Vertical Endurance Test in Training Mode.

[supersmash43]

I found that surprisingly only Captain Falcon, Falco, and Fox can survive Mewtwo's up-throw at 140% on Final Destination. I used Mewtwo's up-throw on Bowser, Ganondorf, and DK, but none of them were able to survive it at 140% on Final Destination (after trying DK, I didn't try any other characters since I knew they all had worse vertical endurance than him aside from Falco, C Falcon, and Fox). As a conclusion, C. Falcon, Fox, and Falco would have the best vertical endurance in the game

EDIT: There was no DI applied to this test because I tested this on Standing CPUs in Training Mode on Final Destination. I upped the damage to 150% and up-throwed Falco, Fox, and Falcon and they STILL managed to survive (they started getting KO by it anywhere from 152-155%). That's without DI btw!

 

[Biglard]

The speed your character is thrown at vertically only depends on its falling speed. The weight affects the horizontal speed they fly at. Fox, Falco and Falcon having the greatest falling speeds, they are subsequently harder to kill by the top.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Weight doesn't affect anything for throws. Horizontal throws are also completely unaffected by weight.

 

[StretchNutz]

mind = blown

 

[supersmash43]

Weight doesn't affect anything for throws. Horizontal throws are also completely unaffected by weight.

So it is only affected by falling speed? Apparently that seems to be the case. But I guess this rule doesn't apply to non-grab knock-back scaling attacks?

mind = blown

Guessing that's sarcastic!

 

[Beat!]

It probably was, yes.

 

[FoxLisk]

weight does affect something for throws: how soon after starting the throw the throwing character can act again.

 

[Zankoku]

Okay, for quick clarification, weight (which can also be called "resistance", for the people who can't wrap their minds around the fact that weight doesn't affect falling speed whatsoever) reduces all initial knockback by a set amount, as well as affecting the speed of a throw (you'll notice throws take notably longer on heavier characters). Falling speed (or "gravity") reduces your upward velocity if you happened to get launched upward, but this is normal because falling speed also makes you fall faster if you happen to be in the air.

 

[EPsilon933]

Some old notes I still have

Percentage before NTSC Fox's fully charged up smash (no stale moves and DI) that kills them on Final Destination


Jiglypuff: 31%
Mr. Game & Watch: 35%
Kirby: 38%
Pichu: 39%
Mewtwo: 42%
Zelda: 43%
Peach: 44%
Ice Climbers: 45% (tested on one Ice Climber)
Pikachu: 45%
Luigi: 48%
Ness: 49%
Marth: 50%
Samus: 50%
Doctor Mario: 50%
Mario: 50%
Young Link: 50%
Sheik: 52%
Roy: 53%
Fox: 56%
Yoshi: 56%
Link: 57%
Ganondorf: 58%
Bowser: 60%
Falco: 61%
Donkey Kong: 64%
Captain Falcon: 68%


This might not be a good way to measure vertical KO resistance so there may be some degree of inaccuracy. Someone else has probably measured this better, right?

 

[supersmash43]

Just curious. Do moves stale in knock back on Training Mode? Yeah Fox's up smash is very powerful, but it doesn't purely knock the opponent upwards unless they are hit at a particular angle. That makes it not necessarily the best test for vertical endurance. Maybe Link's up-tilt or up-smash is a better measurement tool because it consistently has vertical knockback. Falcon survives well over 150% from that attack on FD btw (even without DI because I again tested it on a Standing Target).

 

[Zankoku]

There is no way Fox's up smash, even fully charged, can KO Falcon at 68%.

 

[Bones0]

There is no way Fox's up smash, even fully charged, can KO Falcon at 68%.

With no DI, I bet it can.

Also, I think the % values are before the up smash.

Someone should test it with Falcon's stomp or something. I'm pretty sure that sends you straight up, but I'm not sure if spiking people on the ground changes what determines their knockback.

 

[Zankoku]

Charging a smash attack only increases the damage it deals (and only by sub-10% amounts) - the greater knockback observed is because knockback is calculated by the % that results afterward. Are you claiming that an increase of around 7% in damage can make Falcon die nearly 100% earlier than he would normally, even without DI?

 

[gghhh3]

There is no way Fox's up smash, even fully charged, can KO Falcon at 68%.

Just tested in training, it kills him.

23 damage, any less it won't kill.

 

[Bones0]

Charging a smash attack only increases the damage it deals (and only by sub-10% amounts) - the greater knockback observed is because knockback is calculated by the % that results afterward. Are you claiming that an increase of around 7% in damage can make Falcon die nearly 100% earlier than he would normally, even without DI?

I actually didn't know that... you sure? Just seems weird that it wouldn't increase knockback from the same %.

 

[4 Aces]

Y'know, we really need to like, Idk, start taking all of these awesome posts and putting them together in some giant collab thread. Seriously, good info all around. Just hate how after a while, threads start getting lost and same goes for the info in it.

 

[AXE 09]

You should look at the first part of this thread:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202382

That shows all Mewtwo Uthrow kill percentages on every character (thank you Taj).

 

[supersmash43]

There is no way Fox's up smash, even fully charged, can KO Falcon at 68%.

Charging a smash attack only increases the damage it deals (and only by sub-10% amounts) - the greater knockback observed is because knockback is calculated by the % that results afterward. Are you claiming that an increase of around 7% in damage can make Falcon die nearly 100% earlier than he would normally, even without DI?

Just tested in training, it kills him.

23 damage, any less it won't kill.

Ok I just made this video to PROVE this claim to be true! Here's the link (I don't know how to post Youtube links so that the link can be directly viewed on this forum, but here's the video I made where I verified your claim!).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5s3ihhzdxk

 

[AXE 09]

Charging a smash attack increases damage AND knockback.

It's not the same as a stale move vs an unstale move (which only increases damage, not knockback. But the knockback is still more cuz damage is calculated after the % is given. The knockback just isn't affected directly, like with a charged smash).

I hope my posts are helping lol

 

[MarsFool!]

Yeah whoever said charging smashes doesnt increase knockback is silly. Ever been hit with a charged tipper at a low % ? my oh my are you gonna go sideways...

 

[TheDekuNut]

i don't understand the fascination with this thread but hey its not bad knowing them percentages

 

[Zankoku]

Evidently I was wrong about the charged smashes. Sorry about that.

 

[Strong Badam]

Charging a smash attack only increases the damage it deals (and only by sub-10% amounts) - the greater knockback observed is because knockback is calculated by the % that results afterward. Are you claiming that an increase of around 7% in damage can make Falcon die nearly 100% earlier than he would normally, even without DI?

False. The charged smash damage is what is taken into account in the knockback formula; the knockback values themselves don't change and thus this is why a charged smash is stronger. Additionally, knockback is calculated based on the victim's % before the attack.

Also, Captain Falcon dies at 109% from a non-charged up-smash and 68% from a charged on.

"Vertical Endurance" is based on both weight and gravity. Each character has a gravity attribute that is "added" to their current falling speed (subtracts from upward velocity, adds to falling speed) each frame, and each character has a maximum falling velocity.
Captain Falcon's gravity attribute is 0.13, Donkey Kong's is 0.1, while Fox's is 0.23 and Falco's is 0.17. The reason Falco survives longer than Fox against upsmash is because he has a higher weight attribute, decreasing the initial knockback of the upsmash.

 

[Hydro_Smasher]

There is no way Fox's up smash, even fully charged, can KO Falcon at 68%.

wait. wat. I saw this video on youtube about some kid who was all like "omg it kills @ 68%" Is this the thread where it came from?

if so; lolz.

 

[Zankoku]

False. The charged smash damage is what is taken into account in the knockback formula; the knockback values themselves don't change and thus this is why a charged smash is stronger. Additionally, knockback is calculated based on the victim's % before the attack.

Yeah, I mixed up Brawl and Melee damage/knockback calculation mechanics. Now I feel embarassed, especially since early attempts at figuring out the Brawl knockback model was so difficult because calculation was reversed. :V

 

[Strong Badam]

The only difference in knockback calculation is that in Brawl, the staled damage is used for the knockback formula rather than the non-staled. None of this "damage after the move" stuff people try to say.

Though for whatever reason, projectiles in this game use staled damage. So Samus gets kinda shafted.

 

[Zankoku]

The only difference in knockback calculation is that in Brawl, the staled damage is used for the knockback formula rather than the non-staled. None of this "damage after the move" stuff people try to say.

Though for whatever reason, projectiles in this game use staled damage. So Samus gets kinda shafted.

Wait, can you provide source for where you found this?

 

[Bigfish]

Yeah, I mixed up Brawl and Melee damage/knockback calculation mechanics. Now I feel embarassed, especially since early attempts at figuring out the Brawl knockback model was so difficult because calculation was reversed. :V

Please don't bring brawl into a melee discussion thread. It is irritating for me and melee players everywhere

thanks..

 

[Prince_Abu]

Screw brawl we play melee!!!!!!!!

I got u bigfish!!!

 

[Bones0]

Kinglit plays Brawl.

 

[Beat!]

Kinglit... exists?

*checks youtube*

WTF

 

[Teczer0]

Wait, can you provide source for where you found this?

I remember Magus posted something about how projectiles stale similar to brawl but... I forgets from where.

*goes to look*

 

[Strong Badam]

Wait, can you provide source for where you found this?

Magus made the post in the Project M Back Room so yarr.

 

[Prince_Abu]

Kinglit plays Brawl.

He sucks at that too

 

[rhan]

Please don't bring brawl into a melee discussion thread. It is irritating for me and melee players everywhere

thanks..

Join date March 2011..

Screw brawl we play melee!!!!!!!!

I got u bigfish!!!

This guy posting right after and defending him in a direct post 7 minutes later.








Only could mean that Bigfish = Boardsmash.

Sherlock Homes status.

 

[Prince_Abu]

no one likes u rhan

 

[rhan]

Your mom likes me a lot.

Blocked your butt buddies post. <3

 

[Bigfish]

Your mom like me a lot.

Moderators can u ban this guy? He is being rude to fellow smashboarders.

 

[Prince_Abu]

rhan is being horribly offensiive to both me and my friend bigfish as well as to homosexuals everywhere with his "butt buddies" comment. Please permanently ban him. This is uncalled for.

 

[Bones0]

Prince_Abu has offended the gay portion of the Smash community by assuming being homosexual is an insult and something to be ashamed of. It's only a matter of time before he starts making racist comments towards smashers, as he has already PMed me that he hates Mew2King because he is "7 feet tall and approximately black."