Utilt KO Percents

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

As I did for the Falco boards, this is for Snake's Utilt. The percentages listed below is the percent that a fresh-Utilt-strongspot must be activated at to kill a character factoring the best DI and momentum cancel possible. And all of this was done on Smashville which shares a common ceiling height with virtually all the legal stages in the 2.0 Unity Ruleset.

King Dedede: 143%
Link: 138%
Snake: 137%
Captain Falcon: 135%
Donkey Kong: 134%
Ganon: 130%
Ike: 129%
Bowser: 128%
Wario: 123%
Charizard: 121%
Yoshi: 119%
Robotic Operating Buddy: 117%
Samus: 116%
Ivysaur: 116%
Lucario: 115%
Pit: 115%
Sonic: 115%
Diddy: 113%
Marth: 113%
Falco: 113%
Ness: 113%
Toon Link: 113%
Mario: 113%
Wolf: 113%
Luigi: 112%
Lucas: 112%
Pikahcu: 112%
Fox: 109%
Sheik: 107%
Ice Climbers: 107%
Olimar: 106%
Peach: 105%
Zero Suit Samus: 105%
Kirby: 103%
Meta Knight: 103%
Zelda: 101%
Squirtle: 99%
Game and Watch: 96%
Jigglypuff: 90%

Misc.
Wario dies to an Utilt or Uair from a grab release at...
Utilt: ~135%
Uair: ~125%

 

[Attila_]

thanks xeylode, this will most definitely come in handy.

i'm assuming these percentages are before the utilt connects, so their damage display at death will be higher.

most are still lower than i thought; i suppose i never keep utilt fresh.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

thanks xeylode, this will most definitely come in handy.

i'm assuming these percentages are before the utilt connects, so their damage display at death will be higher.

most are still lower than i thought; i suppose i never keep utilt fresh.

Yes, before the Utilt connects.

If you use Utilt at about 60%, they are suddenly at ~70%, 5 more attacks they are at 120% and you still have a partially decayed Utilt. Either you have to refrain from using Utilt at mid percents or really make sure you freshen-up when you can. Blowing up explosives, getting pummels in, using Jabs, etc.

I was surprised to find how much of a difference momentum canceling can make. Link with DI will lives 10% longer, but with the momentum cancel and DI he lives about 24% longer after the DI. On jiggs, MC only adds about 5% more to her lifespan.

 

[Flayl]

I love how you spelled out R.O.B.

Good job too



edit: I have a question: at what %s should Snake should check for bad DI? Let me explain:

If you UTilt before the kill %s in the OP, at what % will the second UTilt kill provided best DI and momentum cancel?

 

[zmx]

Yes, before the Utilt connects.

If you use Utilt at about 60%, they are suddenly at ~70%, 5 more attacks they are at 120% and you still have a partially decayed Utilt. Either you have to refrain from using Utilt at mid percents or really make sure you freshen-up when you can. Blowing up explosives, getting pummels in, using Jabs, etc.

I was surprised to find how much of a difference momentum canceling can make. Link with DI will lives 10% longer, but with the momentum cancel and DI he lives about 24% longer after the DI. On jiggs, MC only adds about 5% more to her lifespan.

Since Momentum Cancelling doesn't actually do anything by itself other than get you out of hitstun faster I'm going to assume you mean with MC+Fastfalling he lives 24% longer.

I'm a little skeptical about the King DDD percent. I believe I saw someone live a fresh one past that percent though it was on frigate.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@ZMX: I refer to the momentum cancel as anything that has to do with reducing momentum. So in this case, yes, I am referring ultimately to the aerial + fast fall combination. The lowest place in frigate I believe is after a rotation and the side platforms pop out from the side. Everywhere else should be closer to the ceiling than smashville. But that's off memory.

@Flayl: Hmm... Do you have a specific character you would like to know that on?

 

[Flayl]

I used to, but not really. How about doing King Dedede, Jigglypuff and Diddy and we can get a feeling from there?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Just finished.

If you use Utilt once before 137% against DDD and he survives, then using that 2nd Utilt directly after the first will not kill DDD given DI and fast falling an aerial.

Same result with jigglypuff. And again, same result with Diddy.

I think its pretty safe to say that using Utilt once, then using it again directly after the first Utilt is a bad idea. Utilt decays pretty badly after that first usage.

 

[Flayl]

Wow, didn't know decay was that huge. Thanks.

 

[Attila_]

While you're at it, can I make a request?

Grab release to dash attack on mk.

I'm never sure about when to do it, or when to dthrow when he's above 130%.

 

[zmx]

Yeah Utilt decays really fast. I remember utilting a falcon at like 130 with really good DI. He survived. I did like 5 consecutive utilts afterwords and believe it or not he survived all of them.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

So snake has a 21 frame advantage over MK from a grab release which is actually plenty of time to run over and make contact with the strong hit of dash attack. You can buffer a dash from the air release.

Anyway, the kill percentage depends on your distance from the blastzone and any smash DI metaknight manages to get in the air. I decided to test this on FD which has slightly larger sides than smashville or battlefield (better to overestimate than underestimate). With DI and momentum canceling, MK will die to the dash attack from the far side of the stage at ~160% (SDI does shortens or lengthens this by about a percent or two). ~139% is when MK will die to dash attack near the other ledge (same thing, SDI changes it by 1 or 2 percent). Again, this was with the strong hit. The weak one is so pitiful you won't kill him until about 200% with momentum canceling and DI.

 

[z00ted]

This is a really good thread.
Thank you.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This is a really good thread.
Thank you.

Not entirely sure how it helps someone who uses Marth and Peach though.
I guess you could watch out for attempts to kill you.

 

[Attila_]

So between 140 and 160? Thanks heaps.

Great job xeylode, very helpful. Seriously.

 

[Eleghor]

Great job #1, very useful **** here.

 

[smashkng]

LOL I already made a blog about the Utilt kill percents almost 2 years ago (and before the Utilt connects)
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=64858 It's pretty similar to this one, with just 1 or 2 % difference. It was even posted those kill percents in an old Snake guide thread LOL.

 

[Fuujin]

So between 140 and 160? Thanks heaps.

Great job xeylode, very helpful. Seriously.

what the fuuuuuu
why is Zelda the 4th lowest?

 

[Jrugs]

cuz jiggs is still a bad char.

 

[mikeray4]

This doesnt seem right

 

[1PokeMastr]

I feel I should add, you guys have a Boost Grab CG on Falco when he Air releases.

But, good Job, Xeylode!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

This doesnt seem right

What doesn't seem right? Speak up.

LOL I already made a blog about the Utilt kill percents almost 2 years ago (and before the Utilt connects)
http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=64858 It's pretty similar to this one, with just 1 or 2 % difference. It was even posted those kill percents in an old Snake guide thread LOL.

Do you recall which stage you did it on? I did this with the frame debug mode to be sure. I guess I could add on some other stuff to still make this thread worth still using. Might even recheck a couple to make sure I didn't skip a percent by mistake (squirtle dying one percent later from what you found?).

Anyway, sorry about that. I never saw the post you made on his Utilt stuff or in the guide. I found it after you said this. Surprised no one else spoke up about it though. I guess not many people ever bother looking through those things.

 

[smashkng]

It was in FD, but the upper screen of FD is about as high as in SV.

 

[False]

Pretty sure we have a boost grab on MK too.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Pretty sure we have a boost grab on MK too.

I take back the statement I had on that from before. I made the mistake of thinking UpB had intangibility on frame 1 (which its not) and was testing according to that. Something like jump or an aerial uair/nair I should have been testing on. Still not sure whether its guaranteed or not.

The thing with dash attack is still right since Snake gets to MK well before MK can even do anything. Boost grab, not so much. I need to look at it more, but dthrow is infinitely better anyway since air release stuff gets stuffed whenever there is a platform in the way on most stages.

 

[Attila_]

i remember susa saying that boost grab was possible, but it would always grab armour mk's nair, so you'd take more damage than it was worth. and that's assuming you managed to be frame perfect.

 

[smashkng]

Oh Xeylode. the Utilt kill percents I did was without any type of hacks. I just used a 1% dealing attack (I don't remember with who I did that ), Snake and the victim with % handicap and suicided every time I Utilted so it would refresh, repeating that a few times until I could be 99.9% sure of the kill percent.

 

[zmx]

I feel I should add, you guys have a Boost Grab CG on Falco when Air releases.

But, good Job, Xeylode!

I tested this out when you told me about it. My question now is why would you ever choose this option instead of tech chasing or something?

 

[Mike2]

Walk offs?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The grab release is old as heck...

It's amazing because you can grab release Falco to the edge on stages like FD and SV.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I tested this out when you told me about it. My question now is why would you ever choose this option instead of tech chasing or something?

I personally find tech chasing easier near the edge, but i've never tried out the grab release before. I'm not sure if it's worth the effort though.

 

[Kuro~]

It's why i always ban battlefield against falco instead of fd....battlefield gives him more recovery options and makes this thing harder. FD limits him to the edge.

One grab=20+% and AN ENTIRE FRESH MOVESET INCLUDING NADES+EDGEGUARD OPPORTUNITY

Op

 

[False]

Air releasing Falco into boost grab is amazing and underused because

1. Pummel percent slowly adds up
2. Moves get refreshed
3. Release to dthrow at edge serves as better tech chase opportunities and limits their options
4. Guaranteed follow ups such as dash attack or air release to landmine.

Only practical stage to do this on would be FD. Sv and BF platforms can get in the way.

We should also have ko percents with c4, bair, and ftilt.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

C4 percent I could agree with... sort of.

Bair and Ftilt not as much. They depend far too much on the location on the stage and make memorizing percents rather pointless and impractical. Not to mention that Ftilt is probably decayed as hell being an excellent damage producer.

 

[Attila_]

tbh itsv pretty rare for good players to get hit by c4...

knowing what percentages we can survive our c4 recovery without teching the stage would probably be more helpful...

 

[False]

Tbh Xeylode good players rarely get hit by ftilt. Shields used to be my bane now I wrack a majority of damage up with grabs abd grenades. Ftilt can kill fresh.

Bair is snakes most reliable aerial for a kill and it can be used for anti juggle sometimes as well as if you read an air dodge bait.

 

[Kuro~]

I highly disagree. It's the snake mains job to know how and when to hit with the c4. Doesn't matter the level of player. I can find plenty of vids where high level players get hit by c4.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

In the end, all those moves vary wildly on the location you hit them with on the stage and there are really no common scenarios that can be duplicated with ease for which percents would hold true most of the time.

Utilt makes sense for its a move that relies on hitting a grounded target (or close to the ground) and will have the same relative distance to the boundary of the stage no matter where you hit on the stage (barring a few counterpicks and if on platforms or not).

Sure, someone could go ahead and spend forever percent recording, but I have a lot of doubts on the usefulness of such a thing. Either you have too much data to memorize for every scenario you choose, or too specific that doesn't have much room for leeway and gets rarely used.

C4 to me was the only one that makes the most sense to try to get percents for because again, it would hit opponents low to the ground and have the same distance whether your left or right side of the stage. You'd rarely if ever hit someone with it, but the percents would hold fairly accurately for most scenarios.

 

[Kuro~]

Dtilt seems like it would make sense to do imo...most underrated move for snake. It'd be great to know when it kills as it has better range than uptilt.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Dtilt has more range horizontally, but far less disjoint and vertical range compared to Utilt. Its also a worse angle and far less powerful. It wouldn't kill until size-able percent later.

Are there any match-ups were using Utilt is actually really good other than killing? In the match-up against Peach, I believe against her float Utilt with either beat out completely (due to disjoint) or at worse trade with her aerials. In that sense, you might over use Utilt and resort to Dtilt for a KO move on the ground. lol I remember when people said to use Utilt to KO all of Olimar's pikmin on you and thus decaying it.