Uses of Ganon's new neutral B

[Super_Primid]

Ganon also is the only floater (peach, mew2,ganon) who can reverse and b reverse his float. His float also carries more momentum.

 

[GoldenFalchion]

After the jab reset from the cape, what would be some good options to kill? Would any smashes come out fast enough?

 

[Stalled]

Haven't checked any of this, but dtilt, ftilt, and wizkick would all probably work.

 

[CORY]

Or dash grab into whatever.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Just picked up 3.5. How useful is the float? I've only tested it after a jump to see how much it helped vertical recovery since I was kinda short on time, I didn't find it that useful aside from throwing off edgeguarders timing, but I'm not really used to it.

 

[zpxociv]

Why do faster characters like Peach and Mewtwo get special float treatment when Ganondorf doesn't? Why can't the cape be used in the air like it should because floating isn't just holding jump like with Mewtwo's? Needs a re-work and the cape should allow some forward movement so it's not just a crappy version of Mario's cape. This will help Ganon's slow-ass advance while dealing with spam. Ganon's still too predictable and could use something that moves him... backwards. Make the cape have movement control like plumber tornadoes where you can move slightly forward or backwards while doing it. This would help Ganon a lot against spammers and fast-movers.

 

[CORY]

Because they can't breverse their float/hover? Or are you asking why Ganon can:t float cancel and get +10 on shield aerials?

 

[Sovereign]

so it starts reflecting f3? does the hit also come out that fast? that's really awesome : o is this true for both air and ground? and how big is the... "reflect bubble", as it were? fully body or only on the arc in front of him or something?

I've managed to reflect projectiles with my back to them, and I've reflected projectiles at Ganon's feet, to give a better indication of when you can do it.


Edit: Ganon's reflect-box is his entire body. The hitbox is on his cape. It's in the GIF for his frame data and hitbox data.

 

[Super_Primid]

After the jab reset from the cape, what would be some good options to kill? Would any smashes come out fast enough?

F smash

 

[Zigludo]

B-reverse can be used as a pseudo DJC, or at least that's what it reminds me of. You can be running away one moment, and then coming back in with a dair the next. This is great for catching people off guard.

The only problem is... when is it ever in your advantage to run away as Ganondorf?

 

[CORY]

If you ever pull a stock lead : p

 

[Zigludo]

lol, it's just that I feel like all of Ganondorf's bad MUs (except Falcon) you still don't want to be far away because it's just free % for anyone with a decent projectile.

 

[CORY]

yeah, i was just being coy : p

but the momentum switching is useful in other respects, though. like, using it to pseudo airdash away from from an approach and then go into an aerial or something.

 

[GunBuster]

in regards to the Volley, I find the thing that got me is that the animation made it difficult to pin down the timing for the actual reflect. having seen the animation in game and then seeing the frame data afterwards, i was a bit surprised that it's so early in the animation (and decently sized, frames 3-18). I think it just needs some kind of cosmetic effect, in the same fashion of the fire emblem character's Counter's white flashing, or Bowser's red overlay for when his armor's active.

 

[CORY]

mostly i was thrown off because i figured the backhand did both the reflecting and hitting at first ><

 

[Z4K]

Excuse me if anyone's mentioned this already, but I didn't see anyone talk about it yet:

Because Ganon's float is a Special move, you can b-turnaround it, B-reverse it, and wavebounce it.

B-turnaround is great for getting those reverse up-airs off stage, setting up for a back air, or just plain spinning in the air.

B-reverse can be used as a pseudo DJC, or at least that's what it reminds me of. You can be running away one moment, and then coming back in with a dair the next. This is great for catching people off guard.

And of course wave bouncing can be used for tricky retreating aerials. Fake someone out with a wavebounced float, and then go in when they make a move. Or, use it like a b-reverese, and come back in with a back air.

Any other cool things these could be used for?

Can someone please make or link me a video that demonstrates these? I can do reverse, and a few times I've done one where I run in and b, but I'm moving back the way I came and facing the direction I was running, and I'm trying to replicate it. I'm currently looking up the difference between b-reverse, b-turnaround, and wavebouncing the B, but I will need an explanation of how that directly applies to Ganon's Dead Man's Volley. I learn better by demonstration and am hoping someone can show me.

edit: Found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nYWNayYVLo
And this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRoJ7P-KyQU

Explains wave bouncing, b-turnaround, and b-reverse, but I can't figure out for the life of me how these look on Ganondorf, nor can I recreate whichever one keeps me facing forward but moving backwards. I am having trouble with the timing.

So in sequence, what is the input for b-turnaround, b-reverse, and wave bouncing with neutral b?

Facing/running right: b <- -> <- is wave bounce? b <- is b-turnaround?

 

[Zigludo]

Facing/running right: b <- -> <- is wave bounce? b <- is b-turnaround?

Nah.

B turnaround is < B
B reverse is B <
Wave bounce is < B >

 

[Z4K]

I misunderstood terribly. Many thanks.

 

[Zigludo]

Just to expand a little bit more:

Since you're doing a neutralB instead of a sideB, upB, or downB, you need to reset the control stick to neutral when actually hitting B. That means that, for B turnarounds and wavebounces, you need to let the stick snap back to the center after hitting < initially

< , back to the middle, B = B turnaround neutralB
< , back to the middle, B, > = wavebounce neutralB

 

[Samurai Jack]

Probably already been said, but I think the best use of the float is to stall for a spike or edge hog.

 

[Z4K]

I've found a good application is Wizard Kicking them off the stage where you also WK off the stage, then activating Dead Man's Volley to stay in the air to read their recovery and jumping/acting accordingly.

Dash dancing and short hopping and throwing the direction of DMV around when they act too soon/too late.

Stomping at certain mid/high percents then full jump into DMV to wait for them to drop a bit to double jump and stomp/other aerial.

Down throw, hover over their tech roll, stomp as they come out of the roll, or down throw jump, hover over their getup attack, drop the stomp.

F-tilt off stage, drop off stage, hover, fair/stomp, jump, recover.

Feint an attack then retreat with DMV, aerial accordingly.

Waveland off platforms, DMV off platform to whiff incoming attack, punish.

DMV is seriously that which Ganon needed most to cover his ass from over-committing or ****ing with people's decision making process.

 

[redcometchar]

Yes, I believe the grounded version reflects frame 3 as well. The volley's smack hitbox waits until he's actually swinging his arm and cape, frames 13-16. The reflect collision matches his visual cape length pretty closely.

As you can imagine I've been busy answering questions across the board so I haven't had time to get the Dead Man's Drift / Volley post together yet but I still plan to get that done.

This thread has been dead for a while but did this ever happen?