Uses for D-tilt?

[eatthischair]

I played Lucas for quite a bit in 3.02, and have recently picked him up again after seeing his potential is still there. So far, I've gotten pretty used to all the changes and most of them are reasonable. However, I still can't find a single uses for his new down tilt.
Any thoughts?

 

[Jamwa]

use it on platforms moving towards the direction you're dtilting, you can kinda chase people with it until they CC and punish you

i havent experimented with it much though, i'd rather just mag or ftilt or fair or something

 

[D e l t a]

It took me a long while to get used to Dtilt as well. Frame 2-3 move with a better pushback at the end of the move and a weird horiztonal angle as opposed to an anti-air, free kill setup / major hitstun 'lock.' It's pretty balanced, just weird.

tl;dr use to cover gaps in pressure. Dtilt is a nice move that sets up for chase downs and can shift momentum into your favor. Very useful when properly applied, much better to use in neutral than old 3.02 Dtilt.

I find it's a relatively safe option to cover holes in Lucas' pressure and keeps him grounded. Nair -> Dtilt can do wonders against even the best crouch cancels: Yoshi, Bowser, DK, etc.

The slight knockback setups up well for Fair combo strings (Fair into Fair into Fair or Fair into Uair, etc). You get the picture.

If they're at low % and barely go anywhere, use a Nair to followup as they can buffer pulling up shield or will fast fall -> CC the next move and counter attack. Nair will either be a safe hit on shield or beat the crouch cancel. You may also opt to use a retreating DJC PKF of the enemy has already landed and is about to use a CC counterattack

At mid% you might start getting more Sweetspot Fairs if you immediately run right after they get knocked back from Dtilt.

At 50-60% or higher, Dtilt -> chase down with an approach DJC PKF and force their options. Most attacks won't followup from Dtilt when they're at this %.

 

[Scraket]

Also the weaker hit of Dtilt to dash/JC grab is (I believe) guaranteed or ridiculously close to guaranteed

 

[Kipcom]

Also the weaker hit of Dtilt to dash/JC grab is (I believe) guaranteed or ridiculously close to guaranteed

I'm pretty sure anything that involves Dash grab isn't guaranteed (or close to it). lol

 

[D e l t a]

Also the weaker hit of Dtilt to dash/JC grab is (I believe) guaranteed or ridiculously close to guaranteed

Dtilt -> grab works at low to mid % only when they go to shield or perform a CC attack with decent startup.

Dash grab is 1 frame slower than a JC grab accounting for the 3 frames added to jump cancel the grab and has absurdly larger amounts of end lag.

Attempting to theory craft here:
Dtilt (IASA is about frame 14 from what I checked in Debug mode) -> grab is a total of 10+14 frames before you can Dtilt -> grab. So the enemy takes about 10-15 frames to land after getting hit with Dtilt & has 4 frames natural landing lag.

Ergo Dtilt -> grab means they have about 10 or so frames free to act and retaliate.

 

[Scraket]

Fair enough. It seems to be pretty difficult to react to then, seeing as how I've never seen anyone avoid it.

Edit: actually a standing grab works fine. So no dash or JC grab necessary. And @ D e l t a the weaker hitbox seems to work the same at higher percents even when they're regularly standing. Not sure why you think only at low to mid percents

Sure it may not be guaranteed, but its extremely hard to react to. You guys really don't use this?

 

[D e l t a]

Fair enough. It seems to be pretty difficult to react to then, seeing as how I've never seen anyone avoid it.

Edit: actually a standing grab works fine. So no dash or JC grab necessary. And @ D e l t a the weaker hitbox seems to work the same at higher percents even when they're regularly standing. Not sure why you think only at low to mid percents

Sure it may not be guaranteed, but its extremely hard to react to. You guys really don't use this?

Standing grab works. I say dash JC grab because it's easier to buffer a dash in terms of IASA. Walking forward / attacking or whatnot works. I don't know for sure what you can use to interrupt moves outside of walk / dash / shield. Generally trying to Dtilt -> standing grab results in pulling up shield for me. Nair/Fair are my typical followups on most characters and Dtilt -> dash attack on spacies / Sheik / Falcon or other chars that give super free followups from a dash attack after 50%.

There's weird KBG on his Dtilt with the angle it sends opponents. Also, the spacing to get a weak, inner hit and follow up with a standing grab at any % isn't as consistent to me as chasing down the opponent and creating more pressure. Not to mention whiffing a grab vs a Nair is way worse. If I dash forward -> grab and get hit by some weaker, counter hit or have them buffer a roll and retreat to neutral making me miss, this is better than sitting there completely helpless trying to get a standing grab. If I miss the standing grab or accidentally pull up shield, I am dropping all the momentum I started. It's like pushing a boulder 1 inch up a hill, stopping, and having the boulder roll away.

It also depends on the % the opponent is at. If they're at low or high% I'll go for a grab, whereas mid % (40-90) is typically when my opponent will go to counter attack, rather than shield, which is when I will pressure them with a fast hit Nair / Fair.