldn't recommend it lol
In the first match you had good useage of charge beam. I remember reading that Samus has a frame advantage if Jiggs shields a full charge beam, but I can't remember for sure.
I'm surprised more people don't take more advantage of UpB in this matchup. Screw attack will send a Jiggs up high enough that it makes it impossible for her to punish. In general it should punish poor spacing on Jiggs' part.
Alot of Samus's moves can be rested OoS. I don't have a list or anything, but I'm almost positive Fsmash can be. Dash attack isn't a good idea, and I think I remember hearing Dtilt and Dsmash are unsafe with poor spacing. Just a tip.
For the most part, play it safe and keep grounded and poke.

I would also like to thank blowtoes and kniht for helping me become a better samus player. I played against that campy falco and i won most of the matches after you guys told me to ftilt when he spams lasers close up. I take alot of damage, but because i can edgeguard so well, it makes up for it. Now he runs for ganon and **** do i hate that matchup. He loves to DJ fair and bair. So now i need advice on ganon lmao. Not to much, because it pretty even, but he always gets that last hit.

:3 No problem
Ganon is a bad matchup, not going to lie. The trick is to be able to get inside and outside his range quickly, and punish his laggy moves as hard as you can.
Not to toot my own horn, but the first video I linked in my above post shows how I personally handle Ganons that like their double jumps.

As soon as he gets off the edge the stock should be over. Utilt beats Ganon's crappy sweetspot everytime, and from that point all you have to do is call him if he recovers high with a Nair.