Uwoooah ! Lucario Matchup Thread

[Poilu]

So I've been looking for a Lucario MU thread but haven't seen an official one.

Feel free to discuss it and make your own Lucario's MU list.
I've already posted mine on another thread, so I will just C/C it here

Spoiler

Char : 1 (instead of 0)
I can't say I don't know this MU. Like, 90% of all the games I've played are against chard since it's Zen who introduced me to the game and thus we played together a lot. I'm not found of playing online but still, I live in a different city than him, so I played him thanks to netplay, but almost with no one else. I also played a lot against Zefklop so I could discover another playstyle than Zen's.
With all this experience, I feel like we have the MU but not by far. Charizard's weight and Floatiness and size makes us all the easier to combo him. I can 0 to death Zen even though he knows the MU and the DIes and he is a pretty good player, on the other hand, it's true that he outranges me and in term of spacing, it's really hard to do anything thus the MU only a little on Lucario's favor.

DK : 2 (Instead of 1)
Well, DK isn't that bad, but he's a heavy character (no joke) and huge too. He just gets comboed day and night and has a weak recovery on top of that. He does outrange Lucario and can counter attack but it is not enough IMO. I don't have that much experience against DK, I've only played against TreK in that matter but it gave me a glimpse. When I see TreK play his DK against other opponents he seems to struggle quite less and to be able to do a lot more things.

GnW : -1 (-2 ?) (Instead of naught)
GnW is a pretty good character, almost no lag, comboes all day, good recovery ... It is pretty hard to attack him and even harder to combo him properly as he enjoyes smashing you to the face all day. I feel like my options are very limited and his aren't. He is mobile, he outranges Lucario, can kill at low % and survive quite long ... Well, I really don't feel at an advantage against him due to all that.

Ganon : 2 (Instead of naught)
See DK. I have yet to play against other Ganons than Rikkel's (And I mean Players who main Ganon, coz as TreK always says : "Everyone has a Ganon. It's just seldome ones main") but I feel we have the MU for the same reasons as we have the MU for DK.

Ivy : 1 (Instead of -3, which is a joke I hope)
Well, TreK and I often play each other and I read his previous posts, I think we feel the same about the MU. Ivy is hard to approach, has a decent spam that counters Lucario's, but in term of speed, priority, killing potential he lacks ressources. Overall, a favorable Match up for Lucario I'd say.

Marth : -3 (Instead of naught)
I don't think other Lucario players will say the same for that. It might be just because I lack experience against this character. Eitherway, Marth clearly has the MU. He can combo easily, one mistake and here comes the Ken combo and the death at 32% (Trust me, I've been there before) he outranges, has a hellish floatiness that prevents him from being comboed, he doesn't care about being spamed ... i don't know that much Marth player so this -3 might be too soon to say, but currently, it is how I feel about this hellish MU

Snake : 1 ( Instead of 0)
Another MU I have played often in tournament. Snakes has some options to do stuff, but he gets so much hit that his godlike recovery doesn't find that much uses in this MU. He still can do pretty well, thanks to his neutral B and all, and he can still kill Lucario pretty easily, but lose a little do to being killed quickly. It's not tremendous either, so a 1 is fair I guess.


For all the others MU I lack of knowledge to say anything and I will let my fellow Lucario players speak theirs feelings

 

[Misuse]

While I applaud the effort to start this, I feel like your/our reasoning behind match ups should be more based around the tools that characters have against is rather than, "I lose to this guy a lot and this guy I play a lot and he does this."

I.e on your ivysaur post, you noted how you played 1 ivysaur and seemingly beat him often- however you neglected to mention how easily ivy can gimp lucario with backairs and his great zoning ability.

With DK his grab combos can do a lot of destruction and can pack quite a punch. Moves like his forward tilt and down tilt out range all of lucarios approaches and can potentially knock down for combo follows. While DK is combo fodder for lucario, lucario is the same for DK, and more easily gimp able with things like DKs n-air.

All I ask is that we put more thought into the theory as to why the matchup is the way it is rather than just who we play against. This is a good start and a noble idea but it needs refining!

Good start!

 

[Poilu]

I agree, and the MU I proposed can be changed a lot with some discussions. The DK and Ivy player (which is the same guy) knows the MU and I feel we have tools to counter both those characters, we outrange them (Except for the Ivy Bair which is avoidable and a huge commitment for Ivy to pull out) giving a little advantage for Lucario in my opinion. Don't hesitate to give your own idea of the MU too, I think it would be 0 for both of those characters for you ?

 

[Misuse]

I guess I don't agree that bair is a big commitment on ivy's part- if it's SHFFLd it's actually super quick and hard to punish. Also if they can force you out with razor leaf even though aura sphere beats it, it's considerably slower and not safe to throw out. Overall I would rate the ivy matchup -1 for lucario. Due to ivy's ability to wall out with disjoints and his projectile as well as massive gimp potential. While he is an easy combo weight, most of the cast is too. Making it a non-outstanding factor.

I would recommend watching IPK vs Machiavellie (or however you spell that) to see a little bit of what I mean

For DK I can't say. Some aspects are +1 for luc and some are -1, I would probably rate it a 0 as well. It really all depends on the skill level. At top level play I'd probably give it to lucario +1 or +2

 

[Poilu]

I've watched IPK vs Machiavellie (during the LTC and another tournament earlier this year) but it seemed to me that :

1- IPK seldome plays the MU, because there are some counter strategies that can make Ivy's life hard. If Ivy uses his side B for example, you can down B through it and attack him before he can reacts with some reaction (or Mindgame) without even using an aura

2- Machavellie seldome plays the MU too. Since some easy edgeguardes were missed and many DIes seemed off.

I might be wrong, but it was how I feld overall.

For DK, I think like you but I feel we have a stronger "+1" or even a "+2" for those reasons.

 

[AkashSky]

Do you think you could format it into a collumn or something? That way its easier to find the character you wanna see.

Game and watch is probably -1 at worst for lucario. GW ground game with crouch cancels beats alot of your approaches, but you can go for a fair=> side B if they are trying to crouch cancel you all day.

Essentially, you have tools to change up your attacks from the air to approach and start strings.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

How do you guys feel about his Spacie MUs?

 

[Misuse]

For the spacey matchup if they're not high level it's in lucarios favor, if they're technical then it's in their favor

 

[Podoboo]

How do you guys feel about his Spacie MUs?

Very rough. Lucario can combo them to hell and back but they destroy him in the neutral.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

Roughly even you might say? Slightly in their advantage?

 

[Poilu]

In their advantage. Against good spacies, the combos are very hard and they outrange Lucario and can kill him easily. I have not the experience to put a number though

 

[Gooch]

At top level Spacies win the **** out of neutral, everyone can combo spacies to death so thats not really an issue.

But at lower to mid i think lucario wins.

 

[Gooch]

I wanna hear your opinions on the Samus MU, ive heard a lot of people say its hard, but I played against one in bracket for the first time and won. He seemed like he knew the character pretty well. But i dont know anything about it, so i wanna know what the matchup looks like at top level.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Samus wrecks Lucario booty.

In neutral their down-tilt outprioritizes yours and does what Lucario's does (set-ups for a follow-up) even better. Samus can pressure with missles, and they can catch Double Team with their down-smash. Also, Samus is floaty, and weighs a ****-ton. You won't be comboing a Samus that knows how to DI.

Up-B out of shield? Forget about it.

 

[Akkien]

Samus is at least -2. They have an answer for pretty much everything so this matchup is definitely in their favor; It's a perfectly winnable matchup but they have all the advantage. Powershielding/Double Team can get you some breath time against missiles (I say this because I play against a Samus with a very tight platform+missile game), but they still have time to stuff your approaches in between missiles. Most Samus players have patterns for missile canceling, it's very important that you pay attention to it. Samus is also hard if not impossible to combo: vertical combos work sometimes but you'll need to save aura to cancel Extremespeed if you intend to kill with Nair/Uair off the top or just to follow their DI. UpSmash OoS + JC follow ups are one of Lucario's most valuable tools here I'd say. I also tend to crossup > U-tilt directly into Extremespeed Cancel when I see fit.

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

How's the MU vs Roy and Ike?

 

[Sir Noon]

Preface: I suck, don't add these to the MU chart unless not sucky people agree.

Spoiler

Marth: -2: If you don't respect Marth and his sword you're going to have a bad time. Marth meta is so advanced already thanks to melee that he'll outspace you, tipper you, dair you and combo you until you want to hang it up. A crispy Marth is terrifying. Completely agree with Poilu that it's a hard matchup but I think -3 is excessive. -2 if you play to punish (I mean that's basically what lucario is supposed to do anyways)

Roy: -1: is almost as deadly and prickly as Marth. You don't have to fear the dair guarding against ES as much as you would for Marth and that is a huge improvement. Plus he falls a bit faster and is a bit lighter than Marth so you can actually combo him somewhat.

Ike: 0: With some creative DI and patience you can avoid most of "Ike Things" (Helicopter, Fabulous Flying Fair, Silly ledge quick draw strats) and punish him pretty hard. You can carry him as easily as Snake and is hilarious to gimp with Aura Sphere spam when he's trying to recover.

(All the Fire Emblem characters it seems their counter is a quick way to slash your momentum but other than Roy's are not very intimidating. A small aura sphere inside and after an Aura Bomb is good mixup if they keep counting your spheres to keep you out. Small one takes the counter and the large one is slow enough that it finishes the job)

Fox/ Falco: -2: They'll wreck you if they know your tricks (Aura charges, OHC, ASC, randy aura bombs). The melee mains who ride their 20XX to victory can be stuffed with some chain grabs till mid percent on FD, or some true combos on something with platforms. Their neutral is not something you can easily contest. Bait responses with aura spheres and DT like your life depends on it. Start a combo though and you can 0 to death with some decent consistency.

Wolf: 1: He can combo you with those gorgeous carries and disjointed hitboxes but his straight forward recovery, ridiculous fall speed and decent size make him one of the easiest non fatties to combo in the game. I'll play this matchup all day. Fun and (almost) fair.

Bowser: 2: He's huge, easy to carry, combo and gimp but he's got a lot of weight and CC which limits your kill options not in combo. He can ledge guard you well enough with side-b or just sustained Fire Breath (hilariously enough) since you'll almost always recover low as Lucario and it stays out like 10 minutes. Also Koopa Claw can grab you out of DT now so there's that...

DDD: 2: Almost as easy to combo as Bowser but has much better recovery and will hit you hard if you aren't absolutely perfect on your own recovery. It might even be a 1. Never had an easy time against him but I just assume it's my playstyle.

Charizard: 1: My gut says 0 but my heart says 1. I never thought it was particularly favored to either side given Charizard's hard to guard against recovery and strong moves countering his bulkiness. I say 1 because any charizard I've played against has enjoyed the matchup much less than I have

Jigglypuff: 0: If you can handle puff in melee, you can handle it in PM. If you can't, I hope you like 4 stocks.

Zelda: -2: My last six tournament loses have been to 6 different Zeldas. I'll try to not be too biased. It's a hard matchup for Lucario. Zelda is at a hard to combo weight with a really good spacing projectile and amazing aerials. You don't want to be above Zelda in really any circumstances and bair/ fair will kill ES. Your only option is to be dangerously close to zelda where she can trap you between Nayru's Love and Din's Fire. At least a Charged Force Palm kills at like 90% on most stages. With good shielding you can beat out Din's if she has a tendency to detonate early or late but she has too many things to shut you down for it to be an easy match. Good luck.

Samus: -2: Zelda but with more projectiles. Samus will strategically cut off all your options until the only one remaining is death. You're usually a bit safer up close than you would be with Zelda now that Fire Up-Smash isn't all powerful and all knowing anymore. Powershield often and it'll feel like a -1.

Falcon: 0: While falcon can kill you with some tech chases, stomps and knee to knee to knee combos, he is countered by good DI, short hopped aura spheres, and grounded force palm to set up the combo (dash -> FP is nearly guaranteed until like 50% and can be continued until the edge of the stage). Two momentum characters with style.

Mario: -2: Before the fireball/ pill nerf this was a -3 for sure. The spam could leave you completely helpless. Now at least you can put up a fighting chance before a cape sends your ES completely back off stage. His haymaker will make you cry and aerial priority isn't something to laugh at either. *angrily shakes fist into air*

Snake: 1: Snake combos easily and his recovery is easy enough to read with his tall body that AFP becomes viable, not just stylish. As long as you can pressure him enough to keep C4s and landmines at a minimum you should only have a super hard time when you start getting stuck 8 times a stock. Short hop to ignore tranq.

Ice Climbers: 2: Nana is fodder for you. Since you have two bodies to hit, you gain Aura ridiculously fast and can afford to be frivolous with it. Separate the two with down tilt or nair or DTC -> down smash and finish off Nana with a ledge hog or really cheesey Aura Bomb at ledge. Game over Sopo. Don't get grabbed and you shouldn't be at risk.

 

[WimzicalStranger]

I'd like to hear as much Falco mu knowledge as you guys have to offer. I recently got my butt kicked in tourney by a Falco and i really couldn't do anything.

 

[Misuse]

For the Falco matchup it's very volatile but it is definitely in falco's favor. Lasers can stuff approaches and are amazing for him in neutral, CC shine will stop your combos every time and down tilt + down air will f*** you up every time.

For lucarios options against falco there are a few things I personally do. I like to stick to platforms and try and get the pattern of the players lasers and shines , on most DI's dash attack to force palm works twice on 0%.
Again depending on DI I choose to convert stay hits I get into d smash or d smash, these are good tools for getting falco off stage and capitalizing on his awful recovery. Spirit bomb is also awesome in this matchup, knock falco offstage and it's almost a habit for most players to Insta illusion, or try to sweet spot illusion. Spirit bomb covers both these options and even if you're late the start up hit boxes will normally carry them into it. F-air off stage is also a super valuable tool, get the correct hotbox on a falco recovery and the stock is gone.
If you can't seem to finish the stock at high percents, up throw nair is really good too!
Hope this helps
Falco wins this matchup 70-30 IMO (at high level)

 

[Szion]

Falco and Link. Get away from me with those characters e_e

 

[Misuse]

Falco and Link. Get away from me with those characters e_e

I already posted my little falco tips, but I also play(ed) a lot of links too!

For the spam heavy link you really need to be on point with your movement and spacing. If you can slightly out space his boomerang and run In as it returns you should force link into a few options.

Be aware of when link likes to grab and when he likes to Up B. If you do get grabbed by the infamous down throw to up b combo you should DI the THROW ITSELF out and up. As soon as you're about to come into links range switch your DI to IN and UP. You will get hit by the weakest hit boxes of the move and DI them well.
Watch out for links second hit on his f-air. It's deadly.
There's a lot more so if anyone is interested just ask below

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Preface: I suck, don't add these to the MU chart unless not sucky people agree.

Spoiler

Marth: -2: If you don't respect Marth and his sword you're going to have a bad time. Marth meta is so advanced already thanks to melee that he'll outspace you, tipper you, dair you and combo you until you want to hang it up. A crispy Marth is terrifying. Completely agree with Poilu that it's a hard matchup but I think -3 is excessive. -2 if you play to punish (I mean that's basically what lucario is supposed to do anyways)

Roy: -1: is almost as deadly and prickly as Marth. You don't have to fear the dair guarding against ES as much as you would for Marth and that is a huge improvement. Plus he falls a bit faster and is a bit lighter than Marth so you can actually combo him somewhat.

Ike: 0: With some creative DI and patience you can avoid most of "Ike Things" (Helicopter, Fabulous Flying Fair, Silly ledge quick draw strats) and punish him pretty hard. You can carry him as easily as Snake and is hilarious to gimp with Aura Sphere spam when he's trying to recover.

(All the Fire Emblem characters it seems their counter is a quick way to slash your momentum but other than Roy's are not very intimidating. A small aura sphere inside and after an Aura Bomb is good mixup if they keep counting your spheres to keep you out. Small one takes the counter and the large one is slow enough that it finishes the job)

Fox/ Falco: -2: They'll wreck you if they know your tricks (Aura charges, OHC, ASC, randy aura bombs). The melee mains who ride their 20XX to victory can be stuffed with some chain grabs till mid percent on FD, or some true combos on something with platforms. Their neutral is not something you can easily contest. Bait responses with aura spheres and DT like your life depends on it. Start a combo though and you can 0 to death with some decent consistency.

Wolf: 1: He can combo you with those gorgeous carries and disjointed hitboxes but his straight forward recovery, ridiculous fall speed and decent size make him one of the easiest non fatties to combo in the game. I'll play this matchup all day. Fun and (almost) fair.

Bowser: 2: He's huge, easy to carry, combo and gimp but he's got a lot of weight and CC which limits your kill options not in combo. He can ledge guard you well enough with side-b or just sustained Fire Breath (hilariously enough) since you'll almost always recover low as Lucario and it stays out like 10 minutes. Also Koopa Claw can grab you out of DT now so there's that...

DDD: 2: Almost as easy to combo as Bowser but has much better recovery and will hit you hard if you aren't absolutely perfect on your own recovery. It might even be a 1. Never had an easy time against him but I just assume it's my playstyle.

Charizard: 1: My gut says 0 but my heart says 1. I never thought it was particularly favored to either side given Charizard's hard to guard against recovery and strong moves countering his bulkiness. I say 1 because any charizard I've played against has enjoyed the matchup much less than I have

Jigglypuff: 0: If you can handle puff in melee, you can handle it in PM. If you can't, I hope you like 4 stocks.

Zelda: -2: My last six tournament loses have been to 6 different Zeldas. I'll try to not be too biased. It's a hard matchup for Lucario. Zelda is at a hard to combo weight with a really good spacing projectile and amazing aerials. You don't want to be above Zelda in really any circumstances and bair/ fair will kill ES. Your only option is to be dangerously close to zelda where she can trap you between Nayru's Love and Din's Fire. At least a Charged Force Palm kills at like 90% on most stages. With good shielding you can beat out Din's if she has a tendency to detonate early or late but she has too many things to shut you down for it to be an easy match. Good luck.

Samus: -2: Zelda but with more projectiles. Samus will strategically cut off all your options until the only one remaining is death. You're usually a bit safer up close than you would be with Zelda now that Fire Up-Smash isn't all powerful and all knowing anymore. Powershield often and it'll feel like a -1.

Falcon: 0: While falcon can kill you with some tech chases, stomps and knee to knee to knee combos, he is countered by good DI, short hopped aura spheres, and grounded force palm to set up the combo (dash -> FP is nearly guaranteed until like 50% and can be continued until the edge of the stage). Two momentum characters with style.

Mario: -2: Before the fireball/ pill nerf this was a -3 for sure. The spam could leave you completely helpless. Now at least you can put up a fighting chance before a cape sends your ES completely back off stage. His haymaker will make you cry and aerial priority isn't something to laugh at either. *angrily shakes fist into air*

Snake: 1: Snake combos easily and his recovery is easy enough to read with his tall body that AFP becomes viable, not just stylish. As long as you can pressure him enough to keep C4s and landmines at a minimum you should only have a super hard time when you start getting stuck 8 times a stock. Short hop to ignore tranq.

Ice Climbers: 2: Nana is fodder for you. Since you have two bodies to hit, you gain Aura ridiculously fast and can afford to be frivolous with it. Separate the two with down tilt or nair or DTC -> down smash and finish off Nana with a ledge hog or really cheesey Aura Bomb at ledge. Game over Sopo. Don't get grabbed and you shouldn't be at risk.

Hitting both the ICs doesn't give you double aura. If you hit only popo or nana,it will still give you normal charge amount, but if you hit both, it only counts for hitting one character. This applies to all characters. Lucario receives the percent that specific move deals (minus staling and what not), not the actual attack. If you go to training mode and set the CPU amount to 2, you can Dsmash them at the same time and you will notice that you won't get an aura till they reach 50%, same goes for ICs.

 

[Sir Noon]

Hitting both the ICs doesn't give you double aura. If you hit only popo or nana,it will still give you normal charge amount, but if you hit both, it only counts for hitting one character. This applies to all characters. Lucario receives the percent that specific move deals (minus staling and what not), not the actual attack. If you go to training mode and set the CPU amount to 2, you can Dsmash them at the same time and you will notice that you won't get an aura till they reach 50%, same goes for ICs.

Sorry. Didn't know that.
Even without the extra aura my opinion of the matchup still stands.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Sorry. Didn't know that.
Even without the extra aura my opinion of the matchup still stands.

I have never played a competent IC player, but I'm guessing it would be super easy to keep them separated as you can still cancel off of both of them.

 

[CND]

I am scrubby Lucario main and definitely not experienced enough in many matchups to make a good MU chart, but here is my assement of Lucario's matchup spread as well as the community mu spread for comparison. I used the tier list maker to hopefully make it a little more visually accessible.For my matchup chart, I tried to organize it from worst to best, so the further left a character is the worse the matchup is in respect to its tier (Luigi is worst matchup) and the further a character is to the right, the better the matchup is (Dedede being the best matchup).

Spoiler: Personal Opinion On Lucario's Matchup Spread

Spoiler: Lucario's Matchup Spread From Community Matchup Chart

I can try to justify the some of the character's placement if wanted.

 

[Kneato]

Matchup from 's Perspective (+3 has Lucario winning)

+3:
+2:
+1:
0:
-1:
-2:
-3:

?:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.

 

[CND]

Matchup from 's Perspective (+3 has Lucario winning)

+3:
+2:
+1:
0:
-1:
-2:
-3:

?:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?

This is for updating the (outdated) community matchup chart.

From a not at all reliable source. The following is merely my perception and not to be regarded as a representation of those of the character's player base:

I think Link is considered slightly in Lucario's favor and not +3. Link has one of if not the best combo weights for Lucario, but Link can defend himself with projectiles and ranged attacks and Lucario gets comboed well by Link. It seems like that Handsome Jack vs. (ItalianNinja?) set this idea that it is very much in Lucario's favor, but the discussions I've seem to say evenish.

I think Jigglypuff is definitely a losing matchup. Jigglypuff is very floaty and light so she is difficult to combo especially if she has a decent amount of percentage on her. Also, she spends a lot of the neutral in the air so grounded attacks (and the majority of Lucario's magic series combos) will be few and you have to bet on acting out of (typically) fair to approach and start combos which probably won't do well against Jigglypuff''s combos. Also, Jigglypuff can wreak havoc on Lucario's recovery. Also, it seems like Lucario is easy to setup into rest. Lucario has more movement options and mobility, and a projectile in his favor.

I also think Mewtwo is a losing matchup. Mewtwo is floaty which usually means difficult to combo but Mewtwo's weight and size make it much more manageable than other floaties. Mewtwo can outrange Lucario with his tail and Mewtwo is good off stage against Lucario. Also, hover cancel combos are cool and although I don't really understand them, I am sure Mewtwo can combo Lucario well. Mewtwo also has the potential for significantly better movement via significantly better vavedash and teleport shenanigans. Basically, Mewtwo outdoes Lucario at least slightly in many aspects with with the exceptions probably being speed, B-tech movement and combo game. I think Mewtwo could border between -1 and -2, but I would say -1 for now.

Also, I think Luigi and Samus should be - 3 and Marth should be -2. Marth is hard but I don't think Marth is as bad as Luigi and Samus. Marth has significantly better ground movement than Lucario and his range can make it difficult to land a hit and consequently start a combo. If Lucario can avoid Marth's forward smashes then it probably means either living for a good percentage or being put into edgeguard situations. Although Marth can edgeguard Lucario decently, Marth can not go very far off stage and his aerials require a bit of commitment so Lucario has more opportunities to utilize his recovery mix-ups. Lucario needs to avoid getting forced offstage and try to take advantage of Marth's deficiency in kill moves. If Lucario can land a hit, Marth is decent to combo and Lucario can try to get him off stage with fair strings to hopefully land an early kill. Also, I don't know how it compares in range to Marth's moves, but smart use of Lucario's forward smash can really help in this matchup. Lucario still loses this matchup hard, because of Marth's mobility and range, but if Lucario actually gets a hit possibly by means of forward smash or pressuring with aura spheres or something, Lucario will probably have much greater success converting into a kill. I would probably give this -2.

I think Samus is -3, but iPunchKidsz has had good performances against Samus, so maybe -2 is reasonable. Essentially, Samus destroys what suggestion of a neutral Lucario has with projectile spam. Lucario can destroy missiles with fair, but Lucario really has to pick out which one he is going to destroy because it might be followed up by more missiles or by charge shot or zair. If Lucario actually manages to get a hit, Samus is really floaty so she is hard to combo. She is also really heavy so Lucario's combos will be applicable at later percentages (unlike Luigi and Jigglypuff), but she is consequently really hard to kill without taking into consideration her recovery. Also, Samus's nair comes out quite fast, so she can break out of combos well. A chaotic neutral game against a character that is both difficult to combo and hard to kill is definitely not a pleasant experience. I guess Lucario has the combo game advantage, but that's about it.

Luigi is a terrible thing. Basically Luigi is the most difficult character to combo, so Lucario basically has the central aspect of his character removed. Luigi is floaty and light which makes him difficult to combo especially with percentage on him (a recurring theme). Luigi's ultimate advantage is his nair. It comes out on something on like frame three or four which makes the A button the break combo button. I would write more about it but it's too depressing. So, Luigi has the advantage of being really difficult to combo with an anti-combo nair, being difficult to hit on the ground thanks to his wavedash, and a decent combo game on Lucario, while Lucario hopes to put damage on with fair -> ASC -> aerial combos and one or two move combos. -3.

Peach is probably a losing matchup. She kind of difficult to combo and her turnips can make neutral difficult, but since they are items I guess they should not be as bad as projectiles if the Lucario player is good at the item game. The thing that bothers me the most in this matchup is accidentally crouch cancelling Peach's down smash. Down tilt is really good at trying to poke the opponent, one of Lucario's better options in neutral, and it is probably Lucario's most reliable kill setup, so it's very tempting to use down tilt quite a bit. Against Peach using down tilt could accidentally get around 50% on you, so you have to be very careful about using down tilt. I would say maybe -2 for Peach although - 1 could be reasonable.

ROB is also a losing matchup (sounding way too negative). ROB has a weird neutral with booster stuff, gyro stuff, and laser. Kind of like Mewtwo, ROB is on the floaty side, but his weight and size make him easier to combo than other floaty characters, but he can also live to ridiculous percentages. ROB's gyro, laser, booster stuff, and his tilts all make landing a hit on ROB very difficult. I would say -2.

I think Lucario wins against Lucario, but I don't have personal experience in the matchup or able to recall watching a Lucario vs. Yoshi set. I think Lucario has a much easier time in neutral against Yoshi than a lot of characters and Lucario's side-b is effective against Yoshi's double jump when Yoshi is trying to recover. Yoshi can also combo Lucario well and has easier time approaching with his djc aerials than Lucario. I would guess +2 at the moment.

Also, here is what I have so far for Lucario's matchup spread (updated from the previous post). I tried to organize so the left most character is the worst matchup of that tier and the right is the best matchup of that tier.