v. 1.0.8 changes

[Skydra]

Mewtwo buff. Tracking on using attacks with his 2nd jump no longer whiff. This used to happen most of the time. Now I can chase with aerial attacks like we should have been from the start.

I know it isn't a placebo. Uair used to whiff all the time.

Bair as a ground attack is still garbage. Use it as strictly aerial chase games. Move comes out like half a second after you throw the move out.

Can anyone test this with the previous version?

 

[RayNoire]

Can someone test if we can true combo anything out of Confusion with the lower lift?

(Remember not to use Training mode)

 

[MagiusNecros]

Can anyone test this with the previous version?

I already updated both things but I'm pretty sure Uair would lolmiss on dbl jump.

It hits every time now.

Fair is still complete garbage with it's hitbox but I think we have gotten used to where it is.

----------------------

Confusion doesn't true combo. End of discussion. It sucks but it just doesn't.

 

[RayNoire]

Confusion doesn't true combo. End of discussion. It sucks but it just doesn't.

Doesn't seem outlandish to me that they might remove the disadvantage on hit, seeing as they were tweaking it anyway. Not to mention that the Battlefield change looks more like the side effect of something else than an intended nerf.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I really wish Confusion put our opponents in footstool state. Because they can't tech.

 

[HakuryuVision]

So...
Uair after second jump got "fixed" (hits better), and confusion lost its usefulness in battlefield (stages with floating platforms in general).

Gotta admit, i expected a little more. : (

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well they did do something with the ledges so maybe confusion got affected.

 

[Spirst]

Confusion still doesn't true combo into anything, no. The IASA still looks to be the same. I did the test with using Confusion on Sheik then having her use F-air and Mewtwo shield. Both post-patch and pre-patch, he can only barely just powershield. Had the patch given us true combos from Confusion, the IASA should be earlier and the shield should've came up sooner. It's the same -5 frame disadvantage.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Personally, all I care about is a patch to his weight. At least not make him lighter than f'ing Game & Watch. Make his weight something like 79, the same as Pikachu, and that would be good enough for me. I mean as we all know, Mewtwo should be a heavyweight if this supposed to be accurate. The argument of him being floaty is BS, because Samus is floaty and is one of the heaviest characters in the game. So fix his weight. I can deal with his other garbage, but him being that light just pisses me off and takes away the enjoyment of this character.

 

[godogod]

Personally, all I care about is a patch to his weight. At least not make him lighter than f'ing Game & Watch. Make his weight something like 79, the same as Pikachu, and that would be good enough for me. I mean as we all know, Mewtwo should be a heavyweight if this supposed to be accurate. The argument of him being floaty is BS, because Samus is floaty and is one of the heaviest characters in the game. So fix his weight. I can deal with his other garbage, but him being that light just pisses me off and takes away the enjoyment of this character.

85 from melee would be good enough. I can't even expect anything more at this point..

BTW, do we know The three DC character's speed and weight values? If so, what are they?

Thanks!

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

BTW, do we know The three DC character's speed and weight values? If so, what are they?

Thanks!

Lucas is 94, Roy is 95, and Ryu is 103. I don't see their speed values yet.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I guess since tracking is better maybe we can use our Dair spike more effectively?

 

[Spirst]

So something we may have missed. This is from the Patch Notes thread:

Double checked Mewtwo's frame data. I only found one change frame-wise.

N-air landing lag reduced: 19 -> 16

Apparently, N-air has a reduction by 3 frames on landing lag. Not amazing and certainly doesn't address the bigger issues with this character but any positive change is nice.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I will take it.

 

[RayNoire]

Yeah, it's something. Makes nair strings and crossup nairs on shield a little safer.

Is it worth losing the Battlefield trick in 2/3 of our matchups? Maybe not. But at least they acknowledged that Mewtwo needed a buff.

 

[Chiroz]

So something we may have missed. This is from the Patch Notes thread:



Apparently, N-air has a reduction by 3 frames on landing lag. Not amazing and certainly doesn't address the bigger issues with this character but any positive change is nice.

Yet Lucas N-Air seems to have a better hitbox, Lucas is smaller which leads to a smaller hurtbox too and has much less landing lag, I would dare say it's like below 3 frames. I don't know how that works.

Lucas is 94, Roy is 95, and Ryu is 103. I don't see their speed values yet.

Roy is the 3rd fastest in the air and 9th fastest in running speed, although his acceleration sucks for both air and ground speeds. His dash is amazing which is why you don't notice his acceleration being a problem but if you pivot on the ground or turn your momentum around in the air you'll notice just how slowly he accelerates. Lucas is really high up there in air speed but I think he's about average in run speed. I don't know about Ryu. Both Roy and Lucas walk "average" I believe.

 

[ZombieVito]

So something we may have missed. This is from the Patch Notes thread:



Apparently, N-air has a reduction by 3 frames on landing lag. Not amazing and certainly doesn't address the bigger issues with this character but any positive change is nice.

My god... Finally a buff..

 

[NekoJubei]

Could Mewtwo True combo into Fair when he shorthop NAir after receiving the landing lag into Fair in 1.0.7?

 

[Chiroz]

Could Mewtwo True combo into Fair when he shorthop NAir after receiving the landing lag into Fair in 1.0.7?

Without landing the last hit of N-Air? No he couldn't. N-Air wouldn't true combo into anything, the opponent had frame advantage. Are you sure it's a true combo?

 

[godogod]

Yet Lucas N-Air seems to have a better hitbox, Lucas is smaller which leads to a smaller hurtbox too and has much less landing lag, I would dare say it's like below 3 frames. I don't know how that works.




Roy is the 3rd fastest in the air and 9th fastest in running speed, although his acceleration sucks for both air and ground speeds. His dash is amazing which is why you don't notice his acceleration being a problem but if you pivot on the ground or turn your momentum around in the air you'll notice just how slowly he accelerates. Lucas is really high up there in air speed but I think he's about average in run speed. I don't know about Ryu. Both Roy and Lucas walk "average" I believe.

AS fast as metanight? damn..
Not only stronger now, but heavier AND faster than Marth? sheesh.

 

[Chiroz]

AS fast as metanight? damn..
Not only stronger now, but heavier AND faster than Marth? sheesh.

Faster than MK, slower than Charizard .

 

[godogod]

What does Marth have over Roy now, besides range?

 

[Karsticles]

Damn, those three Nair frames have made a huge difference. In 1.0.7, only a handful of characters couldn't punish a well-spaced SH Nair. Now, it seems like it is quote a few more. I am getting away with more than I used to.

I one instance, it seemed like I could chain SH Nair into SH Nair, but I didn't follow through on it.

I would be fine with Confusion never propping people on platforms. It is just too good and a little silly. I would rather us get a little frame advantage on Confusion. Enough to consistently link into Utilt, maybe. I don't like how scared I have to be after Confusion right now, and how blocking is often the only safe choice. :/

What does Marth have over Roy now, besides range?

Tippers. Marth gets those crazy 50% kills sometimes. He is also much safer than Roy.

 

[Chiroz]

What does Marth have over Roy now, besides range?

Marth's aerials got buffed, so he also has faster aerials.

I heard his jab now sends in a completely different angle which allows for true combos but that last part might be speculation (like at the beginning people though Mewtwo's D-Throw true comboed).



Aside from that Marth is still technically more powerful in the sourspot and the sweetspot, his sweetspot is just much harder to land. Plus Marth's gameplay synergizes perfectly with the objective of the game, which is to play effectively.

What I mean is Marth's game is all about being safe and spacing yourself which goes hand in hand with this games engine. Roy is all about being in your opponents face, and his properties help him achieve this but this overall gameplay is not what you want to be doing unless you want to get punished.

Contrary to Melee though, Roy's sourspots are actually good in this game, they deal great damage and are overall decent so Roy can still play a great spacing and safe play without feeling like he is hindered by his gimmick.



Technically Marth will always be trying to land tippers, he will always be playing towards his gimmick. Roy should also be playing towards landing tippers, he should be playing safe looking for an opening to go in and apply pressure, basically playing against his gimmick (until an opportunity arises).



Playing Marth is all about zoning and precision, playing Roy is more about pressure and maximizing opportunities.

 

[Karsticles]

Pre-1.0.8, we could SH Nair and fast fall it to end early to put an opponent in front of us, and we had some frame advantage there (I think, right?). With Nair getting a recovery buff, can we get more out of that?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Might be worth looking into unless the land reduction only applies to the end of the move.

 

[Chiroz]

Pre-1.0.8, we could SH Nair and fast fall it to end early to put an opponent in front of us, and we had some frame advantage there (I think, right?). With Nair getting a recovery buff, can we get more out of that?

The opponent had frame advantage before, but surprising him with the move could lead into a grab or tilt if your opponent didn't react quickly enough. It could be tested to see if we now have frame advantage ourselves, but with 16 frames of lag I doubt it.

 

[Karsticles]

The opponent had frame advantage before, but surprising him with the move could lead into a grab or tilt if your opponent didn't react quickly enough. It could be tested to see if we now have frame advantage ourselves, but with 16 frames of lag I doubt it.

Really?

I thought that video showed that the opponent only had time to shield or roll.

 

[Chiroz]

Really?

I thought that video showed that the opponent only had time to shield or roll.

Or jab or grab themselves (depends on character). I mean D-Tilt, Grab and Jab are all 6 frames so it is possible that Mewtwo actually had some +1/2 frame advantage but no more than that. I still believe that it was the opponent who had frame advantage, specially since our jab is so slow that any other person that's not Ganon can jab us in the face.

 

[pikazz]

why they said that NAir gives the opponent only Shield or Spotdodge is because the opponent will have their back to you.
no tilts or jab (except for WFT) do attack from behind so mewtwo do have the upperhand!

 

[GanonPawnch]

why they said that NAir gives the opponent only Shield or Spotdodge is because the opponent will have their back to you.
no tilts or jab (except for WFT) do attack from behind so mewtwo do have the upperhand!

Then F-tilt behind you...? That N-air fast fall thing is good but I never understood how they cannot F-tilt you lol. Especially if you've set tilts to your c-stick like me, just flick the stick in their direction.

 

[godogod]

Then F-tilt behind you...? That N-air fast fall thing is good but I never understood how they cannot F-tilt you lol. Especially if you've set tilts to your c-stick like me, just flick the stick in their direction.

You can set tilts to c stick? Oh ****..O_o

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Oh great, apparently Mewtwo has a new nerf from the latest patch too: Up smash's initial hitbox is significantly smaller now, making it harder to hit opponents, especially those on the ground.

And I thought we were actually making progress

Oh and apparently Confusion got nerfed too because of universal changes to the game.

So what's next? How about we make his weight 67 so he is even lighter than Jigglypuff now, or let's significantly decrease forward air's knockback and make its hitbox smaller. lol

 

[MagiusNecros]

Don't worry. Next patch teleport will just auto kill you.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Don't worry. Next patch teleport will just auto kill you.

I'm just expecting the worst at this point.

 

[Chiroz]

Oh great, apparently Mewtwo has a new nerf from the latest patch too: Up smash's initial hitbox is significantly smaller now, making it harder to hit opponents, especially those on the ground.

And I thought we were actually making progress

Oh and apparently Confusion got nerfed too because of universal changes to the game.

So what's next? How about we make his weight 67 so he is even lighter than Jigglypuff now, or let's significantly decrease forward air's knockback and make its hitbox smaller. lol

Is his hitbox really smaller? It was always small enough where it would sometimes miss Kirby/Pikachu/etc.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

Is his hitbox really smaller? It was always small enough where it would sometimes miss Kirby/Pikachu/etc.

The initial hitbox size went from 6.2 to 3.0, so it was cut by more than half the original value.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Is his hitbox really smaller? It was always small enough where it would sometimes miss Kirby/Pikachu/etc.

What happens is if it hits off the ground it only gets one weak hit in and doesn't draw them up into the vortex anymore. Or misses completely.

MORE FREE PUNISHES.

 

[RoyIsOurBoy_TTG]

I honestly think Mewtwo has to be one of the worst characters in the game now, if he wasn't already

 

[MagiusNecros]

I honestly think Mewtwo has to be one of the worst characters in the game now, if he wasn't already

Nah man that's Zelda.