"Up until now" - A history of overspeculation and misinterpretation

[Darkurai]

Throughout the history of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, there have been many times when the community has misunderstood something, or has just not thought it out. This thread is similar to the thread that lists all the rumors we've had, but it's different. The rumor thread lists what fans have thought up and there hasn't really been an official source for.

This thread is different. This thread is about when we took the official source, and just twisted it to a point where our intelligence had to be questioned.

Please note that I am doing this completely from memory, and I have not been a member of Smashboards since Brawl started. If I do not know of something that happened, I obviously can't include it. If I'm missing something, please let me know, preferably via PM.

Musicians = Game designers?
It was the very first update on the new Dojo. And we looked at it. And we immedietaly assumed that these people were making the game. Apparantly, Yoko Shimomura (Kingdom Hearts composer) confirmed Sora. Yeah...no. Musicians do not make the game, the make the music. And Sakurai said this. "We've asked our group of arrangement supervisors to listen to an elite selection of Nintendo music and asked them to arrange several of their favorite songs...which means there will be quite a number of songs." Take that as you will.

ZOMG RIDLEY COMPHIRMED LOLOL111!!!1
"This song appears in a variety of games in the Metroid series. It’s the theme song for Samus’s arch-nemesis, Ridley."
People looked at this quote and took it as fact that Ridley would be in the game. Again people, it's music. It doesn't mean that Ridley's in.

Who's that character?
Who gets the Pokémon reference there?
The E3 '07 trailer brought questions; at least it did on the forums I was going to at the time. We couldn't figure out who it was. We thought it could be Yoshi (who wasn't confirmed at the time), Bowser Jr., Dry Bones, a Bulbin (which it turned out to be), or even Sonic. We went crazy, and this is one that I'm guilty of.

Magic Cloud People
"In this world, trophies fight. They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence. Being turned back into a trophy, being unable to fight, is much like death. Those are the rules of this world. But...When someone...or something...breaks those rules, the world will pay a terrible price..."
Without a doubt, This World was the most confusing update in the history of the Dojo. No one understood it.

This was the picture. People looked at the clouds and thought that there were magic pictures of Bowser, Ridley, Ganon, and Master Hand. Really, it's ridiculous. Even now when we know what "This World" is, they still think that these villains are in the clouds. It's an FMV cut scene. This is one chance screenshot from it. There are no magic people in the clouds.

Petey?
Petey Pirahna was shown in one of the earliest Subspace Emissary videos. This was before bosses were confirmed for the SE. People went crazy with speculation, thinking he might even be playable (something I'm guilty of). Of course, looking back, we really should've thought of this.

Heroes always arrive late.
Everyone thought about this quote. No one knows much about what Sakurai was referring to. I personally think he was just referring to K.K. Slider's late entrance into the song, but it could be anything. People think it's referring to Meta Knight. Some people think it's supposed to hint at the Subspace Emissary. We're just not sure.

Customized Movesets?
As per request, I'm not going to give out much information about this one time. But rest assured, those who experienced it remember it and will never forget it. I experienced it myself, and I really, REALLY wish I hadn't wasted my time there.

Is it possible he could surpass even Ness!?
On Lucas' update, people saw this sentence and thought Ness was confirmed now. Apparantly, Ness is like a hero in Mother 3, with a statue and everything. Lucas is the main character in the game, trying to live up to him.

Aww.
Gray Fox. "It makes you want to use him as a playable character." People looked at that and that playable Assist Trophies were confirmed, despite the fact that the VERY FIRST ASSIST TROPHY UPDATE explicitly stated that you cannot play as Assist Trophies.

Up Until Now
Up until now. UP UNTIL NOW. The day the Smashboards shook. People couldn't believe it. They went into denial. Was Ness returning? We couldn't tell anymore. All evidence pointed against him. But people used online translators that apparantly showed that the Japanese site did not say "Up until now". But online translators suck. Our local human translator, SamuraiPanda, confirmed it. The American site has a perfect translation.

Starting Roster?

Thank god it's not. Recent evidence has shown that. I still give props to SamuraiPanda for thinking it out though. He really made me think this might've been it. But there were so many people that looked at it and immedietaly thought "ZOMG A ROSTER THIS MUST BE IT". SamuraiPanda actually thought long and hard about it, so I give props to him for that. But too many people thought it was the starting roster simply because they showed it.

Wario Alone
Wario alone is special? Only he has an alternate costume apparantly. This is the same problem as with "Up Until Now". People simply refused to believe it. But it's true. Translations cannot save you now.




Well, that's it. Our history of idiocy. This list is probably incomplete. If I've left something out, please let me know.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

I don't think your argument against the cloud people idea is very compelling. I'm not saying it's true, but you don't really disprove it.

 

[KirbyForAll]

Looking back, it really is funny all of the things people assumed

 

[lavamage]

Nice list you got there

 

[Agosta44]

The Wario arguement is weak. How do you know he didnt mean he was the only one with an Alt costume that had Alt colors? You don't.
besides that, great topic.

 

[Stratocaster]

"Heros arrive late" was just what Sakurai said the Animal Crossing song made him think of. Why would it mean anything besides that, its just the background music for a stage. Its not like everything Sakurai says is a subtle hint we should analyze. Some people....

 

[Hippochinfat]

Ness is out.

 

[mushroomedmario]

I don't think your argument against the cloud people idea is very compelling. I'm not saying it's true, but you don't really disprove it.

agreed, what makes that so untrue?

 

[Dreamking]

Thanks for the list. It heightens the importance that until there is official word(In Brawl's case, word from Dojo or stuff seen in videos) all we can do is speculate.

 

[Darkurai]

Ness is out.

Aren't you banned?

 

[DeuceBlade]

Up until now, and Alone are very different, comparing them is just dumb.

 

[Jeo]

What about the Smash Ball? A lot of people thought it would only be available once per battle but what Sakurai meant was the Final Smash could only be used once per Smash Ball.

"The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed."

 

[MKDSPoKE]

Nice thread

 

[DeuceBlade]

What about the Smash Ball? A lot of people thought it would only be available once per battle but what Sakurai meant was the Final Smash could only be used once per Smash Ball.

"The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed."

Quoted for truth.

 

[War Raichu]

I'm still not willing to believe "Up until now" and "Wario alone is special". They're just words that could mean anything. Until there is visual proof that Ness isn't in the game and that Wario is the only one with alternate costumes, it means nothing, and everybody is jumping to wild conclusions over it.

 

[Twisted]

Oh God, I remember the "people in the clouds" idea. That was so ridiculous

 

[Hippochinfat]

Aren't you banned?

I was banned for a day because Youko was being a spaz.

Anyways....

Not only did Sakurai say "There has been a character named Ness who has appeared in the smash brothers series up until now" but Sakurai wanted to replace Ness with Lucas way back in Melee.

If that isn't enough proof, Lucas shares alot of Ness's moves.

He has Ness's:
Fair (Lucas update)
Dair (Lucas update)
Bair (Lucas special moves)
Dash attack (Pictochat)
Up special (Lucas special moves)
Down special ( Lucas special moves)
Side special (Lucas special moves)
SORT OF his neutral special (Lucas special moves)
Forward smash (Subspace emissary movie)

He probaly has even more off Ness moves but here's ones that he has that Ness didn't have:
Down smash (Lucas special moves)
Up tilt (Lucas special moves)
Nair (Home run contest)
Uair? (Subspace emissary movie)

He's got alot more of Ness's moves then his own (At least from what we know now)

Ness is out. You Ness fanboys have to realize that.

Also Samuraipanda's theory was beyond stupid.

 

[gaph2000]

Why does everyone keep saying there arent any cloud people? You can clearly see Bill Cosby in the Clouds!

 

[Tinkerer]

I'm still not willing to believe "Up until now" and "Wario alone is special". They're just words that could mean anything. Until there is visual proof that Ness isn't in the game and that Wario is the only one with alternate costumes, it means nothing, and everybody is jumping to wild conclusions over it.

Since when is a conclusion based on official, from-the-source information a wild one?

 

[DeuceBlade]

I'm still not willing to believe "Up until now" and "Wario alone is special". They're just words that could mean anything. Until there is visual proof that Ness isn't in the game and that Wario is the only one with alternate costumes, it means nothing, and everybody is jumping to wild conclusions over it.

Up until now.. ok

Wario Alone.. denial.

 

[verditude]

Up until now means nothing.

"Up until now" and "Wario alone is special" are completely different. Wario's actually excludes alt costumes. Ness's says nothing. Here's why:

The "up until now" argument is stupid. When Sakurai announces a character, he does so using language as if the character's inclusion in Brawl was simultaneous with his announcement.

An example is PT. Sakurai said "The Pokemon Trainer has finally arrived," which sounds like PT was not in Brawl untl he was announced. Ness has not been announced, so, in Sakurai-speak, Ness is not in Brawl.

So, when he says Ness has appeared up until now, he means Ness hasn't been announced yet, so he's not in yet. It doesn't preclude the possibility of him being put in (read: announced) later.

 

[Hippochinfat]

Why does everyone keep saying there arent any cloud people? You can clearly see Bill Cosby in the Clouds!

Nice one.

10char

 

[xbrinkx]

Lol, there was a similar one to the Cloud Theory. You see, in the newest SSE vid you can pause it at a certain time and when blown up you can see Captain Falcon. It turned out it was just a transition from the primids to Mario which blurred into Captain Falcon. It was even shown on Brawl central which I don't get. Really silly theory.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

"Up until now" and "Wario alone is special" are completely different. Wario's actually excludes alt costumes. Ness's says nothing. Here's why:

The "up until now" argument is stupid. When Sakurai announces a character, he does so using language as if the character's inclusion in Brawl was simultaneous with his announcement.

An example is PT. Sakurai said "The Pokemon Trainer has finally arrived," which sounds like PT was not in Brawl untl he was announced. Ness has not been announced, so, in Sakurai-speak, Ness is not in Brawl.

So, when he says Ness has appeared up until now, he means Ness hasn't been announced yet, so he's not in yet. It doesn't preclude the possibility of him being put in (read: announced) later.

Actually, I think the PT thing sounds more like, he has finally arrived to the Smash series. "Up until now" messages have always been used for some kind of change in the game. Ness being out is considered a change, but I don't beleive that the statement alone deconfirms him.

 

[Lupo Aro]

I think the with the Ridley music thing, people were saying the name of the music confirmed him as a boss.

 

[Kowz]

Really nice job on the list , but you forgot the one about Cap'n Falcon being in the subspace movie. Looking back the one about the clouds (which I semi believed) was ridiculously stupid...

 

[susu_atari]

People will still argue against these points. Anyone caught doing so should be banned from creating threads forever.

 

[omfgomfg]

Who's that character?
Who gets the Pokémon reference there?
The E3 '07 trailer brought questions; at least it did on the forums I was going to at the time. We couldn't figure out who it was. We thought it could be Yoshi (who wasn't confirmed at the time), Bowser Jr., Dry Bones, a Bulbin (which it turned out to be), or even Sonic. We went crazy, and this is one that I'm guilty of.

LOL
i laughed

 

[FlipTroopa]

"Heroes always arrive late" refers to shows like Kamen Rider and Super Sentai, which Sakurai was very likely a huge fan of as a kid. "Go Go K.K. Rider" is meant to be a spoof of those sorts of "Power Rangers" shows in Japan. And the heroes ALWAYS showed up just in the nick of time. Nothing more than a funny cultural jab from Sakurai.

 

[Dubyah8r]

I still see the cloud thing. I'm a firm believer.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Ok.

I'm not saying i believe these,

But the OP is going to feel silly if Ness gets confirmed

or alternate costumes gets confirmed.

I don't really care either way though

 

[Lone Spectator]

Using my small knowledge of foreign languages, I looked in the Italian and Spanish sites of Brawl for the "up until now" part, to make sure it wasn't a translation error.

Italian: "Lucas è molto simile a Ness, un personaggio che finora è sempre apparso nella serie di Smash Bros."

Translation: "Lucas is very similar to Ness, a character that so far has always appeared in the Smash Bros. series."

Spanish: "Seguramente os acordaréis de Ness, un personaje que apareció en anteriores ediciones de Smash Bros. Pues bien, Lucas es muy parecido a él. "

Translation: "I'm pretty sure* you remember Ness, a character that appeared in previous editions of Smash Bros. Well, Lucas is very similir to him."

*It's not the exact translation. i didn't know how to pass "Seguramente", to english( I would like to make it clear that I'm not american, I am brazilian).

I think the italian version basically removes him from Brawl, and the spanish one is more ambiguous.

 

[BiskeTheBeast]

'' I'm pretty sure'' is a great way to pass ''seguramente'' to english, im spanish so i can tell u

BTW i can clearly see ridley and bowser in those clouds >.< i have great imagination

 

[Lone Spectator]

'' I'm pretty sure'' is a great way to pass ''seguramente'' to english, im spanish so i can tell u

BTW i can clearly see ridley and bowser in those clouds >.< i have great imagination

Everyone can, but the people who think it's a conspiracy have really, nothing to do.

Tanks for the translation tips.

 

[ricydafrog]

the cloud theory still has yet to be disproven
is it wrong that i believe in it?

 

[XACE-K]

I told one of my friends about the composers and when I said somebody from Kingdom Hearts was working on the music,he thought Sora was automatically in. I then told him he isn't in and he still doesn't believe me.Great thread by the way Darkurai.

 

[BiskeTheBeast]

Everyone can, but the people who think it's a conspiracy have really, nothing to do.

Tanks for the translation tips.

np

lol @ conspiracy xD

 

[Darkurai]

Ok.

I'm not saying i believe these,

But the OP is going to feel silly if Ness gets confirmed

or alternate costumes gets confirmed.

I don't really care either way though

I'd love for alternate costumes to be in, but really, Sakurai has explicitly said no.

Same for Ness, except I don't really care either way whether he gets in.

 

[Sola]

Most of these topics have been discussed to death, so I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to talk about it, but I do think people tend to go overboard in terms of analyzing the specific words used in updates.

For example, the issue of Ness. I think the revealing of Lucas's moveset nearly confirmed the exclusion of Ness, and there is a valid argument to be made there, but I don't understand why people always bring up "up until now" as the killer. Take the following:

Speaker A: "Are you doing anything tomorrow? My car is in the shop, and I may need a ride to the train station at 8. Would you be able to help?"
Speaker B: "Well, I've been doing volunteer work every Monday up until now... Can you be ready an hour early? That way I can drop you off on the way and still have time to spare."

In this case it indicates the speaker has been doing it every week for a while, but with the added implication that they might skip this week if it's important enough.

Or just the simple sentence "I've bought groceries every Monday up until now, so I see no reason to stop."

It doesn't indicate that the speaker will stop, but instead says that it's being called into question whether the action will continue.

Similarly, this wording seems to me more like something specifically chosen to avoid confirming whether Ness is in, rather than say "he isn't in." And I think it's silly to worry about the exact wording anyway.

As I said, I don't see him as being playable due to the moveset problems, but I don't understand the fixation on wordplay and semantics in the updates when the content is much more of an argument.

As for the rest, people like to speculate. It's fun when it's lighthearted, though people can get silly at times. It doesn't matter in the long run, so it's nothing to get worked up about even when people jump to conclusions a little too readily.

 

[burrito]

"up until now" simply does not "deconfirm" Ness. It is an including statement, not an excluding. There are many better reasons to believe that Ness is probably not returning.